Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.[W:963:1176:1448]

[Glen Contrarian]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

I think h is saying that if we don't pay taxes and taxes and taxes to fund the have nots, they will revolt and kill us. IT is consistent with a prior post of his where he argues the rich should be forced to kneel and grovel before the masses to keep the wealth they own lest the masses kill them and take the riches

Ya just don't get it, do ya? You're focused on that one tree, and because of that, you can't see the whole forest around you.

And we go back to the default questions that no conservatives have yet been able to answer: if the social safety nets found in ALL first-world democracies are SO bad for a nation's economy, then why is it that all first-world nations REMAIN in first-world status even after ALL of us have had these comprehensive social safety nets for a minimum of a half century - and in several cases significantly longer than that? And if weak government, low effective taxes, and little or no regulation is the best way for a nation to have economic prosperity, then why is it that ALL nations with those systems are third-world nations and show no sign of achieving first-world status in the foreseeable future?

If conservative economic dogma were true, then it would be the nations with weak governments, low effective taxes, and little or no regulation that would be first-world nations...and those heavily socialized democracies (like our own) would be spiraling down to the economic dustbin of history. But we're not. The state of the world's economies is precisely the opposite of what conservative economic dogma says it oughta be, given our respective economic systems.

In other words, TD, the state of all the world's nations should tell you something: that while it sounds really nice and ethical and logical to only have the same rate of tax for everyone, and that no one should be able to get what they can't personally pay for at the moment...the REALITY is that such an approach to a nation's economy is NOT the most effective way to build a prosperous national economy.

 

[Federalist]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Who said anything about initiating violence?

When the government robs Peter to pay Paul, the government is initiating violence against Peter.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Well imagine that, Krugman disagreeing with someone critical of FDR. I'm shocked I tell you, just shocked.

Try reading the book and making your own judgement. Better yet, read the book so you know what you're taking about.

Reading the criticism of it it hardly seems worth both the time and money. When highly respected people who know infinitely more about it than I do find basic fault with it, I in turn respect their perspective.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate / UCLA Newsroom

Hindsight is 20/20.

The Cole nonsense has been around for a while and surfaces anytime a right libertarian needs some pseudo authority to bash FDR and put forth the myth that he prolonged the Depression. Its long ago been debunked by almost everyone outside of far right circles.

 

[Federalist]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

The Cole nonsense has been around for a while and surfaces anytime a right libertarian needs some pseudo authority to bash FDR and put forth the myth that he prolonged the Depression. Its long ago been debunked by almost everyone outside of far right circles.

No way. Those who want to interfere with property rights and individual liberty claim that doing so doesn't destroy economies? Really?

 

[haymarket]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

When the government robs Peter to pay Paul, the government is initiating violence against Peter.

Only if one has a homemade definition of VIOLENCE that bears no real world relationship to what we know it to be.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

No way.

... way ....

 

[Federalist]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Only if one has a homemade definition of VIOLENCE that bears no real world relationship to what we know it to be.

Only a statist such as yourself could hide his head in the sand and pretend that the government doesn't rely on violence.

 

[sawdust]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Reading the criticism of it it hardly seems worth both the time and money. When highly respected people who know infinitely more about it than I do find basic fault with it, I in turn respect their perspective.

Please do yourself a favor. Always believe what your masters tell you. Know your limits. Don't investigate what they tell you and develop your own opinions. You will lead a long and happy life.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

No way.

... way ....

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

And that's the stimulative efforts the Fed had to implement since the GOP is so obstinately against any further Keynesian stimulus, much less any jobs bills that don't consist almost solely of tax cuts and deregulation.

I have no problem with that policy except that it disadvantages savers to the benefit of borrowers.eace

 

[jonny5]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

I think Im just going to stop paying federal taxes. Lock me up if you want to.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Only a statist such as yourself could hide his head in the sand and pretend that the government doesn't rely on violence.

we have been through this before and that is why I know full well that your homemade definition of VIOLENCE is has no relationship to the real world we live in and the normal powers government has.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Please do yourself a favor. Always believe what your masters tell you. Know your limits. Don't investigate what they tell you and develop your own opinions. You will lead a long and happy life.

Just because you may kowtow to your own masters does not mean others have the same situation. Know your own damn limits.

 

[sawdust]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Just because you may kowtow to your own masters does not mean others have the same situation. Know your own damn limits.

You are talking about a book you haven't read and know nothing about other than what Krugman told you. If I were in your position, I'd keep my yap shut because I don't like talking about things I know nothing about. Buy hey, that's just me. I like to form intelligent opinions.

 

[Federalist]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

we have been through this before and that is why I know full well that your homemade definition of VIOLENCE is has no relationship to the real world we live in and the normal powers government has.

You're kidding yourself. The government uses violence (or the threat of violence) to enforce its income redistribution schemes. People don't do what the government says just because it asks nicely, you know.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

You are talking about a book you haven't read and know nothing about other than what Krugman told you. If I were in your position, I'd keep my yap shut because I don't like talking about things I know nothing about. Buy hey, that's just me. I like to form intelligent opinions.

Take your own advice and keep your yap shut then.

News flash for you: Neither I nor anybody else in this world is obligated to read any right wing polemic designed to give aid and comfort to the True Believers who are already prostrating themselves before the same altar. I have read extensively about FDR and the New Deal and studied it in classes. I hardly think some darling of the conservative press is going to knock me off my feet with the same crap we have heard for quite a while now and has been thoroughly discredited. When your darling author makes economic claims and the Nobel Prize winner in Economics says she does not know what she is talking about - I take notice.

Its too bad you don't.

 

[sawdust]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Take your own advice and keep your yap shut then.

News flash for you: Neither I nor anybody else in this world is obligated to read any right wing polemic designed to give aid and comfort to the True Believers who are already prostrating themselves before the same altar. I have read extensively about FDR and the New Deal and studied it in classes. I hardly think some darling of the conservative press is going to knock me off my feet with the same crap we have heard for quite a while now and has been thoroughly discredited. When your darling author makes economic claims and the Nobel Prize winner in Economics says she does not know what she is talking about - I take notice.

Its too bad you don't.

I read the book and can comment on it with some knowledge of what it says. You on the other hand have nothing but your preconceptions. I've read Krugman. I think he deserves a Nobel about as much as Obama. Your standards are too low with respect to who you admire. What economic claims were made in the book that you personally agree with? Get back to me after you've read it.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

You're kidding yourself. The government uses violence (or the threat of violence) to enforce its income redistribution schemes. People don't do what the government says just because it asks nicely, you know.

When you refer to THE GOVERNMENT - you of course mean every single government in the entire history of the world that has any authority and enforces the law?

 

[haymarket]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

I read the book and can comment on it with some knowledge of what it says. You on the other hand have nothing but your preconceptions. I've read Krugman. I think he deserves a Nobel about as much as Obama. Your standards are too low with respect to who you admire. What economic claims were made in the book that you personally agree with? Get back to me after you've read it.

Got it. Krugman does not worship the same gods before the same altar as you prostrate yourself in front of side by side with your fellow True believers.

 

[Federalist]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

When you refer to THE GOVERNMENT - you of course mean every single government in the entire history of the world that has any authority and enforces the law?

Precisely. All governments use violence. The good ones use violence to protect the person, property, and individual liberty of the citizen. The bad ones use violence to loot and enslave the citizens.

 

[sawdust]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Got it. Krugman does not worship the same gods before the same altar as you prostrate yourself in front of side by side with your fellow True believers.

No, I don't think Keynsians have the right approach to building a stable and healthy economy. I dislike big government and central planning. The difference between you and I is that I disagree with Krugman after actually reading some of what he's written so I've been able to form my own opinions. Feel free to read book reviews rather than books though. It will save you lots of time and you won't have your head filled with useless information.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Precisely. All governments use violence. The good ones use violence to protect the person, property, and individual liberty of the citizen. The bad ones use violence to loot and enslave the citizens.

So - in your world - governments which tax their citizens and then collect the taxes and prosecute those who do not pay are BAD ONES?

 

[Federalist]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

So - in your world - governments which tax their citizens and then collect the taxes and prosecute those who do not pay are BAD ONES?

Nope, but a government that robs Peter to pay Paul is.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

No, I don't think Keynsians have the right approach to building a stable and healthy economy. I dislike big government and central planning.

Of course you don't. You don't even have to explain it. You are a self confessed right libertarian and the Von Mises Institutute has been heard to withdraw that label from any who fail to uphold the party line.

since you are so well read, what was your opinion of the multi-volume Arthur Schlesinger work on FDR and the New Deal particularly how he traced the origins of the Depression into the post WW1 period and the ills that beset the nation when FDR took over?