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Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.[W:963:1176:1448]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Of course, of course!

All the people who are starving to death in Africa, all the people who are living on two dollars a day because there's no jobs to be had and every bit of their money goes towards food...yeah, that was all because each individual made 'bad decisions'. And here in America, when we were bleeding 800,000 jobs per month, that was all the INDIVIDUALS' fault - they must have somehow made 'bad decisions', because Thou Shalt Not Blame corporate malfeasance, oh, no!

Guy, when people make bad decisions, they generally DO pay. Problem is, no matter what YOU do or don't do...you pay ANYWAY. You pay to stop the people from becoming homeless...or you pay for the consequences of them being homeless (and yes, it does affect you).

politicians generally do what they think will keep them in office. I do not think for a minute welfare socialists want to eliminate poverty or make people independent and able to fully function without government help since such a scenario would make welfare socialist politicians superfluous
 
Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

if others make poor choices why should we have to pay for those bad decisions

Its not a matter of SHOULD we pay.. its a matter of how much. That's the downside of living and participating in a society.

That's the real question...

For example.. the child next to my son in school has a dipshoot for parents. They don't feed her, or cloth her properly.. (cripes the kid was at the bus stop wearing flip flops in 14 degree weather.)

Now society is going to pay for those parents poor choices.. there is no way around it... the question is how much?

Do we decide to give her free lunches in school, provide a backpack with food for home, provide her with donated shoes, and help her get medical care through Medicaid.

Or should we say screw her.. not my deal... and then my son gets sick because she is constantly sick and transmits it to him and the rest of his classmates, My son;s education suffers because her lack of nutrition decreases her attention span, decreases her learning ability and increases her behaviors..
and eventually, her continued issues cost us in the form of another prison inmate?

As an aside.. I think its ironic that folks state that they believe in charity.. and then grouse about why they should be charitable..
 
Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Y'know, there's something I found in my travels around this world: cultures and governments may be very different, and individuals vary wildly, but generally speaking, people are pretty much the same all over the world. That realization was what helped me to unlearn the racism I'd been taught in my youth.

So what that means, guy, is that no matter where you go - democracy or communist, third-world or first-world, blue state or red state - you get the same general mix of people: many will be hard-working, some won't be; most mothers still work their fingers to the bone to raise their kids properly; most guys, when they get a chance, sit down at bull sessions, each declaring to the others how to fix all the problems in their family/community/country/world.

Just. like. here.

The other thing one learns overseas - if one really gets to know the people and the way they live - is that if they had the same opportunities we do, they'd do at least as well as we do...which is why so many immigrants do so well here in America (like my wife, the former illegal immigrant who's now providing jobs for other people).

No, guy, the people living on less than two dollars a day don't CHOOSE to do that - all too often, 'choice' is a luxury they don't have. Speaking of which, if you get to know immigrants, the one thing that many immigrants will tell you they find is most daunting about living in America is...we have TOO MANY choices. Where they come from, there's all too often no choice to go wherever one wants, when one wants, to do pretty much whatever one wants (as long as it's legal).

Imagine that: the hardest thing for them to get used to is having so many choices - sorta boggles the mind, doesn't it? "Choices" isn't something they have much of in their home countries. And yet you claim they CHOOSE to be poor.

Ah I see. Im a racist.
 
Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Of course, of course! All those 800,000 people who were losing jobs every month ALL KNEW when they had bought their houses in the years previously that they'd lose those jobs, huh! They ALL KNEW that we'd have the worst economic crash since the Great Depression just around the corner, huh?

"Okay, Martha, we're buying this house we can afford pretty easily on this middle-class salary I'm making now...and I'll just ignore the warnings of those liberal fear-mongerers who are claiming that by repealing Glass-Steagal, we're setting ourselves up for economic disaster. Those liberals are wrong about everything anyhow. And Bush says they'll find those WMD's in Iraq any day now."

Maybe theyre racists too. Have they traveled the world like you?
 
Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

politicians generally do what they think will keep them in office. I do not think for a minute welfare socialists want to eliminate poverty or make people independent and able to fully function without government help since such a scenario would make welfare socialist politicians superfluous

Of course you don't think so. It's normal for people to assign evil motives to the people they don't like.

BTW, you never did say why it is that all the most successful democracies are the oh-so-socialized democracies that you seem to think are evil/tyrannical/whatever...while the nations that have weak governments, low effective taxes, and little or no regulations are ALL third-world nations....
 
Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

I think you want communism, most working Americans aren't interested in what you're selling

That's all you have to bring to the table, "Communism"?

Communism is state control of all means of production. It has nothing, whatsoever, to do with progressive taxation.
 
Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

we know that the war on poverty has redistributed trillions of dollars, created a permanent class of dembots and that SS is close to failing
No, that's what you think. It is not what we know.

The welfare system that is in your mind hasn't existed since the 1990s. Now, welfare is temporary and usually accompanied by work requirements.

The majority of SNAP recipients are children or elderly–and many work. The same is true for Medicaid recipients.
 
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Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

That's all you have to bring to the table, "Communism"?

Communism is state control of all means of production. It has nothing, whatsoever, to do with progressive taxation.

and forced commerce with ACA, keep thinking that
 
Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

if others make poor choices why should we have to pay for those bad decisions

What part of "you pay anyway" do you not understand? You will either pay to keep those people out of grinding poverty...or you will pay for the results of those people being left in grinding poverty...

...and yeah, the costs are certainly extended to you.
 
Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

and forced commerce with ACA, keep thinking that
Gee, your right.

Mandating that private individuals to buy private insurance contracts from private insurance companies is Communism. Communism I tell you!
 
Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

politicians generally do what they think will keep them in office. I do not think for a minute welfare socialists want to eliminate poverty or make people independent and able to fully function without government help since such a scenario would make welfare socialist politicians superfluous

Really? So...why is it then that ALL the most prosperous, most successful democracies on the planet have the exactly the type of social safety net that you think is so terrible for a nation? Has it ever occurred to you that maybe, just maybe the function of an economy, of maximizing employment and minimizing poverty - on a national scale isn't as simplistic as you make it out to be?

Think about it, guy - YOUR theory of how things oughta be, is NOT found in any of the most prosperous democracies on the planet...but IS found in almost any third-world country you care to name.

In other words, in the REAL world, your. way. does. not. work. And the way you love to hate...DOES work. And all your coulda/woulda/shoulda proclamations can't change that fact.
 
Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Really? So...why is it then that ALL the most prosperous, most successful democracies on the planet have the exactly the type of social safety net that you think is so terrible for a nation? Has it ever occurred to you that maybe, just maybe the function of an economy, of maximizing employment and minimizing poverty - on a national scale isn't as simplistic as you make it out to be?

Think about it, guy - YOUR theory of how things oughta be, is NOT found in any of the most prosperous democracies on the planet...but IS found in almost any third-world country you care to name.

In other words, in the REAL world, your. way. does. not. work. And the way you love to hate...DOES work. And all your coulda/woulda/shoulda proclamations can't change that fact.

so you are claiming we would be LESS prosperous if we got rid of the buy the vote scheme" It works for politicians and that is why it exists
 
Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

What part of "you pay anyway" do you not understand? You will either pay to keep those people out of grinding poverty...or you will pay for the results of those people being left in grinding poverty...

...and yeah, the costs are certainly extended to you.


so I guess you cannot quite figure out--we SHOULD NOT HAVE TO PAY either way by force of government
 
Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

No, that's what you think. It is not what we know.

The welfare system that is in your mind hasn't existed since the 1990s. Now, welfare is temporary and usually accompanied by work requirements.

The majority of SNAP recipients are children or elderly–and many work. The same is true for Medicaid recipients.

current dembot creation systems encourage the unwilling and unable to breed like minks. we need to put an end to that
 
Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Gee, your right.

Mandating that private individuals to buy private insurance contracts from private insurance companies is Communism. Communism I tell you!

forced commerce is what it is, sorry it is above your head
 
Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

You asked "What is the money used for?". I answered. Now you're asking "What would the people have used it for?".

And the answer's the same, for it applies to them as it did to you in the earlier reply:

"Have you driven on our roads, walked on our sidewalks? Have you drunk our clean water or breathed our clean air? Have you walked in our national parks or flown in our very, very safe airspace? Have you had flu shots or had to turn in meat that the government had found was contaminated? Have you served in our military? Because you've sure as heck benefited from the protection we get from our military."

Look, guy, you're squirming in your argument because you know you've got nothing. You know that not only can you not back up your claims, but you cannot refute mine.

Several years ago, I wrote an article that attacked conservative claims - it was a really good article, I thought. Then a particularly strong conservative thinker blew my logic to bits. I had to admit that he was right and I was flat wrong, and I was a better man for it. And I've always liked and respected him for proving me wrong as well.

The reason I'm pointing this out to you is that it takes guts to admit when oneself is wrong. It's not a matter of winning or losing - it's a matter of removal of ignorance, or insisting on keeping that ignorance. If you prove me wrong on a matter, I'll be sincerely grateful to you for helping me to get rid of some of my ignorance. But you'll find that most people who debate politics (or religion) find that it's easier for them to protect their personal pride by refusing to admit error than it is for them to admit that they, too, are human and are sometimes wrong.

In other words, the only thing wrong with being wrong, is a person insisting on remaining wrong when that person has been shown that he is wrong. Personally I'm not afraid of being wrong - I'm only afraid of insisting on remaining wrong when someone proves me wrong.

How about you?

My question pertains to what people would have done with their income if the government didn't take it against their will.
 
Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

It's already in the Constitution, in the Commerce Clause. "The clause states that the United States Congress shall have power "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes.""

"Among", not "between". The difference between the two meanings is quite significant.

I already told you what it meant. I'm not interested in word play where you try to find a word to twist to your advantage.
 
Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Maybe theyre racists too. Have they traveled the world like you?

Why do you bring the 'racist' line into this argument? That's YOUR doing, not mine.

But FYI, all over the world there are racists...and just as everywhere else, the racism by the dominant group is the most effective - and thus most egregious - racism...which is why in America, racism by whites really is worse than that by other races...just as in China, the racism by the Han is worse than that by other races there.
 
Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Why do you bring the 'racist' line into this argument? That's YOUR doing, not mine.

But FYI, all over the world there are racists...and just as everywhere else, the racism by the dominant group is the most effective - and thus most egregious - racism...which is why in America, racism by whites really is worse than that by other races...just as in China, the racism by the Han is worse than that by other races there.

why is that? black on white racism tends to be far more violent than the reverse
 
Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

if others make poor choices why should we have to pay for those bad decisions

because it is in your own self interest.
 
Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

because it is in your own self interest.

No it is NOT in my self interest to support a program that creates dependent teat suckers who vote for Democrat Lords
 
Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

current dembot creation systems encourage the unwilling and unable to breed like minks. we need to put an end to that
Where is your evidence? Please show facts not your opinion maskarading as fact.
 
Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

because it is in your own self interest.

It is? How is it in my self interest?
 
Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Where is your evidence? Please show facts not your opinion maskarading as fact.

I am curious

Do you DENY my assertion

or are you upset that it is true and try to undercut it?
 
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