Progressive Economics = Progressive Culture (1 Viewer)

[Dans La Lune]

The notion that Dems, Progressives or Cultural Libs have gone too far to the Left is not borne out by history. In many (most cases), previous generations were more culturally liberal. The 1960s, 1970s and 1980s were eras of extreme progressive ideology. Guess who noticed that? Conservatives. The Powell Memo was basically a manifesto on how to shift the culture back to the right post-FDR. Notice what happens as the 1980s come to a close. The culture becomes more conservative. Neoliberalism fully takes hold. Dems move far to the right on policy. The standard of living starts to drop. One household income can no longer sustain a middle class family. Wealth starts to accrue rapidly to the top as more and more of progressive era policies and protections evaporate. Even though crime declines, incarcerations increase with the Broken Windows policies (Note: the drop in crime is not due to policing, but the decrease in use of lead).

My belief is that we are default progressive-leaning by virtue of our empathy. We start to turn on each other when economics begin to squeeze us. This is how the right-wing gain power. The cultural divides, once trivial, become the main focus of politics. Conservative cultural issues just don't resonate under progressive economic policies. Even on issues like abortion, most religious institutions were ambivalent. It was not really a big deal for them. No one cared about drag or even transgender issues until like 2018.

 

[iliveonramen]

The idea that the left is too far left is a crock of shit for anything with a brain.

The "leftist" party has been dominated by technocrats and centrists which have always pushed moderate to center-right economic policies. The right thinks things the "battle" over what bathroom a trans person uses is some massive blinking sign of this country going "too far left". The reality, the tech companies still push to replace real jobs with a "gig" economy, the wealthy and corporations pay less and less taxes, and wealth is accumulating among a smaller and smaller group of people.

 

[Phys251]

The notion that Dems, Progressives or Cultural Libs have gone too far to the Left is not borne out by history. In many (most cases), previous generations were more culturally liberal. The 1960s, 1970s and 1980s were eras of extreme progressive ideology. Guess who noticed that? Conservatives. The Powell Memo was basically a manifesto on how to shift the culture back to the right post-FDR. Notice what happens as the 1980s come to a close. The culture becomes more conservative. Neoliberalism fully takes hold. Dems move far to the right on policy. The standard of living starts to drop. One household income can no longer sustain a middle class family. Wealth starts to accrue rapidly to the top as more and more of progressive era policies and protections evaporate. Even though crime declines, incarcerations increase with the Broken Windows policies (Note: the drop in crime is not due to policing, but the decrease in use of lead).

My belief is that we are default progressive-leaning by virtue of our empathy. We start to turn on each other when economics begin to squeeze us. This is how the right-wing gain power. The cultural divides, once trivial, become the main focus of politics. Conservative cultural issues just don't resonate under progressive economic policies. Even on issues like abortion, most religious institutions were ambivalent. It was not really a big deal for them. No one cared about drag or even transgender issues until like 2018.

Cultural divides were trivial in the mid-20th century?

 

[Michael Cole]

How were the '80s economically progressive? How are you defining the term?

 

[Fletch]

The idea that the left is too far left is a crock of shit for anything with a brain.

The "leftist" party has been dominated by technocrats and centrists which have always pushed moderate to center-right economic policies. The right thinks things the "battle" over what bathroom a trans person uses is some massive blinking sign of this country going "too far left". The reality, the tech companies still push to replace real jobs with a "gig" economy, the wealthy and corporations pay less and less taxes, and wealth is accumulating among a smaller and smaller group of people.

When does the left go too far left and at what point will you ever acknowledge that it has?

 

[iliveonramen]

When does the left go too far left and at what point will you ever acknowledge that it has?

"too far left" compared to what? Why is it my job to identify what "too far left" means, when people are claiming that it's already "too far left".

Political extremism to me is "too far" when it starts to become anti-democratic. When the ideology or cult of personality trumps adherence to the idea of democracy. Compared to other advanced countries, the US isn't left, it's right. Compared to the new deal and war on poverty legislation, things like Obamacare were rightwing ideas.

 

[OrphanSlug]

It is intentionally revisionist history to suggest "cultural divides" were ever "trivial," and worse to target just about anything post-FDR to current. It is also revisionist history to suggest progressive culturalism is the same today as it was back then or even just as it was 20 years ago.

Starting off a thread like that suggests intention to be disingenuous, if not completely dishonest, about all this. Especially with the bit about the 1980s being anywhere near the timeframes of the social evolutions of the 1960s and 1970s as characterized by "extreme progressive ideology."

It is just nonsense, same with using that as a reason to suggest the pulse of the nation is more liberal than it is. Or would be if Democrats would be more liberal, some suggestion that a triple down on progressivism would unify enough of the nation when that ideology went out of their way to tell the majority of the nation they do not belong. And on that point progressivism got so entrenched in cultural liberalism to the point of identity politics being key that they literally told far too many people they are all prejudiced in some regard.

So go more left is the answer? Are you trying to ensure independents, moderates, and other non-party loyalists suddenly become loyal to Republicans? The political pendulum handing power back to Democrats is the likely conclusion, not some quadruple down on progressive economic and social policies as if everyone progressives hate will suddenly identify with them.

 

[NWRatCon]

The notion that Dems, Progressives or Cultural Libs have gone too far to the Left is not borne out by history. In many (most cases), previous generations were more culturally liberal. The 1960s, 1970s and 1980s were eras of extreme progressive ideology. Guess who noticed that? Conservatives. The Powell Memo was basically a manifesto on how to shift the culture back to the right post-FDR. Notice what happens as the 1980s come to a close. The culture becomes more conservative. Neoliberalism fully takes hold. Dems move far to the right on policy. The standard of living starts to drop. One household income can no longer sustain a middle class family. Wealth starts to accrue rapidly to the top as more and more of progressive era policies and protections evaporate. Even though crime declines, incarcerations increase with the Broken Windows policies (Note: the drop in crime is not due to policing, but the decrease in use of lead).

My belief is that we are default progressive-leaning by virtue of our empathy. We start to turn on each other when economics begin to squeeze us. This is how the right-wing gain power. The cultural divides, once trivial, become the main focus of politics. Conservative cultural issues just don't resonate under progressive economic policies. Even on issues like abortion, most religious institutions were ambivalent. It was not really a big deal for them. No one cared about drag or even transgender issues until like 2018.

People forget that we were established to be a progressive nation. Whenever we forget that, the country declines.

 

[Greenbeard]

 

[Buster Keaton]

When the Progressives get everything their way, the middle class flees.
This is why the progressive states of CA, IL and NY have lost congressional seats.
This is why Joepedo Biden allowed 7 million illegal immigrants into our country.
The Democrats haven't changed anyone's mind, they are just trying to replace them.

 

[Buster Keaton]

The most progressive parts of my state are where all of the problems are: poverty, crime, corruption, bad schools, low wage jobs.....
The most conservative parts are the most prosperous: lowest crime, best schools, best jobs, responsible government......

 

[iliveonramen]

The most progressive parts of my state are where all of the problems are: poverty, crime, corruption, bad schools, low wage jobs.....

I call bullshit on this. What state is this.

The most conservative parts are the most prosperous: lowest crime, best schools, best jobs, responsible government......

Once again, I call bullshit. I bet the murder rate and crime rate in rural conservative areas are very high if you account for population.

Tell me the state and I bet you I can prove these false.

 

[Michael Cole]

The most progressive parts of my state are where all of the problems are: poverty, crime, corruption, bad schools, low wage jobs.....
The most conservative parts are the most prosperous: lowest crime, best schools, best jobs, responsible government......

There are no progressive parts here, but everybody does fish.

 

[Buster Keaton]

I call bullshit on this. What state is this.

Once again, I call bullshit. I bet the murder rate and crime rate in rural conservative areas are very high if you account for population.

Tell me the state and I bet you I can prove these false.

Haven't you noticed the Progressives adore criminals?
My state is like most states, the Blue parts are the problem areas.

 

[iliveonramen]

Haven't you noticed the Progressives adore criminals?
My state is like most states, the Blue parts are the problem areas.

What state is this again?

 

[Michael Cole]

Haven't you noticed the Progressives adore criminals?

Trump is a convicted criminal. The only people who adore criminals are MAGA.

My state is like most states, the Blue parts are the problem areas.

 

[Buster Keaton]

Trump is a convicted criminal. The only people who adore criminals are MAGA.

oh do you adore Trump?

 

[Hamish Howl]

Haven't you noticed the Progressives adore criminals?

Like 34 felony criminals?

 

[Peacenik]

Haven't you noticed the Progressives adore criminals?
My state is like most states, the Blue parts are the problem areas.

You give your own state as an example but refuse to identify it?

Disingenuous.

That pulls the plug on your argument.

 

[Michael Cole]

oh do you adore Trump?

Are you okay?

 

[Peacenik]

Haven't you noticed the Progressives adore criminals?
My state is like most states, the Blue parts are the problem areas.

What an absurd and inaccurate stereotypical opinion about progressives.

Blanket unsubstantiated statements about a millions strong group of people appear to come from a position of:

1. Very badly misinformed.
2. Attempting to disrupt discussions by throwing a red herring into the mix.

- I am now wondering if this is a real person or a bot programmed to disrupt discussions with nonsense postings. -

 

[ModernDiogenes]

The standard of living starts to drop. One household income can no longer sustain a middle class family.

That’s understated.

A working class income in NJ with a few years under one’s belt as one of our multitude of service providers; retail clerks, etc., is about $20/hr. That’s around $800/wk, $630 after taxes. That’s around $2500/mo. In NJ your one bedroom apartment is going to cost you $1800/mo of that. That $700 for food and everything else for a month.

Good luck with that if your’s is the only mouth you are responsible for. If you have a family, forget about it.

Wealth starts to accrue rapidly to the top as more and more of progressive era policies and protections evaporate.

That isn’t about progressive policies slipping away, though that can be a symptom. It is about the rising of oligarchical thinking among the rank and file of new money exercising its new found wealth as a stick and stretching that new found power in non-altruistic, self absorbed and self-involved, ways.

The “New Robber Barons” of the New Gilded Age behaving no differently than the old Robber Barons of the last Gilded Age. Folks willing be folks, after all. We seem absolutely committed to refusing to learn anything from our past.

So these new “Kings of the Universe”, who know they simply must be the brightest bulbs in any room since they’ve made all this money. I mean it could not possibly be, at least in part, just dumb luck, realize that all these smarts means that surely they must be in charge.

And they’ll buy that influence until the can rise directly into seats of political power. I mean what good is being filthy rich if you can’t buy power with it? Right? I mean, really, I ask you.

The observation and reporting in this repeating of human behavior isn’t a political thing. It’s a practical historian taking note of obvious repeating social/cultural, political and economic trends and commenting on their past end results.

 

[Craig234]

When the Progressives get everything their way, the middle class flees.

Quite the opposite. You are showing you have a false right-wing ideology. The two most Progressive periods of government in US history are FDR and JFK/LBJ. FDR effectively built the middle class and JFK/LBJ strengthened it and gave the country its best middle class economy it's had since. The Middle class has been greatly harmed and weakened by the Republican oligarch policies since Reagan.

This is why the progressive states of CA, IL and NY have lost congressional seats.

The most successful states are the wealthiest and most expensive. As Republicans have hurt the middle class, people can afford to live less in them, and some move to cheaper states.

This is why Joepedo Biden allowed 7 million illegal immigrants into our country.

Prove it. But illegal immigrants improve the economy. So while you support falsehoods about the Democrats' policies, the claims they're causes for the middle class to "flee" are also false.

The Democrats haven't changed anyone's mind, they are just trying to replace them.

Unfortunately, the right-wing propaganda machine is effective at getting people to fall for lies.

 

[NWRatCon]

It is intentionally revisionist history to suggest "cultural divides" were ever "trivial," and worse to target just about anything post-FDR to current. It is also revisionist history to suggest progressive culturalism is the same today as it was back then or even just as it was 20 years ago.

Starting off a thread like that suggests intention to be disingenuous, if not completely dishonest, about all this. Especially with the bit about the 1980s being anywhere near the timeframes of the social evolutions of the 1960s and 1970s as characterized by "extreme progressive ideology."

It is just nonsense, same with using that as a reason to suggest the pulse of the nation is more liberal than it is. Or would be if Democrats would be more liberal, some suggestion that a triple down on progressivism would unify enough of the nation when that ideology went out of their way to tell the majority of the nation they do not belong. And on that point progressivism got so entrenched in cultural liberalism to the point of identity politics being key that they literally told far too many people they are all prejudiced in some regard.

So go more left is the answer? Are you trying to ensure independents, moderates, and other non-party loyalists suddenly become loyal to Republicans? The political pendulum handing power back to Democrats is the likely conclusion, not some quadruple down on progressive economic and social policies as if everyone progressives hate will suddenly identify with them.

Sorry, but that's just nonsense and nonresponsive.

 

[NWRatCon]

I call bullshit on this. What state is this.

Once again, I call bullshit. I bet the murder rate and crime rate in rural conservative areas are very high if you account for population.

Tell me the state ....

Good luck with that. They don't teach that at Академия внешней разведки имени Ю. В. Андропова (АВР)