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Price transparency in health care

Thanks for your thoughts on this.

Where's the most obvious direction to go from here (e.g., legislatively)?

Just to make the point that it's not all hopeless--there are some things that can be done here--there was an interesting Health Affairs blog post this week that reminded me of this thread (specifically the point quoted above). It highlights this problem in some detail and points to a potential path forward provided by--what else?--the ACA.

Embracing Standard Episode Definitions: An Industry Imperative
 
Quick anecdote.

Quicker anecdote: I will go to any doctor of choice and (if necessary) will enter a hospital free-of-charge for any serious illness.

The total bill will be paid for by a National Healthcare System (less certain specific contingencies not covered).

The cost is so modest I don't mind at all calling upon my doctor for the slightest question. To see a doctor, it costs me 27 euros in France - $30!

THAT is a National Healthcare System where GPs DO NOT EARN $200K a year* as in the US. They earn on average about half that amount!

*But, then again, getting a dentistry or medical degree does not cost an arm and a leg either in France. Total tuition for both is about $1500 à year in Europe ...
 
It highlights this problem in some detail and points to a potential path forward provided by--what else?--the ACA.It highlights this problem in some detail and points to a potential path forward provided by--what else?--the ACA.]

Well, let's hope so because the US has one helluva long way to go in order just to "catch-up" - from here: How U.S. Employee Benefits Compare To Europe’s - excerpt:


Highlight graphic from Glassdoor’s report:


The US has a long, long way to go to catch-up ... and all the Replicant Donald Dork can think about is "How do we scrap Obama's ACA!"

PS:
*In the above infographic Uncle Sam is the worst placing amongst developed countries and by orders of magnitude! Because we spend too much moulah on the DoD!
*And for what? A lifespan that is 4 years less than that of the EU! (Don't believe that? Then see here.)
 
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I don't shop for appendectomy prices here in France. The cost of visiting a GP here in France is 29€! And all other costs are in-line with Healthcare guidelines as set by the French Healthcare System.

From the Healthnews Review, "“Comparing health care costs in US and 8 other countries" - excerpt:
“For example, a hospital stay costs an average of $1,825 in Spain, $5,004 in Germany and an average of $15,734 in the U.S. An appendectomy ranges from an average of $1,030 in Argentina, to $5,509 in Chile, to an average of $13,003 in the U.S.

'Nuff said? Probably not ...
 
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Surface level comparisons to European countries galore.
 
The cost is so modest I don't mind at all calling upon my doctor for the slightest question.

The cost seems modest to the economically illiterate. Medical care is good and cheap in Cuba too. It simply comes out of the French and Cuban standard of living which is about 50% of ours. 1+1=2
 
I just want to commend you for spending the time and effort to look into that and not falling into the all too common tendency to get every test available. Overuse of medical technology is one of the reasons why our health care system is so expensive.
 

That's the most important thing that cost-sharing (having deductibles, copays, coinsurance) accomplishes, is the patient's desire to refuse questionably necessary tests, labs, and other cover-your-ass procedures that providers are very often all too willing to fling at patients. And this is one of the big problems I see with a lot of the recent idealistic campaign fodder versions of single payer I've seen proposed recently, which make silly promises like eliminating all cost-sharing.
 
I am a bit in awe that you had the presence of mind to ask about the false negative rates for the first test. I don't think it's realistic to place that burden on the average health care consumer. That burden should be on those who actually have the background information to make those decisions (ie. The medical professionals). Unfortunately, our system encourages them to NOT forgo tests that have marginal benefits but not so marginal costs.
 

Yep.. its also why we are much more likely to survive cancer than other countries..

there is a tradeoff.
 
Yep.. its also why we are much more likely to survive cancer than other countries..

there is a tradeoff.
Cancer Kills More-and Costs More--in U.S. than in Europe - Scientific ...
404 - Scientific American Blog Network...
Jun 8, 2015 - A new study shows that the U.S. spends far more than Europe on cancer care but has a higher mortality rate for lung cancer, the leading killer.
 
No, it's not

Overuse, by definition, doesn't increase cancer survival rates

Yep.. but policies that are put in place to "prevent" overuse.. generally have the effect to decrease the rate of testing when one is in those "gray" areas.

which is why there is a tradeoff.
 

But the ‘billable rate’ is not the cost.

The cost would have been a small fraction of that.

Lab charges are especially crazy in terms of the differential.

I learned this while fighting a routine lipid panel charge because my insurer thought my wife was also covered by her employers insurer. It went to collections, and the $600+ charge that I literally spent several hours on resolving was finally paid by the insurer for the contracted price of $24.

That’s the point where I knew the US health care system just MIGHT not be the best in the world,
 

Why do you think any other system doesn't have that?

Most other systems are combined private with public.. with varying public contracted rates. That's why an provider would charge 600 because for some insurers.. would reimburse 24 dollars.. some 70.. some 250... etc..
 

Right. It’s a bad system, like I said.
 
Right. It’s a bad system, like I said.

yes, the only good system is capitalism because it forces medical providers to compete on basis of price and quality. No more $25 aspirins when you're in the hospital !
 

You just made a great argument for universal healthcare. I don't get billed for anything in England; not by the doctor or hospital, not for ops-major or minor, not for ambulances, not for prescriptions. Come to England, we''ll fix you for free
 
You just made a great argument for universal healthcare. I don't get billed for anything in England; not by the doctor or hospital, not for ops-major or minor, not for ambulances, not for prescriptions. Come to England, we''ll fix you for free

Universal health care not only does not mean “free,” it also doesn’t necessarily mean zero patient cost-sharing.

Further, it sounds as if you misconstrue my comments as if I were wishing that there were zero cost sharing. That wasn’t my point at all.
 
yes, the only good system is capitalism because it forces medical providers to compete on basis of price and quality. No more $25 aspirins when you're in the hospital !

One cannot tout capitalism when it comes to health care unless one advocates cash-only (including deprivation for those who can't afford it).

Because the version of quasi-capitalism we have provides "free" or near-zero cost-sharing to about half the population and expects the other half to buy insurance from companies that compete with each other. To compete, they create provider networks by convincing providers to sign contracts with those companies agreeing to a set reimbursement rate. Insurers usually want providers to stay relatively mum about price as a condition of contracting with them. Providers themselves also have their own incentive to stay relatively mum about what their "actual" rate is relative to what their reimbursement rates would be from any given third party payer, because patients would get very upset if they knew providers charged out-of-pocket patients differently than the reimbursement rate they're willing to accept from certain payers for the same service.

This all gets rather complicated, but is a way of pointing out that in no way are the conditions met, even barely, by which providers would compete on price.
 
You just made a great argument for universal healthcare. I don't get billed for anything in England; not by the doctor or hospital, not for ops-major or minor, not for ambulances, not for prescriptions. Come to England, we''ll fix you for free

Its not free.
 
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