Price gouging is good

[RaleBulgarian]

Not a worry; you never are.

Thanks @Bullseye. Your opinion further affirms my position.

 

[reflechissez]

It's basically inevitable. The Word gets out of sky high profits, others join in searching for this easy money. But then it gets harder to make the easy money, competition.

 

[bullseyelqcs]

It's basically inevitable. The Word gets out of sky high profits, others join in searching for this easy money. But then it gets harder to make the easy money, competition.

Bull.

Lets play this out.....one guy buys up all the toilet paper right before a huge snowstorm. He then proceeds to try to sell it for 20X what its worth because there is none to be found anywhere else....and somewhere you think its a good thing because next time, MORE people are going to try to make hella profit in a crisis? So what, are you really trying to tell me that if someone is willing to only sell it for 10X what its worth that is a net GAIN for the public? How about the idea that if they didn't buy more than what they needed for the express purpose of ****ing over everyone else, it would be available at it normal price, hence not forcing anyone to pay exorbitant prices.

No, what you are saying is complete bullshit.

 

[bullseyelqcs]

The example of the Uber business model should help anyone understand this ussue more if one really cares to have the right view instead of maintaining the "tribal" view.

What about it?

Uber isn't any cheaper than a cab used to be. And they charge ridiculous rates at times people are most likely to need them.....which has led to the rate of DUI's going up from when the company first started out.

Hooray, right?

 

[Gateman_Wen]

‘Price Gouging’ After a Disaster Is Good for the Public

If government prohibits suppliers from charging more, consumers hoard, exacerbating shortages.

www.wsj.com

This is an emotional topic. I have myself been judgemental of price gougers.
I know this will never sink in to most, but maybe there are a few here willing to put all bias aside and thing with complete rationality here.

Someone charges 50 bucks for a cheap flashlight during a hurricane and people call him evil. Some of Those same hypocrites would gladly offer 50 bucks if they were stuck in that situation. Then turn around and call the person immoral that complied with his request and sold it. Pathetic.

If we allowed price gouging it would be a net benefit to society. It increases supply, and sometimes when it's life and death, when you really need supply.

Oh but it's easier to not think, but emotionally let people die and feel good about ourselves pointing at that nasty price gouger, how we ran him out of town (then oops a storm hit and people died from lack of product).

It's an opinion piece, and one of the stupidest ones I've ever read.

 

[Simpletruther]

It's an opinion piece, and one of the stupidest ones I've ever read.

Initial analysis as always, kudos

 

[Simpletruther]

What about it?

Uber isn't any cheaper than a cab used to be. And they charge ridiculous rates at times people are most likely to need them.....which has led to the rate of DUI's going up from when the company first started out.

Hooray, right?

Right, they price gouge. But guess what, they wouldn't exist without price gouging and countless people have been grateful they were there when they needed them.

It would seem foolish to me to outlaw Ubers strategy. It only takes away choices people want.

 

[CaughtInThe]

I keep saying this but the religious republicans that I grew up with, the men in our small church, don't exist anymore. They were old World War II vets and they didn't agree with things like price gouging during a crisis. They didn't agree with corrupt business people who stole money from customers. They didn't believe in running cons on people just to buy bigger boats. They didn't believe in constantly lying just to make oneself look better or make more money.

 

[Simpletruther]

Bull.

Lets play this out.....one guy buys up all the toilet paper right before a huge snowstorm. He then proceeds to try to sell it for 20X what its worth because there is none to be found anywhere else....and somewhere you think its a good thing because next time, MORE people are going to try to make hella profit in a crisis? So what, are you really trying to tell me that if someone is willing to only sell it for 10X what its worth that is a net GAIN for the public? How about the idea that if they didn't buy more than what they needed for the express purpose of ****ing over everyone else, it would be available at it normal price, hence not forcing anyone to pay exorbitant prices.

No, what you are saying is complete bullshit.

You are not seeing the big picture. If this were the norm, stores would stock more when storms are forecast, the gouges would buy ahead of ti e to I sure they had a supply etc. Attempt end of the day there would be more supply and more Clean arses in the long run.

Consider Uber.

 

[bullseyelqcs]

You are not seeing the big picture. If this were the norm, stores would stock more when storms are forecast, the gouges would buy ahead of ti e to I sure they had a supply etc. Attempt end of the day there would be more supply and more Clean arses in the long run.

Consider Uber.

65% of people live paycheck to paycheck, meaning they dont have the luxury of buying more than they need ahead of time. All that means is that someone with the resources to do exactly that can turn around and charge someone who couldnt afford to pay the grocery store for 2 packs of TP more than the grocery store would have charged them for one in the first place.

How exactly is that helpful. And spare me the bit about stores stockpiling more....they arent going to keep on hand any more than they KNOW they are going to move. Hell, most new stores dont even have stockrooms anymore, they just have loading docks. What comes in is immediately moved to the floor, no extra storage needed.

Again, we all realize price gouging isnt illegal, but it is nothing if not immoral.

 

[bullseyelqcs]

Right, they price gouge. But guess what, they wouldn't exist without price gouging and countless people have been grateful they were there when they needed them.

Until recently.....of late, people have been more willing to risk a DUI than pay what Uber is charging for the ride. That should tell you something in and of itself.

It would seem foolish to me to outlaw Ubers strategy. It only takes away choices people want.

No it doesnt....like I said, Uber isnt any cheaper now than a cab used to be 10 years ago when they first started, and when Uber actually WAS cheaper.

Uber is nothing more than the transportation version of Walmart....they undercut local small businesses until they go out of businsess, then hike prices because there are few if any other options.

Its the antithesis of what you are claiming.

 

[Mithrae]

It's generally never an issue for neighbors. This is about a business model. Someone who stocks up on flashlights to sell during a power outage etc

Similarly moving a factory to a third world country to employ desperate people at 10 cents an hour with no legal recourse when your machinery chews off their arm is a 'business model,' and pretty scummy. Just because it also slightly benefits those workers - the lucky ones who don't lose life or limb, at least - doesn't make it any less scummy. But as you've noted, actual laws to prevent or regulate profiteering off people's desperation should be implemented very carefully, if at all. Someone who makes a business stocking up a van or a convoy to travel to disaster zones and sell essential supplies is ultimately helping, albeit perhaps a little scummily depending on their profit margin. In contrast as @bullseyelqcs has noted, people who buy up all the local supplies during or immediately before a disaster are having a purely negative effect.

 

[Simpletruther]

Similarly moving a factory to a third world country to employ desperate people at 10 cents an hour with no legal recourse when your machinery chews off their arm is a 'business model,' and pretty scummy. Just because it also slightly benefits those workers - the lucky ones who don't lose life or limb, at least - doesn't make it any less scummy. But as you've noted, actual laws to prevent or regulate profiteering off people's desperation should be implemented very carefully, if at all. Someone who makes a business stocking up a van or a convoy to travel to disaster zones and sell essential supplies is ultimately helping, albeit perhaps a little scummily depending on their profit margin. In contrast as @bullseyelqcs has noted, people who buy up all the local supplies during or immediately before a disaster are having a purely negative effect.

I disagree.

Those third world people are improving their lives and welcome that factory. As bad as it is, it's better than before. That is what progress looks like.

 

[Mithrae]

I disagree.

Those third world people are improving their lives and welcome that factory. As bad as it is, it's better than before. That is what progress looks like.

A non scummy business model would pay those workers two or four or ten times that amount, which they might be happier about. National minimum wages in wealthy countries are necessary to prevent the desperation-driven race to the bottom which would otherwise be inevitable; similarly, a compelling case can be made that companies trading internationally should be compelled to abide by global minimum wage and labour standards, starting near the current low point but increasing over time.

 

[Simpletruther]

A non scummy business model would pay those workers two or four or ten times that amount, which they might be happier about. National minimum wages in wealthy countries are necessary to prevent the desperation-driven race to the bottom which would otherwise be inevitable; similarly, a compelling case can be made that companies trading internationally should be compelled to abide by global minimum wage and labour standards, starting near the current low point but increasing over time.

In rich countries there would be nobody slaving for 5 bucks an hour. They would si pay stay home. Which the exception of a few industrious young folks.

What if your competiton were paying 5cents an hour?

You could either pay 10 cents or not open your factory because you could t compete and sell your product at much higher Are you still scummy for paying 10 cents and opening ?

 

[bullseyelqcs]

In rich countries there would be nobody slaving for 5 bucks an hour. They would si pay stay home. Which the exception of a few industrious young folks.

What if your competiton were paying 5cents an hour?

You could either pay 10 cents or not open your factory because you could t compete and sell your product at much higher Are you still scummy for paying 10 cents and opening ?

The problem is they ARE paying 10 cents and STILL selling the product for massive profits.

That said, outsourcing has nothing to do with what we were discussing.

Its it utterly reprehensible for someone to price gouge anytime, but actually somehow worse to do so during an emergency. Note that I said reprehensible and not illegal, nor should it be.....but dont expect anyone with a shred of human decency to accept your premise.

Price gougers are a net negative on EVERY level.

 

[Lloyd Christmas]

Another person who obviously is trolling who has an obvious troll name. SimpleTruther. right on part with stupidity of the right, claim something is truth then provide none of it.

 

[Simpletruther]

The problem is they ARE paying 10 cents and STILL selling the product for massive profits.

That said, outsourcing has nothing to do with what we were discussing.

Its it utterly reprehensible for someone to price gouge anytime, but actually somehow worse to do so during an emergency. Note that I said reprehensible and not illegal, nor should it be.....but dont expect anyone with a shred of human decency to accept your premise.

Price gougers are a net negative on EVERY level.

Sorry but anyone offering a product and the price is agreed upon by the the buyer is doing nothing wrong. Don't buy it if you don't like it. Only the greedy would object.

 

[bullseyelqcs]

Sorry but anyone offering a product and the price is agreed upon by the the buyer is doing nothing wrong. Don't buy it if you don't like it. Only the greedy would object.

Thats simply not true when it comes to necessary things. Case in point...

If before an emergency, a person can get a gallon of fresh water from the store for $1, but someone buys out all of the stores the day before it happens and starts charging $20 a gallon because he has all of the fresh water essentially in the city, its wrong.

Only the greedy would be okay with pricetagging life that way.

 

[Mr Person]

Someone charges 50 bucks for a cheap flashlight during a hurricane and people call him evil. Some of Those same hypocrites would gladly offer 50 bucks if they were stuck in that situation. Then turn around and call the person immoral that complied with his request and sold it. Pathetic.

The fact that someone is sufficiently desperate for their life to give anything for an object means that there is no immorality in taking advantage of that person?

The villain is, in fact, the person who criticizes the evil scumbag doing the advantage-taking?



I'd be shocked if I didn't already understand this about Trumpism. Are there any commandments left for you to piss on? Jeebus.

 

[Mr Person]

If you think someone is trying to price gouge you tell them to F/O and go to to WalMart or Amazon and get it cheaper. Problem solved, how easy was that?

If the hypothetical involves a life-threatening situation, just remove the life-threatening situation and evade the hypothetical.

Problem solved, how easy was that?

 

[Mr Person]

For the economic reasons you mention, price gouging should of course be legal.

For the moral reasons everyone is familiar with, we should recognize that (generally) it's a pretty scummy person who doesn't need certain goods while their neighbours are in desperate need and instead of giving it to them for free or at a normal price tries to make big bucks off their misery.

For exactly the same reasons, we should recognize that pretty much all of us are kinda scummy people towards our global neighbours, hoarding and luxuriating in far more wealth and material goods than we need while hundreds of millions suffer malnutrition, exposure, disease and death. So, logs in our own eyes and all that.

There's always the option of imposing rationing at the same time as prohibitions on price gouging, if the situation is dire enough to require it. Perhaps the article addresses that but I didn't get that far, seeing as the OP is instead trying to argue that price gouging is not immoral...

 

[Mr Person]

The example of the Uber business model should help anyone understand this ussue more if one really cares to have the right view instead of maintaining the "tribal" view.

Your article doesn't support you. It argues that allowing price gouging is more efficient than banning it because gouging bans produce consumer hoarding. Not the best argument on its face because allowing price gouging just creates a different set of hoarders: the gougers. Because duh, you can't gouge someone unless you've first hoarded what they need.

That has nothing to do with morality. It's an argument about economic efficiency. And since it was made in a paper, its author can only rely on a few anecdotes from history. Readers don't have the training and experience to understand a rigorous economics paper on the point. I would imagine that it's a hell of a lot more complicated than "price controls inefficient vs price controls efficient".




But you? You're trying to argue that it is not immoral to take advantage of the life-threatening situation to rip you off. And that as wrong is as it is disgusting.

 

[Greenbeard]

If gougers are allowed to make a profit during a hurricane, guess what happens during the next hurricane. More gougers will be out there selling flash lights, increasing supply and driving prices down.

Is there some empirical evidence that allowing price gouging once eliminates it forever after?

 

[Simpletruther]

Is there some empirical evidence that allowing price gouging once eliminates it forever after?

I didn't make that claim.

Price gouging cannot be eliminated unless you are Russia or north korea.

Hotels charge more on certain weekends, they price gouge. Uber charges more when supply of drivers is low, they price gouge, we could go on forever. Superbowl lickets are higher than a normal game etc etc etc.

But allowing gouging will undoubtedly bring prices down and increase supply, both of which are beneficial to society.