Press: Afghanistan was wrong from start to finish

[Chomsky]

With all due respect, the military operates on orders from Biden. They are not an independent branch of government granted unilateral decision making. As far as evidence of incompetence, if you haven't seen it then you haven't had your television or radio on in the past month. The airlift, which Biden told us had been planned out, has been less than effective. The Taliban, al Qaeda and ISIS are all operating inside Afghanistan even though Biden told is that al Qaeda was "gone". The messaging between the WH, State Dept. and Pentagon has been inconsistent and often in direct contradiction to what people are witnessing on the ground.

Yes, but Biden acts on the intelligence he's given, and the military provides the execution.

 

[Chomsky]

BIDEN JULY

There is no way the Taliban will take over.

Biden's decision making process is only as good as the intelligence he was provided.

I find it impossible to believe Biden would have signed on for the current situation, if he was provided accurate intelligence predicting this.

 

[Lutherf]

Yes, but Biden acts on the intelligence he's given, and the military provides the execution.

Most of the media is glossing over the intelligence issue and that's probably because there is so much finger pointing and CYA stuff going on in DC right now that any reporting has to be taken with several grains of salt. NBC did cite intelligence briefings last week but for purposes of this discussion I'll just go with "Joe didn't have any intelligence suggesting a rapid collapse". Let's just go with that because...well, why no?

So, Joe didn't have any briefings that suggested the ANA would collapse and pulled out of Bagram in the middle of the night without telling allies or even the Afghans. More than that, Joe pulled out of Bagram without FORMALLY transferring the base and responsibilities to the ANA/ANSF. Between going to sleep on July 1st and waking up July 2nd the ANSF discovered that Bagram had been vacated and it was all theirs. Well, it was all theirs after they cleared out looters. Let me ask you, is that the way you usually see a transfer of command at a military base? Does that method of transfer really instill confidence in the beneficiary nation or show that the US had any confidence in them?

Now, on July 2nd the Taliban was more or less sitting on the sidelines. Sure, they were planning for an eventual takeover but they weren't doing anything about it because, up to that point, we still had a joint task force and the US was backstopping the ANA. As soon as the Taliban realized that the US had slithered away in the dark of night they started their march and, in the process, reminded the ANA that the US had bailed on them. THAT is why everything collapsed so quickly.

Biden, with all his guts, all his determination, all his planning and all his brilliant leadership didn't take the most basic step in transferring power. He didn't transfer power at all! He just walked off the field and said "Trump's fault". Afghanistan collapsed in mere days because Biden didn't see fit to formalize a transfer of power! If he had done just the minimum along those lines he could have said "Well, I made sure they were equipped and ready" but he didn't even do that!

 

[Chomsky]

Most of the media is glossing over the intelligence issue and that's probably because there is so much finger pointing and CYA stuff going on in DC right now that any reporting has to be taken with several grains of salt. NBC did cite intelligence briefings last week but for purposes of this discussion I'll just go with "Joe didn't have any intelligence suggesting a rapid collapse". Let's just go with that because...well, why no?

I'm good!

So, Joe didn't have any briefings that suggested the ANA would collapse and pulled out of Bagram in the middle of the night without telling allies or even the Afghans. More than that, Joe pulled out of Bagram without FORMALLY transferring the base and responsibilities to the ANA/ANSF. Between going to sleep on July 1st and waking up July 2nd the ANSF discovered that Bagram had been vacated and it was all theirs. Well, it was all theirs after they cleared out looters. Let me ask you, is that the way you usually see a transfer of command at a military base? Does that method of transfer really instill confidence in the beneficiary nation or show that the US had any confidence in them?

On the surface. 'no', that would not be the 'ideal' way to transfer the base.

But, perhaps there was no way to transfer the base? Intelligence may have deemed the Afghan 'military' as faulty from the get-go. They may never have fought, and just been there to take advantage of the situation.

Now, on July 2nd the Taliban was more or less sitting on the sidelines. Sure, they were planning for an eventual takeover but they weren't doing anything about it because, up to that point, we still had a joint task force and the US was backstopping the ANA. As soon as the Taliban realized that the US had slithered away in the dark of night they started their march and, in the process, reminded the ANA that the US had bailed on them. THAT is why everything collapsed so quickly.

I do agree, here. But, that's not to say as low withdrawal would have been any different or worse. You're giving a hypothetical, in a part of the world that does not conform to Western Thought constructs.

Biden, with all his guts, all his determination, all his planning and all his brilliant leadership didn't take the most basic step in transferring power. He didn't transfer power at all! He just walked off the field and said "Trump's fault". Afghanistan collapsed in mere days because Biden didn't see fit to formalize a transfer of power! If he had done just the minimum along those lines he could have said "Well, I made sure they were equipped and ready" but he didn't even do that!

Maybe, there was no one to 'transfer' to? These are tribes, not nations. You see how the so-called 'Afghan Military' flipped, immediately? In fact, I would argue it's possible - if not probable - the so-called 'Afghan Military' used us for checks, rations, armory, safety, etc., with no intention of fighting for us. They were impoverished, unprotected, desperate individuals, who enjoyed the free ride for as long as they could milk us.

--

Thanks for the detailed & well thought-out post, Lutherf!

 

[Port & Starboard]

Biden's decision making process is only as good as the intelligence he was provided.

I find it impossible to believe Biden would have signed on for the current situation, if he was provided accurate intelligence predicting this.

I'll give you that.

My slant is towards the tough talking people here on Debate Politics placing the blame on the people that are left behind.

They knew better they say.

We'll, we had a American President telling them that there was virtually no way that the Taliban were going to take over.

 

[Chomsky]

I'll give you that.

My slant is towards the tough talking people here on Debate Politics placing the blame on the people that are left behind.

They knew better they say.

We'll, we had a American President telling them that there was virtually no way that the Taliban were going to take over.

Thanks for the replay, as always, my friend.

If so inclined - as a military man - do you care to comment on an idea I put forth in the last paragraph in the post below?

Press: Afghanistan was wrong from start to finish

With all due respect, the military operates on orders from Biden. They are not an independent branch of government granted unilateral decision making. As far as evidence of incompetence, if you haven't seen it then you haven't had your television or radio on in the past month. The airlift, which...

debatepolitics.com

 

[Port & Starboard]

Thanks for the replay, as always, my friend.

If so inclined - as a military man - do you care to comment on an idea I put forth in the last paragraph in the post below?

Press: Afghanistan was wrong from start to finish

With all due respect, the military operates on orders from Biden. They are not an independent branch of government granted unilateral decision making. As far as evidence of incompetence, if you haven't seen it then you haven't had your television or radio on in the past month. The airlift, which...

debatepolitics.com

I never liked the idea of total invasion of Afghanistan but I grudgingly accepted it, and at the same time, I did not knock anyone who was for or against it back in the day.

But as it turned out, the restrictions placed on our troops was totally despicable and the blame rests on the Suits and the Generals. The idea that the war was conducted by handing bribes to Afghani political figures and village leaders to win "hearts and minds" was unfathomable to me. It showed a total lack of resolve by the American leadership. The Afghani citizens would just as soon go with who ever is in control to save their own lives and I don't blame them one bit because they have seen a number of warring factions come and go for hundreds of years.

Al Qaeda, Isis, and the Taliban are nothing more than animals and we tried to fight them wearing dinner gloves and observing caution signs. You can't fight these goat ****ers under the same international humanitarian agreements from WWI & WWII because they are nothing more than ****ing animals that are smart enough to use a ideology as a cloak.

Then on top of everything else.......we also had the nerve to hand some of their more open minded citizens a false hope.

We sold the citizens of Afghanistan a load of bullshit and then abandoned them.