Yes. By DP standards, his question is downright tame.
No individuals are named. He's not talking about a specific situation. Plenty of religious people are willing to say far, far harsher things about materialists / atheists. Anyone participating in the philosophy subforum ought to recognize that tough questions will be asked.
I assure you, by the way, there are FAR more direct, condescending, insulting and vicious of ways to insult people who practice intercessory prayer.
Nope, that's godless liberalism that's full of excuses and nonsense.
Next time you need a miracle make sure you face east and pray to Oprah.
I read, and am sorry if my answers and tone are too straight forward for your types. People post the things like the OP, hoping for an argument.
Well 6 pages of making sure everyone knows the OP is a very insensitive person. Good job all around. Hope he never looks into a dying family members eyes looking for help or answers.
Right, it's his fault that prayer does no good, lol.
Such a load of ****.
Prove it does no good.
There's no evidence that it does any good. That's not direct proof, but it's a good reason to assume it does no good.Prove it does no good.
Uh... okay?Prove it does no good.
Prove it does no good.
Lots of people on those 9/11 planes must have been praying.
Prayer is a form of meditation [with how I see it]. It's a way to calm yourself and control your emotions in a situation where things are just out of your control.
Doesn't necessarily mean someone's expecting god to follow through with anything. Again - with how I see it [an atheist raised by Christians - minister father]
Lots of people on those 9/11 planes must have been praying.
Topic off limits? No, but did you read his reasoning in his OP. Very condescending and almost a hope to attempt an insult to anyone that does pray for a family member and or asks others to if they are of the same bend.
I'll bet a bunch of them got into heaven too, while the Christ-deniers didn't.
Prayer is a form of meditation [with how I see it]. It's a way to calm yourself and control your emotions in a situation where things are just out of your control.
Doesn't necessarily mean someone's expecting god to follow through with anything. Again - with how I see it [an atheist raised by Christians - minister father]
Let me start by saying that I was raised Christian, but I am no longer religious. One thing that I often see are appeals like the following:
"My son [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]needs your prayers. He started shivering and spiked a high fever. We are at the hospital right now waiting for them to do some tests."[/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]"Our father was rushed to the hospital last night with chest pains. Please pray for him."[/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]"My wife's cancer is not responding to chemo. Please pray."[/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]We have all seen appeals like those. Parents whose child is sick or has been involved in an accident asking for others to pray for them. People praying for loved ones that are sick or have gone missing, or have been in an accident and so on. Of course we always feel for them, particularly when its a parent whose child is sick or injured. What I don't understand though is why if God is a good and loving god, does he need hundreds of people or more begging and pleading with him before he considers helping someone? It seems to me that if one is to accept the "power of prayer", then it follows that God is up there in heaven like this:
"Well sorry to tell you that you will have to watch your child die a long and agonizing death, but tell you what. If you get enough people down there to beg and plead with me on behalf of your child, I might, just might, change my mind."
Am I the only one that sees it that way?[/FONT]
You're far from the first to question the practice.
However, the usual short answer is: Well it can't hurt.
Longer answer: group prayer is arguably endorsed in Acts, though there is some debate about collective prayer to meet a request/need.
I understand the scriptural justification for it. There are examples of prayers for intercession throughout scripture with many parallel versus between the Gospels. My question was more about the logical / moral implication of a God that requires people to beg him in order to motivate him to heal someone or alleviate their suffering.
How does asking a deity to stop a disease, in one specific person, qualify as a "communion?"It is for our spiritual benefit, and communion with God.
If you had a choice between taking antibiotics or praying, which should you choose? Since antibiotics work without prayer, how exactly are you relying upon the deity?It teaches us to rely on Him, to turn things over to Him, to seek and accept His will, to turn our hearts and minds towards Him.
How does a small child dying from leukemia fit into the deity's plan?It's part of a bigger picture where all the pieces ultimately fit together in a plan only God is big enough to see: all our troubles and triumphs, all our joys and trials.
Why is it an act of faith to ask the deity to intervene? If intercessory prayer does not change the outcome -- as is frequently the case -- then why do you regard this as your deity honoring faith? If you beg a deity for 6 months for your wife's cancer to go into remission, and she dies from cancer instead, then was your faith honored? How did your spirit benefit?What about people who have a crisis of faith, when extensive intercessory prayer fails?Why ask God for anything then, since He already knows? It is an act of faith; God honors faith, and faith benefits the spirit of the person praying.
How does asking a deity to stop a disease, in one specific person, qualify as a "communion?"
Communion is the sharing of intimate thoughts and feelings. But by your own stipulation, your deity is omniscient, and doesn't need to be addressed directly to know you care about a specific person. You also aren't receiving any actual communication from the deity; it certainly isn't sharing its intimate thoughts and feelings with the supplicant.
If you had a choice between taking antibiotics or praying, which should you choose? Since antibiotics work without prayer, how exactly are you relying upon the deity?
If you were accepting the deity's will, why would you ask the deity to change the course of events?
How does a small child dying from leukemia fit into the deity's plan?
If by definition you can't judge the plan, how do you know it's benevolent? How do you know that particular person's disease is part of it? How do you know the deity doesn't enjoy human suffering?
Do you have free will? How can you simultaneously have truly free will, and be subject to the plan of a deity?
Do you know what an unfalsifiable claim is?
Why is it an act of faith to ask the deity to intervene? If intercessory prayer does not change the outcome -- as is frequently the case -- then why do you regard this as your deity honoring faith? If you beg a deity for 6 months for your wife's cancer to go into remission, and she dies from cancer instead, then was your faith honored? How did your spirit benefit?What about people who have a crisis of faith, when extensive intercessory prayer fails?
You understand that's not an answer. Right?When all is said and done my answer to all your questions is: Faith.
You understand that's not an answer. Right?
Let me start by saying that I was raised Christian, but I am no longer religious. One thing that I often see are appeals like the following:
"My son [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]needs your prayers. He started shivering and spiked a high fever. We are at the hospital right now waiting for them to do some tests."[/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]"Our father was rushed to the hospital last night with chest pains. Please pray for him."[/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]"My wife's cancer is not responding to chemo. Please pray."[/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]We have all seen appeals like those. Parents whose child is sick or has been involved in an accident asking for others to pray for them. People praying for loved ones that are sick or have gone missing, or have been in an accident and so on. Of course we always feel for them, particularly when its a parent whose child is sick or injured. What I don't understand though is why if God is a good and loving god, does he need hundreds of people or more begging and pleading with him before he considers helping someone? It seems to me that if one is to accept the "power of prayer", then it follows that God is up there in heaven like this:
"Well sorry to tell you that you will have to watch your child die a long and agonizing death, but tell you what. If you get enough people down there to beg and plead with me on behalf of your child, I might, just might, change my mind."
Am I the only one that sees it that way?[/FONT]
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