Post Conception Opt-Out? Good Idea or Bad?

[iguanaman]

If she wants the child let her support it

Legalizing deadbeat dads is nuts. How cheap can you be?

 

[trouble13]

If she wants the child let her support it

That would destroy an entire cottage industry that's exclusively for women.

 

[trouble13]

Legalizing deadbeat dads is nuts. How cheap can you be?

Maybe women should be more careful who they procreate with

 

[AGENT J]

Do you even have an argument to offer or is more of this all you have to offer?

don't need an "argument" when your claim is factually wrong LMAO
thats the best part, its YOUR job to support your asinine claim that banning abortion makes things equal but you wont cause you cant cause facts dont care about your feelings

 

[BirdinHand]

Maybe women should be more careful who they procreate with

I think guys should walk around with those contracts.

It would definitely serve as a nice, bright red flag.

 

[trouble13]

I think guys should walk around with those contracts.

It would definitely serve as a nice, bright red flag.

What contracts are you talking about?

 

[BirdinHand]

What contracts are you talking about?

Oh, they’re somewhere in this thread. I’m sure if you look, you can find the reference

 

[Lursa]

Oh, they’re somewhere in this thread. I’m sure if you look, you can find the reference

And it doesnt matter what kind of 'opt-out' agreement there is, it's still bullshit:

--the child has rights recognized by the state that supersede any such contract (as Bodh concedes already) and there's no public interest to deny the child's rights thru new law, since it harms kids and taxpayers. Post 4.​

​

--nothing will keep the father from contacting the kid (or the kid from contacting the father) further down the line. And he can still be involved in the kid's life. No court will stop that...because all agree that it's best for the kid to have the father involved in their lives. (I do too). Some states even let rapists apply for custody when they're released...they're certainly not going to stop non-criminals from being in their kids' lives.​

​

Men will get out of all the responsibilities AND still get to be a father when they feel like it.​

So much for their 'pretend noble, self-righteous struggle for 'equality.' As the saying goes, "They get to have their cake and eat it too."

They refuse to address that, of course, but it is hard to refute, lol.

 

[What if...?]

But the potential is there. Real harm is not predictable or preventable.



Because the law calls for it. And it's matter of the child's rights. See post 4. This has been explained many times. Please read that before asking again.



Not at all. And men have 100% ability to avoid that "punishment" as you call it...right? Yes or no?

Do you believe that men are entitled to sex without consequences? Yes or no?



Me either. And both have complete control over that decision. For the man, it comes earlier than for the woman, but that's determined by biology...it shouldnt be blamed on women.

Doesn’t make you right no matter how many times you repeat it.

I never said men deserve sex without consequences. Just that women shouldn’t have that right if men don’t. She can decide to wait or that she just doesn’t ever want a kid. You deny the same right to men because reasons. Reasons that aren’t an argument against abortion, an acceptable risk for her to take if she chooses. No say for the father, though. She gets to unilaterally decide and he just has to suck it either way.

But full responsibility if she chooses to keep it. Even if the only reason is a meal ticket. There are women who do this. Some people are shitty, both sexes.

It’s like there’s a blind spot in your views on this. And it sounds exactly like misanthropy. A belief that all men are shitty and always have been and deserve consequences for things they never did or would do.

Do you think women deserve sex without consequences? Obviously you do. At least not equal consequences.

I guess I’m just more pro choice than you are. I want everybody to have a choice. You only want women to have a choice. Men must abstain. Women free to **** as much as they want. Men chained to an unplanned child. Women not.

 

[Gatsby]

Any dude who thinks men should be able to "opt out" of taking care of their own kids is the type of dude who was a socialist in his 20s (which he defined as his mom bringing him an endless supply of Redbull while he plays Halo all day), and a libertarian in his 30s (which he defined as not needing the nanny state to enforce the 4 restraining orders his exes have filed against him for trying to educate them with Facts And Logic).

Grow up and take care of your kids.

 

[What if...?]

And it doesnt matter what kind of 'opt-out' agreement there is, it's still bullshit:

--the child has rights recognized by the state that supersede any such contract (as Bodh concedes already) and there's no public interest to deny the child's rights thru new law, since it harms kids and taxpayers. Post 4.​

​

--nothing will keep the father from contacting the kid (or the kid from contacting the father) further down the line. And he can still be involved in the kid's life. No court will stop that...because all agree that it's best for the kid to have the father involved in their lives. (I do too). Some states even let rapists apply for custody when they're released...they're certainly not going to stop non-criminals from being in their kids' lives.​

​

Men will get out of all the responsibilities AND still get to be a father when they feel like it.​

So much for their 'pretend noble, self-righteous struggle for 'equality.' As the saying goes, "They get to have their cake and eat it too."

They refuse to address that, of course, but it is hard to refute, lol.

Again. Mad at men in general. All women are little angels who must be protected from the predations of those evil men. It’s ok for women to have all the sex they want and opt out of a pregnancy. Men must abstain or suffer the consequences. Of their wanted child being aborted or their unwanted child tied around their neck for 18years.

I did note the tax bit. Again it’s about chaining the man to the child. While the woman can accept the responsibility or not.

It is internally inconsistent. And sexist.

 

[Hamish Howl]

If you don't like the risks, don't get your dick wet.

 

[What if...?]

Any dude who thinks men should be able to "opt out" of taking care of their own kids is the type of dude who was a socialist in his 20s (which he defined as his mom bringing him an endless supply of Redbull while he plays Halo all day), and a libertarian in his 30s (which he defined as not needing the nanny state to enforce the 4 restraining orders his exes have filed against him for trying to educate them with Facts And Logic).

Grow up and take care of your kids.

Women get to opt out. Why not men?

 

[What if...?]

If you don't like the risks, don't get your dick wet.

But if you’re female get all the dick you want?

 

[Lursa]

Doesn’t make you right no matter how many times you repeat it.

I never said men deserve sex without consequences. Just that women shouldn’t have that right if men don’t.

Women dont. You can ignore the fact that women cannot escape consequences if you want, but we cant, no matter how many times YOU repeat it.

She can decide to wait or that she just doesn’t ever want a kid. You deny the same right to men because reasons. Reasons that aren’t an argument against abortion, an acceptable risk for her to take if she chooses. No say for the father, though. She gets to unilaterally decide and he just has to suck it either way.

I'm not denying men or women anything. Please read the law, post 4. I guess it's easier to act all mad and self-righteous when you ignore reality.

But full responsibility if she chooses to keep it. Even if the only reason is a meal ticket. There are women who do this. Some people are shitty, both sexes.

So? Choose your sex partners better, goes for both of them. The govt is not in the business of regulating relationships...people treat each other like shit in relationships...this is not new.

If she chooses to keep and he contests that...he has the right to share custody. And not get as much or any $.

It’s like there’s a blind spot in your views on this. And it sounds exactly like misanthropy. A belief that all men are shitty and always have been and deserve consequences for things they never did or would do.

I've never written any such thing. Prove it. OTOH you minimize the pain and risks of the consequences women face when pregnant. And I'm happy to post quotes to prove that.

Do you think women deserve sex without consequences? Obviously you do. At least not equal consequences.

No I dont. And it's also not possible. And biology determines if the consequences are different or not.

Certainly risking pain and health damage and death are not remotely equal to paying $$$...women definitely get the short stick there.

I guess I’m just more pro choice than you are. I want everybody to have a choice. You only want women to have a choice. Men must abstain. Women free to **** as much as they want. Men chained to an unplanned child. Women not.

Men have a choice. You have continually avoided answering these questions:

Why does the man choose to risk her having that decision? So when she makes the best decision in her own best interests, why is he blaming her? He didnt make the best decision in his own best interests...that's not her fault.​

​

No one forces men to have sex, do they? Are you claiming that men are not capable of making decisions, before sex, in their own best interests? Are men really so incompetent? Such victims? I dont think so, you seem to.​

 

[Hamish Howl]

But if you’re female get all the dick you want?

Life is sometimes really unfair, isn't it?

 

[Gatsby]

Women get to opt out. Why not men?

Women do not get to "opt out" in the sense that you are talking about allowing men to opt out. You have exactly the same rights to abort a fetus growing inside you as a woman does. And neither you nor a woman have any right to "opt out" of paying for your children after they are born, unless you agree to put it up for adoption.

If there's an inequality with your access to abortion, take it up with human biology, not the law.

 

[What if...?]

Women dont. You can ignore the fact that women cannot escape consequences if you want, but we cant, no matter how many times YOU repeat it.



I'm not denying men or women anything. Please read the law, post 4. I guess it's easier to act all mad and self-righteous when you ignore reality.



So? Choose your sex partners better, goes for both of them. The govt is not in the business of regulating relationships...people treat each other like shit in relationships...this is not new.

If she chooses to keep and he contests that...he has the right to share custody. And not get as much or any $.



I've never written any such thing. Prove it. OTOH you minimize the pain and risks of the consequences women face when pregnant. And I'm happy to post quotes to prove that.



No I dont. And it's also not possible. And biology determines if the consequences are different or not.

Certainly risking pain and health damage and death are not remotely equal to paying $$$...women definitely get the short stick there.



Men have a choice. You have continually avoided answering these questions:

Why does the man choose to risk her having that decision? So when she makes the best decision in her own best interests, why is he blaming her? He didnt make the best decision in his own best interests...that's not her fault.​

​

No one forces men to have sex, do they? Are you claiming that men are not capable of making decisions, before sex, in their own best interests? Are men really so incompetent? Such victims? I dont think so, you seem to.​

There are consequences. Never said there weren’t. But what consequences are hers to decide. He gets no such choice. Apparently because men suck and deserve whatever they get.

Do you know any men who have been raked over the coals by family court in favor of the worst mom you’ve ever seen because she is female? I have.

I fail to see the moral difference between men chaining women to them through impregnation and women chaining men to them through getting pregnant. It’s exploitive either way. Overcompensation for the past visited on the present.

Aren’t we supposed to all be equal in the eyes of the law? We clearly aren’t in this case.

 

[Lursa]

Again. Mad at men in general. All women are little angels who must be protected from the predations of those evil men. It’s ok for women to have all the sex they want and opt out of a pregnancy. Men must abstain or suffer the consequences. Of their wanted child being aborted or their unwanted child tied around their neck for 18years.

I did note the tax bit. Again it’s about chaining the man to the child. While the woman can accept the responsibility or not.

It is internally inconsistent. And sexist.

How am I mad at men when I didnt write the laws? I dont see you addressing the laws or the child's rights directly at all...I bet you didnt even read post 4, did you? What 'tax bit', be specific, quote it.

I never wrote men were evil...you are so triggered now, you arent even making sense. You're arguments have failed and you are just spinning. This is the path Bodh went down...he's tried this 'idea' since 2018 at least and failed every time. Every time he gets mad, starts attacking posters that disagree, mostly calling people "liars that dont address his actual argument"...and then 'abandons the failed thread.'

You are definitely winding yourself up that way...it shows when posters attack the other posters, make crap up, and do not directly answer questions or address links/info. You are exhibit number one there right now.

 

[Bodi]

I know and it is sad. If a man fathers a child he should be responsible to help support it. Period.

This argument is about making things equal regarding choice to be a parent prior to the child and after the conception.

 

[Lursa]

There are consequences. Never said there weren’t. But what consequences are hers to decide. He gets no such choice. Apparently because men suck and deserve whatever they get.

No...no women choose to die in childbirth, or have miscarriages. Why are you lying? Is lying and minimizing women's consequences the only way you can wrap your mind around this? How can you possibly compare such physical pain and risks to $$? Certainly it's not equal.

Do you know any men who have been raked over the coals by family court in favor of the worst mom you’ve ever seen because she is female? I have.

Yup. And women too...when SOB ex's get shared custody just to spite the women. What's your point? Why are you ignoring what I wrote? I asked you if you want the govt involved in everyone's relationships? That there will always be shitty people in relationships and no laws will change that.

I fail to see the moral difference between men chaining women to them through impregnation and women chaining men to them through getting pregnant. It’s exploitive either way. Overcompensation for the past visited on the present.

Your use of hyperbole doesnt make it true. The man can mail a check for THE CHILD, not the woman, and never deal with her.

If a man doesnt want to risk that 'chaining'...he can avoid it by not having sex with that woman...yes or no?

Aren’t we supposed to all be equal in the eyes of the law? We clearly aren’t in this case.

Yes we are. The laws pertaining to child support are equal. Have you not even learned that here? And what law can make physically being pregnant 'equal?'

 

[Bodi]

Women do not get to "opt out" in the sense that you are talking about allowing men to opt out.

I always love the whole "since it is not biologically exact we can not make anything equal under the law" argument. LOL

You have exactly the same rights to abort a fetus growing inside you as a woman does.

That is the same exact argument that homophobes use against gay marriage. LOL

Gay can already marry people... a gay man can marry a woman!!

And neither you nor a woman have any right to "opt out" of paying for your children after they are born, unless you agree to put it up for adoption.

That literally has nothing to do with the OP

If there's an inequality with your access to abortion, take it up with human biology, not the law.

Simple enough to just change the law/.

 

[Lursa]

This argument is about making things equal regarding choice to be a parent prior to the child and after the conception.

In other words, sleeping around, getting a woman pregnant, and then when you find out she's pregnant, wanting to run from the responsibility if there's a child. A story as old as time.

All your little numbered, outlined steps in the OP cant gloss that over.

What you want is to get rid of child support laws. That's exactly what it amounts to. Why would states, society do that? The NEED is still there...and BOTH parents are held equally responsible, one way or another.

 

[Bodi]

There are consequences. Never said there weren’t. But what consequences are hers to decide. He gets no such choice. Apparently because men suck and deserve whatever they get.

That is what it boils down to...

Do you know any men who have been raked over the coals by family court in favor of the worst mom you’ve ever seen because she is female? I have.

Me too...

I fail to see the moral difference between men chaining women to them through impregnation and women chaining men to them through getting pregnant. It’s exploitive either way. Overcompensation for the past visited on the present.

Aren’t we supposed to all be equal in the eyes of the law? We clearly aren’t in this case.

You are debating a person that is very disingenuous.

 

[What if...?]

Women do not get to "opt out" in the sense that you are talking about allowing men to opt out. You have exactly the same rights to abort a fetus growing inside you as a woman does. And neither you nor a woman have any right to "opt out" of paying for your children after they are born, unless you agree to put it up for adoption.

If there's an inequality with your access to abortion, take it up with human biology, not the law.

Why is this so hard?

A woman can choose to wait to have a child. Or decide she doesn’t want a “baby body”. Or hates children. And that’s fine, for all the reasons. But the man enjoys no comparable choice. “That’s what you get for having sex” is the distilled response.

But only aimed at men. For some reason. Always couched in “men bad” of some form.

When a woman decides to wait til she’s better prepared she’s being wise and responsible. But a man with the same reason is an asshole and will suffer all of the consequences the woman gets to avoid by waiting. Mad the child of the woman who waits is far more likely to have a good life than the one the father is forced to support before he is ready for the responsibility.

Now I predict another response that says the situation is ok that never addresses the disparity in freedom from consequence here.