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Post Conception Opt-Out FOR MEN

The BS is yours in this case."(I)nfertility, infection, and even death" are possible consequences of both maintaining a pregnancy and abortion, but the choices themselves are not consequences. Abortion is never a consequence, but an action that can have consequences. Same with pregnancy. Getting pregnant is a consequence. Choosing to remain pregnant is an action that can have consequences. And I am not suggesting that consequences only come from one's own decisions or choices. One can be pregnant and not know and still will have to deal with all the possible consequences of being pregnant. Likewise, one can suffer the consequences of another's actions, such as a broken jaw when another punches them without provocation. I will make one exception, but that is more based upon technicality. A miscarriage is in truth and medically called an abortion, a natural abortion. That type of abortion is indeed a possible consequence of being pregnant. However, I doubt that is ever what you meant in all the times that you have claimed an abortion as a consequence.
wow, that's totally wrong. She cannot escape consequences if she gets pregnant. that is 100% fact. The bolded sentence proves it. Edit: and remember, she knows all this before having sex. She knows the options/conseq.

So the choices are ALL consequences...and some arent even a choice. Actions dont exclude consequences when consequences are the only action/choice there is.

You went on there about a bunch of irrelevant stuff. It's really simple. Really simple.



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Can women keep a contract?
 
Sperm donors, gestational surrogacy, traditional surrogacy Lol
And yet...they're not used for that and I've posted why they dont work. You can repeat yourself all you want...this is another huge failure on your part. They dont supersede the child's rights...if you think they can get around that...quote my post where they're explained and show how. Masq and I have shown you that in the other cases, there is someone that WILL be legally responsible for the kid at the time of birth.

But they are not precedents for what you are calling for since what you are calling for is an abdication of responsibility not a transfer of it. The precedencies all show a transfer of responsibility. Even the California ones.

Posts 1278 and 1305 Show you're wrong. Dispute those directly. Or dont bother because it's not worth your usual bobbing and weaving away from failure otherwise.






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We are going on circles

I want a NEW law
All well and good. And I could even write you that bill and submit it to a legislative body. But it will fail, if not on the floor, then in the courts for the very reasons we have been giving you. It will take a complete overhaul of basic rights and responsibilities in order to get it done. And keep in mind that based on what you presented, you are creating a path by which a woman may divest herself of parental responsibilities even without having an abortion.
 
And yet...they're not used for that and I've posted why they dont work. You can repeat yourself all you want...this is another huge failure on your part. They dont supersede the child's rights...if you think they can get around that...quote my post where they're explained and show how. Masq and I have shown you that in the other cases, there is someone that WILL be legally responsible for the kid at the time of birth.

Posts 1278 and 1305 Show you're wrong. Dispute those directly. Or dont bother because it's not worth your usual bobbing and weaving away from failure otherwise.




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Opinion noted and dismissed
 
All well and good. And I could even write you that bill and submit it to a legislative body. But it will fail, if not on the floor, then in the courts for the very reasons we have been giving you. It will take a complete overhaul of basic rights and responsibilities in order to get it done. And keep in mind that based on what you presented, you are creating a path by which a woman may divest herself of parental responsibilities even without having an abortion.
All civil rights are hard


We shall over come
 
All well and good. And I could even write you that bill and submit it to a legislative body. But it will fail, if not on the floor, then in the courts for the very reasons we have been giving you. It will take a complete overhaul of basic rights and responsibilities in order to get it done. And keep in mind that based on what you presented, you are creating a path by which a woman may divest herself of parental responsibilities even without having an abortion.
He just rolled over again. He went all "Mycroft" and gave up. 🤷 Predicted.

Pleasure to be done with him again. :)



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It takes a very special kind of asshole to not care about the needs of their child because somehow in their warped mind that makes them equal to women.
That is thinking with a dick not a brain.
 
It takes a very special kind of asshole to not care about the needs of their child because somehow in their warped mind that makes them equal to women.
That is thinking with a dick not a brain.
Whoo here is doing what you say?
 
Anyone who wants to "opt out" post conception.
so actually nobody then

but to follow up with that claim

does that include women who use safe haven laws and give their children up for adoption without notifying the father or is that magically different?
 
so actually nobody then
I did not accuse anyone.
but to follow up with that claim

does that include women who use safe haven laws and give their children up for adoption without notifying the father or is that magically different?
To be honest, I have not considered this scenario and am not clear of how that works. Does the father know about the baby and is just kept in the dark about the adoption? I am not certain that that is legal.
 
I did not accuse anyone.
my point was im unaware of anybody in this thread wanting or supporting legal equality when it comes to ppt out options or parental right based on what you said
many are fathers, me myself i hade full soul custody, i wouldnt opt out but that doesnt mean i dont support the option 🤷‍♂️

while i wont be taking to the streets to fight for this lol, i certainly wont call it anything else than what it factually is . . legally supported discrimination and inequality
To be honest, I have not considered this scenario and am not clear of how that works. Does the father know about the baby and is just kept in the dark about the adoption? I am not certain that that is legal.

the baby is born and

safe haven laws "typically" allow the mother to drop off a baby within a certain time at certain locations anonymously

also, a mother can give her child up for adoption and simply claim she doesnt know who the father is

those are two opt out options women have that men do not, they are forced if the woman wants meanwhile the woman could wait 10 years if she wants and then force the man also.

this is the unequal part that can be fixed, i highly doubt it will in my lifetime, but it could be and its the reason why its legally supported discrimination and inequality
 
To be honest, I have not considered this scenario and am not clear of how that works. Does the father know about the baby and is just kept in the dark about the adoption? I am not certain that that is legal.
In summary :): In Bodh's opt out proposal, to be signed before sex (some other poster may be going with the 'after sex' version), and BEFORE the birth, the man gets to opt out of all financial responsibility for any kids that come from 'their union.' (Because of abortion, women can 'opt out' of motherhood and "it's not fair!!!" that men cant opt out of fatherhood.) Except that:

--the woman has to sign it too :rolleyes: That'll signal what a keeper he is from the start, lol. It wont be so funny if she does get knocked up.

--the child has rights recognized by the state that supersede any such contract (as Bodh concedes already) and there's no public interest to deny the child's rights thru new law, since it harms kids and taxpayers.

--nothing will keep the father from contacting the kid (or the kid from contacting the father) further down the line. And he can still be involved in the kid's life. No court will stop that...because all agree that it's best for the kid to have the father involved in their lives. (I do too). Some states even let rapists apply for custody when they're released...they're certainly not going to stop non-criminals from being in their kids' lives.

Men will get out of all the responsibilities AND still get to be a father when they feel like it.

--it's basically a last-ditch effort to manipulate women into having abortions, because they're "informing her upfront that they will not be around to pay for the kid" since they know that they cant directly demand women get abortions.

@Bodhisattva Did I miss anything?



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--it's basically a last-ditch effort to manipulate women into having abortions, because they're "informing her upfront that they will not be around to pay for the kid" since they know that they cant directly demand women get abortions.

@Bodhisattva Did I miss anything?
no matter how many times you post this unhinged triggered meltdown lie there's not one fact that makes it true, not one.
disagree? factually prove otherwise, you won't cause you cant LMAO
 
my point was im unaware of anybody in this thread wanting or supporting legal equality when it comes to ppt out options or parental right based on what you said
many are fathers, me myself i hade full soul custody, i wouldnt opt out but that doesnt mean i dont support the option 🤷‍♂️

while i wont be taking to the streets to fight for this lol, i certainly wont call it anything else than what it factually is . . legally supported discrimination and inequality
we disagree on this.

the baby is born and


safe haven laws "typically" allow the mother to drop off a baby within a certain time at certain locations anonymously
If the father knows about the pregnancy then he has the right to custody if the mother does not want custody, but that should not free her of obligation of child support.

also, a mother can give her child up for adoption and simply claim she doesnt know who the father is
Claims and facts can differ at times. The "status" of the father must be ascertained.

those are two opt out options women have that men do not
If a woman gives up he child and the father agrees, then he is also free of the obligation. If the father wants the child then the point is moot.
 
we disagree on this.

If the father knows about the pregnancy then he has the right to custody if the mother does not want custody, but that should not free her of obligation of child support.

Claims and facts can differ at times. The "status" of the father must be ascertained.
If a woman gives up he child and the father agrees, then he is also free of the obligation. If the father wants the child then the point is moot.
Men and even couples can also use Safe Haven laws. And women are supposed to inform bio fathers if they put the kid up for adoption. If they do anyway, and the bio father finds out and wants the kid, he usually gets it...which would be horrible for a kid but again...the laws are still in the man's favor.

LOL not sure why facts would ever be considered 'rants.' Just because some find them inconvenient, well, too bad 🤷


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Men and even couples can also use Safe Haven laws. And women are supposed to inform bio fathers if they put the kid up for adoption. If they do anyway, and the bio father finds out and wants the kid, he usually gets it...which would be horrible for a kid but again...the laws are still in the man's favor.
That is what I suspected.
LOL not sure why facts would ever be considered 'rants.' Just because some find them inconvenient, well, too bad 🤷
Not sure what you mean here.
 
we disagree on this.
thats fine but theres not support for what you described in post 1359 and 1361 to be true in blanket form
If the father knows about the pregnancy then he has the right to custody if the mother does not want custody, but that should not free her of obligation of child support.


Claims and facts can differ at times. The "status" of the father must be ascertained.


If a woman gives up he child and the father agrees, then he is also free of the obligation. If the father wants the child then the point is moot.
this doesn't answer the questions at all

the reality is the father DOES NOT have to be notified for adoption and or safe haven laws, so do you support those two opt outs for the woman? yes or no
 
Men and even couples can also use Safe Haven laws.
again this is the dumbest thing you could ever post.
explain how a man uses safe haven laws WITHOUT the woman LMAO ready . . go!

😂 🍿
 
the reality is the father DOES NOT have to be notified for adoption and or safe haven laws, so do you support those two opt outs for the woman? yes or no
You will need to support that assertion before I can answer the questiopn.
 
You will need to support that assertion before I can answer the questiopn.
Single fathers can use Safe Haven laws. They have. The point is, the laws apply to both and it's equal. Lying about that is useless. The link I posted even said so.

Even for adoption, the law remains on men's side like I posted even if the woman does wrongly adopt the kid out without telling him. Their complaint is that the laws arent equal, but they are. That they're sexist...and they're not.



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Which laws not pertaining to abortion are sexist? Name some?


Same question applies to him so it's not valid. And you havent answered my questions, please do.


I'm not interested in your feelings here. They have nothing to do with the law. You have not yet told me why men dont act in their own best interests and CHOOSE not to have sex with a woman. And then you also wont explain why he shouldn't be held accountable for choosing to take that risk. Please answer these questions. I know that you wont...because then you cant keep blaming the women.



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Sexist: The law that says a man must be financially obligated to a woman's choice. Single motherhood is the new "trapping a man into marriage" routine - just without the marriage. What does that say about "modern" women that wasn't said about the man trapping women of times past? Women give financial reasons as the number one reason they have abortions. Money. Money. Money. She gets to opt out of the financial obligation of a child - so should the man. That isn't about abortion - it's about equality. You'd think a woman in such a precarious state of financial destitution wouldn't ever get near the risk of an unintended pregnancy.

As for holding men exclusively accountable? Because it's okay to slam men for making poor, stupid, and foolish choices? Is that what you want to hear? Equality can't be bantered around and parsed out to suit one side or the other when the mood fits and still be called "equal". Women choose money over their baby for their poor, stupid, and foolish choices - men should be allowed to do the same. I agree, any man who would have casual sex with a woman these days is stupid - just because of the nature of today's "modern" woman and the duplicity of her beliefs.

Equality is holding both parties equally responsible. She has an opt out choice where her lifestyle and finances can go on unimpeded. So unless you're willing to say no abortions**** and both parties are equally responsible to their offspring - you can't give her an opt out and not a man and call it equal - but then - it's power. not equality. that is desired in the first place. Your unwillingness to even consider that side is a clear indication power is the only consideration. Giving men the same choice would remove her safety net to reckless behavior. That can only be a good thing since it should result in a decrease in pregnancies that would have otherwise resulted in abortions. Minimal unintended pregnancies is a good thing and why I support men's right to choose.

And yes, women have 100% of the power to determine is sex is going to happen in the first place - regardless of how poor, stupid, and foolish a man may be in his sexual choices - hers still trumps his choice. This makes her choices more poor, more stupid, and more foolish than his. With all that power should come some level of responsibility for allowing the sexual contact to continue. She only has to say "no" to any advance a man may make. Otherwise, it's a crime.

If it's okay to slam men for listening to their little head then women can be equally slammed for listening to their nether regions too and using men as human vibrators to quell those region's desires.

You keep repeating the same thing over and over and over - how things are in the hear and now and how that should be abided by at all costs of inequality to men. This thread is supposed to be for talking about making significant changes to the status quo. What do you think will happen if men are given the same choice as women? Do you believe men won't step up to the plate and not make the choice to sever any obligation? If so, Why are women saying "yes" to sex with such men? Are they really only capable of making only poor, stupid, and foolish choices in the men they bed?

****When I say no abortions that doesn't include medical reasons. Abortion is a valid medical procedure that can and does save lives. Medical decisions are made on a daily basis where one person is let so that that another - or more - may live. Unfortunately abortion has been usurped into popular culture as a secondary birth control. Just like reconstructive surgery - a valid medical procedure - was usurped into pop culture to become "plastic" surgery. Abortion is just as plastic and, like actual plastic, it leaves a residue that will never decompose as it pollutes our culture forever.

Holding men accountable financially gives women a safety net. Ever consider that average people don't need safety nets? Safety nets are for people who like to engage in dangerous activities - not the Joe and Jane Schoms who have their feet on the ground. You don't need a safety net unless your life is a circus.
 
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