Portland protests return downtown as police use tear gas during overnight ‘riot’ Wednesday

[braindrain]

Has anyone bothered to ask these rioters what their concerns are and if they are the same concerns as the protestors?

Who the hell cares what the rioters concerns are. You should not be allowed to act like this and then have you wants considered.

If a bunch of KKK retards start rioting in the south should we start worrying about their wants and be scared we might upset them.

You and I both know your answer to that would be hell no.
Why should these clowns be any different.

Is it just because they are on the left.

 

[vanceen]

I would normally agree, but this doesn't seem like a usual situation, this has gone on this long, so these people seem to truly believe in their cause and I doubt force will persuade them otherwise.

This line of reasoning seems odd to me.

Assuming that the rioters are motivated by improper law enforcement practices (which is dubious, but grant it for the sake of argument), it doesn't follow that it's therefore a good idea to suspend law enforcement altogether in their case.

Once someone starts destroying and stealing property, thereby hurting innocent people, their motives are a secondary concern. They have to be stopped.

I've seen evidence that at least some of the protestors are opposed to the rioting because it hurts their cause. I think they're right.

 

[Slartibartfast]

This line of reasoning seems odd to me.

Assuming that the rioters are motivated my improper law enforcement practices (which is dubious, but grant it for the sake of argument), it doesn't follow that it's therefore a good idea to suspend law enforcement altogether in their case.

Once someone starts destroying and stealing property, thereby hurting innocent people, their motives are a secondary concern. They have to be stopped.

I've seen evidence that at least some of the protestors are opposed to the rioting because it hurts their cause. I think they're right.

Do you think they are rioting for another reason? This all got started with Floyd.

 

[braindrain]

Because the riots are growing to other areas which indicates a deeper issue that noone is looking at or addressing. If you shut these people down by force, they don't simply go away, they will simply just go underground and be a bigger problem in the future.

Do you honestly think rewarding people for rioting will not lead to more rioting when they want something else.

Should that be the new standard on how we decide what direction this country goes. Who riots the most.

 

[Helix]

do not gather in crowds during a pandemic.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Who the hell cares what the rioters concerns are. You should not be allowed to act like this and then have you wants considered.

If a bunch of KKK retards start rioting in the south should we start worrying about their wants and be scared we might upset them.

You and I both know your answer to that would be hell no.
Why should these clowns be any different.

Is it just because they are on the left.

If the KKK had a sustained riot for over three months and police response did not quell it, then yes, there should be creative solutions to it.

Because at that point, if there is a sudden use of force, a lot of people on both sides will be harmed or worse.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Do you honestly think rewarding people for rioting will not lead to more rioting when they want something else.

Should that be the new standard on how we decide what direction this country goes. Who riots the most.

That is a good point actually.

 

[vanceen]

Do you think they are rioting for another reason? This all got started with Floyd.

That is a diversion. As I said in my post, you can go ahead and assume that is their motive (though I doubt that's correct).

The point is that their motives aren't relevant once they cross the line to destruction, stealing, and thereby hurting innocent people.

 

[braindrain]

Perhaps it is a local culture thing that I am not aware of. I don't support it personally and think there are better ways to make one's voice heard, but at the same time, if they have gone on this long, they must feel their concerns are legitimate.

Or it could be they realized they were being allowed to act like hoodlums with zero consequences and decided to keep having fun.

They rioted for 3 days after trump was elected. Sorry loosing an election is not justification to riot.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Or it could be they realized they were being allowed to act like hoodlums with zero consequences and decided to keep having fun.

They rioted for 3 days after trump was elected. Sorry loosing an election is not justification to riot.

So in your opinion, its basically a party?

 

[vanceen]

So in your opinion, its basically a party?

You keep trying to channel the discussion into an analysis of their motives.

To answer your question above, if the Klan rioted for months and police weren't able to quell it, it would be necessary to apply adequate additional force to stop it. (That's effectively what Grant did with the Klan in the 1870's, and it worked.) People are getting hurt already.

 

[braindrain]

I would normally agree, but this doesn't seem like a usual situation, this has gone on this long, so these people seem to truly believe in their cause and I doubt force will persuade them otherwise.

When a city has a well know history of their youth acting this way and the the city for political reasons decides to look the other way and allow it to continue with zero repercussions why exactly should the people who are having great fun acting like anarchists stop exactly. If it was fun the first day why would it not be fun the 75th.

 

[Slartibartfast]

You keep trying to channel the discussion into an analysis of their motives.

To answer your question above, if the Klan rioted for months and police weren't able to quell it, it would be necessary to apply adequate additional force to stop it. (That's effectively what Grant did with the Klan in the 1870's, and it worked.) People are getting hurt already.

I am looking for peaceful solutions and am trying to be creative. However, I will admit this is far from my area of expertise.

 

[braindrain]

There may be history outside of this three month window I am not aware of, what are you referring to?

Most recently that I remember they rioted for three days after Trump was elected. The antifa movement in Portland is probably the strongest in the country.

Portland has a long history of this.

 

[braindrain]

Do you think they are rioting for another reason? This all got started with Floyd.

Do you honestly think the POS dressed up as antifa and bring weapons and other stuff with the intent of destroying property really care about Floyd.

I think you are naive.

Tell me do you think that the reason most of the people rioting after a soccer game really care that much about the score or are using it as a opportunity to act out.

Are the people looting big screen TVs in other places protesting police.

 

[Slartibartfast]

When a city has a well know history of their youth acting this way and the the city for political reasons decides to look the other way and allow it to continue with zero repercussions why exactly should the people who are having great fun acting like anarchists stop exactly. If it was fun the first day why would it not be fun the 75th.

It is certainly a theory, but that idea is not supported by any news articles I have seen.

 

[braindrain]

If the KKK had a sustained riot for over three months and police response did not quell it, then yes, there should be creative solutions to it.

Because at that point, if there is a sudden use of force, a lot of people on both sides will be harmed or worse.

When the police response was to basically do nothing why should they stop.

And there is a difference between a creative solutions to stop rioting and worrying about the demands of the rioters which is what you said we should do in Portland. So are we going to start adding the demands of the KKK to US law if they riot enough.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Do you honestly think the POS dressed up as antifa and bring weapons and other stuff with the intent of destroying property really care about Floyd.

I think you are naive.

Tell me do you think that the reason most of the people rioting after a soccer game really care that much about the score or are using it as a opportunity to act out.

Are the people looting big screen TVs in other places protesting police.

Then you must think I am naive then. There are plenty of news articles that have interviewed both rioters and protestors about their motivations.

 

[braindrain]

So in your opinion, its basically a party?

Having lived outside Seattle for almost a decade and knowing a lot of people from Portland that is exactly what it is for most of the rioters.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Most recently that I remember they rioted for three days after Trump was elected. The antifa movement in Portland is probably the strongest in the country.

Portland has a long history of this.

I caught that there were riots in recently, in 2016, and then 50 years ago, its not exactly a consistent history.

 

[Slartibartfast]

When the police response was to basically do nothing why should they stop.

And there is a difference between a creative solutions to stop rioting and worrying about the demands of the rioters which is what you said we should do in Portland. So are we going to start adding the demands of the KKK to US law if they riot enough.

I would agree that legislation would simply be capitulation, however, there is, in my opinion, a feeling of legitimate grievance as well.

 

[braindrain]

It is certainly a theory, but that idea is not supported by any news articles I have seen.

You probably don’t see a lot of news articles saying the people looting big screen TVs are not worried about Floyd’s death either. Does that mean that his death is why they need that tv.

 

[braindrain]

Then you must think I am naive then. There are plenty of news articles that have interviewed both rioters and protestors about their motivations.

Do you honestly expect the rioters to say no I don’t care about police use of force. I was just having fun.

Come on now.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Do you honestly expect the rioters to say no I don’t care about police use of force. I was just having fun.

Come on now.

At minimum there would be videos, yes, people can be quite candid on youtube or tiktok for example.

 

[Slartibartfast]

You probably don’t see a lot of news articles saying the people looting big screen TVs are not worried about Floyd’s death either. Does that mean that his death is why they need that tv.

There is opportunism during protests, sure, but I am sure all the TVs are gone by now, why didn't the riots stop when people ran out of stuff?