Poor better off in red states?

[eman623]

Alabama has the 4th highest sales tax in the country...

4th highest? That seems wrong. I count 36 states with higher sales tax rates here: Sales Tax Rates By State 2019 - Tax-Rates.org

 

[eman623]

Of Alabama's 67 counties, 11 have a poverty rate higher than 25%. Seven counties have a poverty rate higher than 30%. The national poverty rate is 12.3%

This is also misleading due to the "one size fits all" nature of how we calculate poverty.

The federal poverty rate for a family of 4 is $24,750 (Federal Poverty Level (FPL) - HealthCare.gov Glossary | HealthCare.gov). But a family making that much in Alabama will live much better than a family of 4 making $35K in California.

 

[SheWolf]

This is a complex issue. A common meme is that red are welfare states. These stats can be really deceiving. For example Florida has millions of retirees that came from the north. They get entitlements but can we really blame thst on Florida policies. There is also issues like military bases like in Alabama etc that obscure the numbers. We get federal dollars because of that. Lots of issues.


But consider a poor person in Alabama where I am from. I live near the Birmingham metro area. There is no big homeless problem here. And the poor have much lower housing costs and their entitlements food stamps etc go much further, very low inflation, living costs here compared to Cali.

It seems homelessness is an epidemic in Cali. People who live in bubbles and only read certain perspectives might have vastly wrong impressions about life in these two places. Not much racial stuff happens here either. Been getting along with blacks all my life. Rarely have ever seen racial stuff.

Go to the malls and you see blacks and whites shopping, blacks date whites regular these days, nobody cares. Those days are long past. Some probably have this crazy vision of a place like Alabama in that regard.

You’re trying to argue red states are not welfare states, but you point out the low cost of living in your state means food stamps and entitlements go further. Housing costs are low for a reason. I also hear the south, especially Mississippi and Alabama have high teen pregnancy rates.

Statistically, teenage mothers often end up single mothers, and their earning potential is a lot lower than their peers.

 

[ataraxia]

You know what backwards false stereotypes you ranted about, don’t feign ignorance.

You mean the basic laws of economics?

 

[ataraxia]

Extreme income inequality is far and away a blue state thing. It's only in the liberal coastal enclaves that you have people with six-figure incomes and million dollar homes rubbing shoulders with people whose job is begging at the freeway offramp and their home is a tent alongside a railroad track somewhere.

That’s because in red states everybody is poor- hardly anything to emulate.

 

[ataraxia]

Plus not crapping on the streets

I bet you there is more incest in red states than there is crapping on the streets in blue states. What’s worse?

 

[ataraxia]

You know what backwards false stereotypes you ranted about, don’t feign ignorance.

Are you mean like everyone crapping on the streets in blue states? Oh wait, that was your stereotype.

Read states being more affordable because of less demand? Not so much hate-filled stereotype as just a basic economic reality.

I assume next you are going to tell us that the unanimous consensus of every single scientific organization on the entire planet on climate change is a hateful stereotype too. Oh wait, sorry.

Don’t you hate how even reality has such a liberal MSM bias?

 

[eman623]

That’s because in red states everybody is poor- hardly anything to emulate.

If everyone is poor, then no one is.

One of the left's biggest concerns is income inequality, yet it is worst in the places they live. Why is that?

 

[ataraxia]

If everyone is poor, then no one is.

One of the left's biggest concerns is income inequality, yet it is worst in the places they live. Why is that?

One of the right’s biggest concerns is economic productivity. Why are you defending the lack of it? California alone dwarfs the GDP of all the red states, put together. And they are supposed to be the lazy ones living off the government teat?

 

[eman623]

One of the right’s biggest concerns is economic productivity. Why are you defending the lack of it? California alone dwarfs the GDP of all the red states, put together.

Whataboutry and a red herring.

Is extreme income inequality something to emulate? It must be because the Blue states are doing a lot of it.

 

[ataraxia]

Whataboutry.

Is extreme income inequality something to emulate? It must be because the Blue states are doing a lot of it.

The left has tried to push forward policies to fix income equality: Progressive taxation, minimum-wage, Basic social safety nets, etc....

Other than advacating poverty for everyone, what policy do you think the right has advocated to address this?

 

[ataraxia]

Is extreme income inequality something to emulate?

I don’t know. Why don’t you ask the Koch brothers?

 

[eman623]

The left has tried to push forward policies to fix income equality: Progressive taxation, minimum-wage, Basic social safety nets, etc....

Other than advacating poverty for everyone, what policy has the right advocated to address this?

Additional whataboutery also ignored.

The left has failed in its effort to address income inequality. If that is trying, then it is not trying very hard.

 

[eman623]

I don’t know. Why don’t you ask the Koch brothers?

Another red herring. You are chock full of logical fallacies today.

I'm asking you. Why is income inequality the worst in blue states?

 

[Moot]

4th highest? That seems wrong. I count 36 states with higher sales tax rates here: Sales Tax Rates By State 2019 - Tax-Rates.org

This source says Alabama ranks 5th highest sales tax at 9.16%...which is a combined tax rate that includes state and local sales taxes. In some areas of Alabama it can go as high as 11%.

State and Local Sales Tax Rates, Midyear 2019 | Tax Foundation

This source also ranks Alabama as 5th highest sales tax......

Why Alabama Has Some of the Nation's Highest Average Sales and Local Tax Rates

This is also misleading due to the "one size fits all" nature of how we calculate poverty.

The federal poverty rate for a family of 4 is $24,750 (Federal Poverty Level (FPL) - HealthCare.gov Glossary | HealthCare.gov). But a family making that much in Alabama will live much better than a family of 4 making $35K in California.

Not with a 9% to 11% tax on food and utilities they wouldn't.

"Alabama is the sixth poorest state in the U.S., and 16.9% of Alabamians live below the federal poverty threshold – a noticeably larger percentage than the national average of 13.4%. The federal poverty threshold ranges from $12,488 for one person to $25,094 for a family of four..."
2019 Poverty Data Sheet: 800,000 Alabamians Live Below Poverty Threshold - Alabama Possible


Alabama's poverty rate of 16.9% is more than three points higher than the national average of 13.4%.

Alabama median income...$48,123. National median income....$60,336.

Alabama per capita income...$26,498. National per capita income..$32,397

 

[eman623]

This source says Alabama ranks 5th highest sales tax at 9.16%...which is a combined tax rate that includes state and local sales taxes. In some areas of Alabama it can go as high as 11%.

State and Local Sales Tax Rates, Midyear 2019 | Tax Foundation

This source also ranks Alabama as 5th highest sales tax......

Why Alabama Has Some of the Nation's Highest Average Sales and Local Tax Rates

Interesting.

Not with a 9% to 11% tax on food and utilities they wouldn't.

"Alabama is the sixth poorest state in the U.S., and 16.9% of Alabamians live below the federal poverty threshold – a noticeably larger percentage than the national average of 13.4%. The federal poverty threshold ranges from $12,488 for one person to $25,094 for a family of four..."
2019 Poverty Data Sheet: 800,000 Alabamians Live Below Poverty Threshold - Alabama Possible


Alabama's poverty rate of 16.9% is more than three points higher than the national average of 13.4%.

Alabama median income...$48,123. National median income....$60,336.

Alabama per capita income...$26,498. National per capita income..$32,397

Even with a 9 to 11% sales tax rate it's a lot easier to live in Alabama on a $24,750 income than in California on $35K.

The effective sales tax rate here in San Jose is 9.25% which is comparable to Alabama. But the real killer is housing. The average monthly rent of a two bedroom house in California is $2598 compared to $1036 for Alabama. Basically at $24K/yr you're spending about 50% of your income on rent in Alabama vs about 85% in California even with $35K/yr.

https://www.gobankingrates.com/investing/real-estate/average-rent-every-state/

 

[ataraxia]

Another red herring. You are chock full of logical fallacies today.

I'm asking you. Why is income inequality the worst in blue states?

Because they have money to actually be unequal. At least they are trying to do something about it.

If that’s such a problem for you, are you labeling yourself a “conservative”? Those are the folks who not only have no solutions, but actively torpedo and sabotage your first act doing something about it? You don’t even want to try?

It doesn’t make any sense. Please help me understand.

 

[Simpletruther]

Are you mean like everyone crapping on the streets in blue states? Oh wait, that was your stereotype.

Read states being more affordable because of less demand? Not so much hate-filled stereotype as just a basic economic reality.

I assume next you are going to tell us that the unanimous consensus of every single scientific organization on the entire planet on climate change is a hateful stereotype too. Oh wait, sorry.

Don’t you hate how even reality has such a liberal MSM bias?

You can backpeddle and hide from your words but they are public record, such woke ness and love.

 

[Simpletruther]

You’re trying to argue red states are not welfare states, but you point out the low cost of living in your state means food stamps and entitlements go further. Housing costs are low for a reason. I also hear the south, especially Mississippi and Alabama have high teen pregnancy rates.

Statistically, teenage mothers often end up single mothers, and their earning potential is a lot lower than their peers.

Those are valid points. I am just pointing out preconceptions and prejudices color our imagine of things.

Income inequality is a big liberal thing, yet it is the two most liberal states with vastly the most of it (NY and Cali) where billionaires step over homeless people on the way to the brunches.

Meanwhile a working poor family in Alabama has a much more affluent lifestyle than the same family in these places. Things are not always what we imagine.

Alabama isn’t a paradise. But it is probably NOTHING like some people’s images of backwards rednecks with white hoods and outhouses. There is no doubt better race relations here than most big northern cities. Blacks date and marry whites, whites marry Hispanics all the time, nobody cares. Those things are decades in the past but some wouldn’t know it given the political rhetoric.


There is structural poverty in many rural poor Alabama counties though. But we have one of the most advanced medical universities in the country (UAB). We are world renowned for our heart specialists in Birmingham.

 

[ataraxia]

You can backpeddle and hide from your words but they are public record, such woke ness and love.

From what words? That GOP policies have left the red states in poverty? Or that they sabotage all attempts to address income inequality?

Tell us what the GOP solutions have been.

 

[eman623]

Because they have money to actually be unequal. At least they are trying to do something about it.

If that’s such a problem for you, are you labeling yourself a “conservative”? Those are the folks who not only have no solutions, but actively torpedo and sabotage your first act doing something about it? You don’t even want to try?

It doesn’t make any sense. Please help me understand.

And now ad-hominum. This is not about how I label myself. Your bucket list of logical fallacies in this thread is impressive.

Saying "they are unequal because the have money to be unequal" is a cop-out. The Scandinavian countries are rich but don't have the extreme income inequality that blue states have.

 

[eman623]

You can backpeddle and hide from your words but they are public record, such woke ness and love.

The notion that there are hordes of poor homeless people in the Deep South is just not true. In fact, Mississippi does lead the nation in one thing - it has the least per-capita number of homeless in the country. The states with the most are NY, HI, OR, CA, WA. All rich coastal enclaves where you find extremes of wealth and poverty.

Map: How many homeless Americans there are in each state - Business Insider

 

[Simpletruther]

The notion that there are hordes of poor homeless people in the Deep South is just not true. In fact, Mississippi does lead the nation in one thing - it has the least per-capita number of homeless in the country. The states with the most are NY, HI, OR, CA, WA. All rich coastal enclaves where you find extremes of wealth and poverty.

Map: How many homeless Americans there are in each state - Business Insider

The blue states definitely have a massive wealth inequality issue.

 

[ataraxia]

And now ad-hominum. This is not about how I label myself. Your bucket list of logical fallacies in this thread is impressive.

Saying "they are unequal because the have money to be unequal" is a cop-out. The Scandinavian countries are rich but don't have the extreme income inequality that blue states have.

Obviously, you don’t like the solutions the Scandinavian countries have offered. What are you a Bernie Sanders supporter? Because he has proposed him. Are you planning on voting for him?