Poll: Don’t Extend Bush Cuts for Wealthy

[AdamT]

many times they sell before they die because of the estate tax
as much money is spent avoiding the death tax as is collected


that someone is not hit by the death tax does not mean they were not affected by it

insurance brokers and trust and estate lawyers love the death tax-I know the sort of fees my parents paid to lessen the parasitic death tax on their estates

Hopefully you realize that this would be clawed back if it was done to avoid estate taxes.

 

[AdamT]

Then cease your hypocritical demands that others children uphold moral codes that you yourself refuse. Demand not of others that which you are not willing to give yourself.

Have I suggested that I should be exempt from the laws that I propose? No.

 

[AdamT]

From your link:

"CBO found that of the very few farms estates that would owe any tax under the 2009 parameters, all but a handful would have sufficient liquid assets on hand (such as bank accounts, stocks, and bonds) to pay the tax without having to touch the farm or business..."

So what of these 'very few' or 'a handful'? Because most are unaffected the few that are should just deal with it? I thought the 'left' protests for the minority, was I mistaken?

You're certainly mistaken if you think that ANY law won't have adverse consequences for at least a handful of people.

In any case, the link also says that no one has been able to come up with an actual example of a family farm that had to be sold.

 

[TurtleDude]

Hopefully you realize that this would be clawed back if it was done to avoid estate taxes.

Uh you are unable to understand stuff

people buy life insurance to soften the blow

I and my wife can give my son a certain amount each year. what many of us do is have him buy insurance on both of us with what we give him. so when we pass he has a ton of money to pay the death taxes. Now if the death tax is abolished as it should be-he will have our estate and the insurance money there are other trust mechanisms that can soften the government parasite. indeed, many of the parasite advocates claim that the death tax only hurts rich people not smart enough to plan for the future

the only way the death tax remains is that it only affects about 1-2% of the population, the dems realized if they tried to make it cover more people, the dems would be destroyed in the polls and I suspect if someone got it enacted into law for all people they'd get "lee harvey oswalded"

 

[AdamT]

Uh you are unable to understand stuff

people buy life insurance to soften the blow

I and my wife can give my son a certain amount each year. what many of us do is have him buy insurance on both of us with what we give him. so when we pass he has a ton of money to pay the death taxes. Now if the death tax is abolished as it should be-he will have our estate and the insurance money there are other trust mechanisms that can soften the government parasite. indeed, many of the parasite advocates claim that the death tax only hurts rich people not smart enough to plan for the future

the only way the death tax remains is that it only affects about 1-2% of the population, the dems realized if they tried to make it cover more people, the dems would be destroyed in the polls and I suspect if someone got it enacted into law for all people they'd get "lee harvey oswalded"

So everyone's a winner. The government gets its revenue, the kids get their unearned income, and everyone's happy.

 

[TurtleDude]

So everyone's a winner. The government gets its revenue, the kids get their unearned income, and everyone's happy.

the government should not get any of that and if we got rid of the death tax, lots of money wasted in avoiding it would be used for more productive things

 

[AdamT]

the government should not get any of that and if we got rid of the death tax, lots of money wasted in avoiding it would be used for more productive things

If we had a stronger death tax lots more would be put to productive use. The first thing we should do is eliminate the exclusion for insurance proceeds.

 

[TurtleDude]

If we had a stronger death tax lots more would be put to productive use. The first thing we should do is eliminate the exclusion for insurance proceeds.

If the kid pays for them there is no exclusion. I guess you couldn't figure that out-what you really want is all gifts to be taxed as income


I think what should really happen is the rich liberals figure out what people like you want and those rich liberals unite with people like me and use our collective power to eliminate the death tax and to retaliate against those who want it to be increased

 

[washunut]

I think that there should be a generous tax free amount that you can gift -- say $1 million per beneficiary -- with a very high tax on any amount over that.

There is no evidence that I'm aware of that indicates that people work less hard when estate taxes are high. Of course everyone wants the best for their children, but IMO that's not why the very rich become very rich.

Well when you use a threshold of 1 million you conflate very rich with a middle income earner that has saved. In the Northeast a home for a family probably averages $500K in many areas. Also remember that under Bernanke/Geithner 10 year treasuries are at about 1.6% so if you had 1 million in cash to supplement social security you have collect 16K. So unless you are part of a government union under your conditions people barely getting by are considered rich.

 

[upsideguy]

Hint: It wouldn't work with Obama because, like other rich people, he's busy finding as many tax shelters as he can to give his daughters as much as he can.

Organizing your affairs to minimize your tax burden is your right. That doesn't mean the tax is a bad tax.... though having too many loopholes in a tax tends to make it a bad tax. The best thing to do on the estate is to tax estates. It should come with a $3 to $5million exemption. The $1M is much too small.

 

[Dickieboy]

You're certainly mistaken if you think that ANY law won't have adverse consequences for at least a handful of people.

Please point out where I 'think' that...I was questioning your opinion as to what of these 'very few' or 'a handful'. Am I overstepping to paraphrase your response to be ‘so what’ or ‘just deal with it’ (as I previously implied)?

In any case, the link also says that no one has been able to come up with an actual example of a family farm that had to be sold.

No, it doesn't. From your link:

Opponents of the estate tax have not been able... the American Farm Bureau Federation...

Opponents and AFBF do not constitute 'no one' but merely a select few...try again

 

[Dickieboy]

If we had a stronger death tax lots more would be put to productive use.

By who?...

 

[AdamT]

Please point out where I 'think' that...I was questioning your opinion as to what of these 'very few' or 'a handful'. Am I overstepping to paraphrase your response to be ‘so what’ or ‘just deal with it’ (as I previously implied)?

Yes, that was by way of saying that every law has a negative impact on someone. If a few people out of 300 million get a raw deal, as may or may not be the case here, that's the price you pay. This was in answer to your strawman argument.

No, it doesn't. From your link:

Opponents of the estate tax have not been able... the American Farm Bureau Federation...

Opponents and AFBF do not constitute 'no one' but merely a select few...try again

Opponents of the estate tax are the ones making the claim that family farmers are being savaged. If that's your argument don't you think it's incumbent upon you to show at least ONE example of it occurring? Doesn't your argument get flushed with the other refuse if you can't?

 

[AdamT]

By who?...

By everyone who would benefit from lower income taxes.

 

[Dickieboy]

This was in answer to your strawman argument.

Which was?

 

[Dickieboy]

Opponents of the estate tax are the ones making the claim that family farmers are being savaged. If that's your argument don't you think it's incumbent upon you to show at least ONE example of it occurring? Doesn't your argument get flushed with the other refuse if you can't?

Ok, here:

In 2000, when the effective estate tax exemption amount was $675,000, 138 (or about 8 percent) of the estates of farmers who left enough assets to owe estate taxes faced a tax payment that exceeded their liquid assets, compared with about 5 percent of all estates that owed taxes.

https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/f...108xx/doc10841/12-18-estate_gifttax_brief.pdf

While this does not comply with your specific request of ‘at least ONE example of it occurring’ the CBO stating there were 138 should cause pause to realize that it DOES happen…

 

[Dickieboy]

By everyone who would benefit from lower income taxes.

So is it your supposition that if we raised estate tax rates we can lower income tax rates? REALLY? At a time when we are running ~30% annual deficits which considering ALL projections will continue for ????

 

[AdamT]

Ok, here:

In 2000, when the effective estate tax exemption amount was $675,000, 138 (or about 8 percent) of the estates of farmers who left enough assets to owe estate taxes faced a tax payment that exceeded their liquid assets, compared with about 5 percent of all estates that owed taxes.

https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/f...108xx/doc10841/12-18-estate_gifttax_brief.pdf

While this does not comply with your specific request of ‘at least ONE example of it occurring’ the CBO stating there were 138 should cause pause to realize that it DOES happen…

Just saying that the tax applied does not mean that they were forced to sell the farm.

 

[AdamT]

So is it your supposition that if we raised estate tax rates we can lower income tax rates? REALLY? At a time when we are running ~30% annual deficits which considering ALL projections will continue for ????

More likely it would allow income taxes to be raised less than they otherwise would be. Same effect.

 

[AdamT]

Which was?

"I thought the 'left' protests for the minority, was I mistaken?"

So, part straw man part false dichotomy.

 

[Dickieboy]

"I thought the 'left' protests for the minority, was I mistaken?"

So, part straw man part false dichotomy.

Noted...thanks for the insight.

 

[Billy the Kid]

If the Bush tax cuts are not extended, all those paying taxes will pay more.

 

[cpwill]

Have I suggested that I should be exempt from the laws that I propose? No.

you have argued that the law flows from moral values that you refuse to hold yourself to. Specifically you have argued that no one deserves to enjoy the fruits of others labor, and you have made that argument while enjoying the fruits of others' labor.

 

[cpwill]

So everyone's a winner. The government gets its revenue, the kids get their unearned income, and everyone's happy.

You realized the system he just described was exceedingly inefficient? That this is why the estate tax imposes costs roughly analogous to what it brings in? That what he just described was reducing productivity?

 

[AdamT]

you have argued that the law flows from moral values that you refuse to hold yourself to. Specifically you have argued that no one deserves to enjoy the fruits of others labor, and you have made that argument while enjoying the fruits of others' labor.

I never said that no one deserves to enjoy the fruits of others labor. What I specifically said was that people should be able to pass on a generous bequest tax free and there should be a heavy tax on amounts above that generous number.