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Political Issue Across the Axis: Gun Control

Zyphlin

Zyphlin

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Hey everyone. Since The Loft was kind of my baby and its not getting a ton of use, I figured I'd give a shot at starting up an interesting discussion down here. In a thread on the main level I talked about Centrists and Moderates on the political axis and it gave me the idea for a series of threads. If this first one goes good, I'll hopefully start some more.

The point of this thread is to take a particular issue and try to give an honest, non-caricatured, assessment of what you think a Far Left / Solidly Left / Moderate / Solidly Right / Far Right position would be. You can speak from ideological terms or specific policies or a mix; that's up to you. The key however is to try to be as honest as you can about it. The hope here is three fold:

1. It's a good exercise for the individual to try and better understand both their own views and the views of others that think differently
2. It's a chance to see how people different than you view themselves, their views, and the views of others
3. Together that will lead both to better understanding and better debating, as understanding how your opposition thinks enables for more persuasive points

To not influence people, I'm going to suggest everyone post their thoughts under spoiler tags (More options all the way to the right, then the little crossed out eye ball). No looking until you post yours. My thought is to create a second post for actual DISCUSSION of peoples views. Here would be the Template (If you'd like, you could give two examples of a Moderate view, a "left leaning" and "right leaning"

[ SPOILER ] (remove the spaces)

SELF IDENTIFY AS: [FL / SL / M / SR / FR]

FAR LEFT VIEW:

SOLIDLY LEFT VIEW:

MODERATE VIEW:

SOLIDLY RIGHT VIEW:

FAR RIGHT VIEW:

[ /SPOILER ] (remove the spaces)

If this goes well every few days or weeks I'll put up a different contentious issue.
 
Being British I'd most likely have a far left view about guns as I think the UK has it right.
Guns are simply not needed or wanted.
 
SELF IDENTIFY AS: Moderate, leaning right on this issue

FAR LEFT VIEW: A ban on all firearms, or at least everything but hunting rifles. This would be done either through directly banning them, or an end around (such as banning ammunition, making it so one can't practically use said firearm anywhere, etc). "Illegal" firearms would be confiscated and anyone resisting or found with an illegal one would find significant prison time. Gun manufacturers would be held criminally liable for any deaths occurring utilizing any weapon they made.

SOLIDLY LEFT VIEW: A ban on "assault weapons" and high capacity magazines / pistols. Extremely strict regulation limiting the ability to carry outside of the home and increasing the cost of weapons to limit their proliferation. Registration of firearms to better track when and how they're sold, and requiring all sales to be registered to be legal. Limits on the amount of firearms and ammunition one can own. Manufacturers should be allowed to be held civilly liable for deaths depending on the circumstances.

MODERATE VIEW: Limitations on the purchases of high capacity magazines or weapons, or "assault" style weapons and mods, but not an outright ban. Required firearm training prior to purchasing a gun. Concealed carry reciprocal across states, but certain locations (schools, bars, etc) should not allow them to be present. System set up where private sellers can run background checks, and said system should be required for private sales. Focus more on taking down illegal gun trafficking than on making lawful purchases harder.

SOLIDLY RIGHT VIEW: Very little limits on the style of firearms you can own, though background checks and waiting periods are fine. Private sells should be legal, but you can be held responsible for selling an illegal gun privately. Concealed carry should be baseline allowed, though limits for most people in terms of locations is reasonable. However, we should allow those working in said locations to carry if they wish for protection to deter possible shooters. Basic background checks are fine, but there shouldn't be a significant delay.

FAR RIGHT VIEW: You should be able to own any weapon you'd like so long as you can purchase it. The government shouldn't be involved in any purchase, private seller or public. Carrying openly or concealed should be able to occur anywhere without any sort of government licensing for it. The more firearms in more hands the better for society.
 
Zyphlin said:
Hey everyone. Since The Loft was kind of my baby and its not getting a ton of use, I figured I'd give a shot at starting up an interesting discussion down here. In a thread on the main level I talked about Centrists and Moderates on the political axis and it gave me the idea for a series of threads. If this first one goes good, I'll hopefully start some more.

The point of this thread is to take a particular issue and try to give an honest, non-caricatured, assessment of what you think a Far Left / Solidly Left / Moderate / Solidly Right / Far Right position would be. You can speak from ideological terms or specific policies or a mix; that's up to you. The key however is to try to be as honest as you can about it. The hope here is three fold:

1. It's a good exercise for the individual to try and better understand both their own views and the views of others that think differently
2. It's a chance to see how people different than you view themselves, their views, and the views of others
3. Together that will lead both to better understanding and better debating, as understanding how your opposition thinks enables for more persuasive points

To not influence people, I'm going to suggest everyone post their thoughts under spoiler tags (More options all the way to the right, then the little crossed out eye ball). No looking until you post yours. My thought is to create a second post for actual DISCUSSION of peoples views. Here would be the Template (If you'd like, you could give two examples of a Moderate view, a "left leaning" and "right leaning"

[ SPOILER ] (remove the spaces)

SELF IDENTIFY AS: [FL / SL / M / SR / FR]

FAR LEFT VIEW:

SOLIDLY LEFT VIEW:

MODERATE VIEW:

SOLIDLY RIGHT VIEW:

FAR RIGHT VIEW:

[ /SPOILER ] (remove the spaces)

If this goes well every few days or weeks I'll put up a different contentious issue.
Click to expand...
I would suggest that your far left view is not accurate. I'm as far left as almost anyone on this platform and I've never considered substantial jail terms or holding gum manufacturers liable for every death. I am in favor of repealing or amending the PLCAA.

May I ask why you use a racial epithet as your avatar?
 
SELF IDENTIFY AS: Far left/Socialist

FAR LEFT VIEW: Firearms are a tool for the oppressed to resist oppression and tyranny. The state and the police should not have a monopoly on violence. There should be few restrictions to prevent those restrictions from being weaponized to disproportionately disarm minorities.

SOLIDLY LEFT VIEW: Firearms are a net harm to society. On average the proliferation of guns in society only leads to preventable excess deaths. Guns should be banned outside of possibly and if they are allowed they cannot be stored in the home.

MODERATE VIEW: Individuals have a right to have the tools to defend themselves and their family, but that doesn't rule out "common sense" gun laws. Something needs to be done to reduce mass shootings, like raising the age to purchase a rifle to 21, red flag laws, and universal background checks.

SOLIDLY RIGHT VIEW: Every American is guaranteed the right to own a firearm by the constitution. Many of our current gun laws, like magazine size limits, are unconstitutional and should be overturned. An armed populace is needed to keep the federal government in check. As they say, the 2nd amendment protects the 1st.

FAR RIGHT VIEW: Our country is being ruined by immigrants and gang violence. We need to crack down on illegal firearm purchases and make sure our country's law abiding business and home owners have the means to protect their property from the criminal aliens and gangs. We need stricter restrictions and more vetting to make sure the only the right people are able to own firearms.
 
Self Identify as: I am a moderate liberal. I grew up and spent my life as very liberal, but the extremes on both ends are so far out now that I guess I fall pretty solidly in the middle.

Far Left View: Significant restrictions on the sale and manufacture of assault style weapons and some handguns. Expanded background checks and expanding somewhat those who cannot own guns. Significant restrictions on accessories("bump stocks" eg) and some ammo types.

Solidly Left View: Significant restrictions on the sale and manufacture of assault style weapons. Slight expansion of background checks. Some limits on accessories.

Moderate View: Expansion of background checks and possibly some restrictions on sale and manufacture of assault style weapons

Solid Right View: Reduction in limits to firearm ownership and concealed carry(I lack to know enough on gun issues to give concrete examples really). Teachers should be armed.

Far Right View: Elimination of background checks as unconstitutional. Concealer carry for all, and should be able to carry, concealed or not, virtually anywhere. More guns = more safe.



As I made my post, I saw a large problem with this exercise: It forces simple descriptions of complex thoughts and an assumption of a level of granularity between points on the political compass that really are not that granular. I am not sure if highlighting that issue is part of your purpose with this exercise or not.
 
I was missing the exercise portion of this, but I'll play, as I think that more activity in the Loft is a good plan.
SELF IDENTIFY AS: Moderate

FAR LEFT VIEW: Repeal the Second Amendment! Ban firearms!

SOLIDLY LEFT VIEW: The rights of gun-toters need to be severely limited for the protection of the public, and certain classes of firearms - like semi-automatics - should be restricted to civilian and military users. Anyone who disagrees with me is a gun-nut.

MODERATE VIEW: Assumes that the right to self-protection is a legitimate right (whether under the Second Amendment or not), but that reasonable, rational limitations should be imposed, such as universal background checks, red flag laws, licensing/registration laws, carriage in public places should be limited - just like any other civil right.

SOLIDLY RIGHT VIEW: The Second Amendment is special, and the freedom to carry any kind of arms is a natural right. Any limitation is anathema. Anyone who disagrees with me is a gun-hater.

FAR RIGHT VIEW: Guns are our friends. Arm everybody! (unless I disapprove of them). Happiness is a warm gun. Guns, guns, guns and more guns! Let my Bazookas go!
 
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