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Police "Interference"... Crossing the street in a safe way.

A man is threatened with arrest for crossing the street with a flag that helps drivers to see that there is a pedestrian crossing the street because the cops are trying to do a sting operation to nail drivers with tickets for not yielding...

So...is the goal to make people safer, or revenue generation?


Personally, I don't think police departments should be funded by fines.

At all, ever, for any reason.

It quite literally gives them an incentive to find reasons to fine even when they don't exist.


Edit: And the same goes for seized property and selling it for funding.
 
Yeah…you’ve got nothing as well. Your breath just reeks of shoe polish.

Pathetic attempt at ad hominem because you can't stand disagreement.

I can see why you like 1st Amendment Frauditors.

Did you cry when Sidewalk Boy AKA Silence Boy got defunded in YouTube?

Waiting breathless for the next Glen Cerrio video?
 
Pathetic attempt at ad hominem because you can't stand disagreement.

I can see why you like 1st Amendment Frauditors.

Did you cry when Sidewalk Boy AKA Silence Boy got defunded in YouTube?

Waiting breathless for the next Glen Cerrio video?

Don‘t know who either of those people are so…nope.

And I’m fine with disagreement, but willful ignorance gets tiring. Buh-byeee!
 
The entire point of the police checkpoint was a fishing expedition designed to trap people in minor traffic infractions so they can fine them and generate income.

It's obvious and sad to see.
 
It ain't free speech when it is interfering.
And crossing the street in a crosswalk while waving a safety flag isn't an unlawful act and, therefore, isn't interference according to Utah law.
 
The goal of the operation is to catch people who may commit crimes. Until they do commit crimes or traffic infractions, his actions can’t even be considered interference by definition.



Er…the police and judges have to go by the law. Not what the would like the law to say.
He has to interpret the law. If the law is unclear, like what constitutes "interference," then he has to make a judgment call.
 
The flags were set out for pedestrians to use before the sting operation but really that’s irrelevant anyway...

I've never heard of this. This question almost certainly answers itself, but why were flags set out for pedestrians to cross the road?
 
He has to interpret the law. If the law is unclear, like what constitutes "interference," then he has to make a judgment call.

The law is pretty clear….
 
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I've never heard of this. This question almost certainly answers itself, but why were flags set out for pedestrians to cross the road?

We have these where I live. On each side of a busy intersection, there is a bucket that holds a bunch of small orange flags. You grab one and wave it so that cars can more easily see you and signal your intent to cross


And the cops, of course, were deliberately not using those flags that were provided, presumably, so the could write more tickets….
 
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We have these where I live. On each side of a busy intersection, there is a bucket that holds a bunch of small orange flags. You grab one and wave it so that cars can more easily see you and signal your intent to cross


And the cops, of course, were deliberately not using those flags that were provided, presumably, so the could write more tickets….
It sounds to me like the city is trying to respond to dangerous crosswalk conditions. Have there been a lot of injuries or fatalities in these places?
 
It sounds to me like the city is trying to respond to dangerous crosswalk conditions. Have there been a lot of injuries or fatalities in these places?

No idea. But it looks to me like the cops are after revenue generation and are giving out illegal threats and demands a citizen just crossing the street safely.
 
No idea. But it looks to me like the cops are after revenue generation and are giving out illegal threats and demands of citizens.
That may be, but it seems to me that this sting didn't come out of a vacuum. A crosswalk sting on its own seems like obvious revenue generation. Crosswalk stings and red flags for pedestrians look like responses to hazardous conditions.

And that's not a statement on whether these are even the best responses. In fact, I believe bad city planning is responsible, but it's a lot easier to hand out red flags to pedestrians and give out tickets than it is to spend millions rezoning a residential area.
 
That may be, but it seems to me that this sting didn't come out of a vacuum. A crosswalk sting on its own seems like obvious revenue generation. Crosswalk stings and red flags for pedestrians look like responses to hazardous conditions.

And that's not a statement on whether these are even the best responses. In fact, I believe bad city planning is responsible, but it's a lot easier to hand out red flags to pedestrians and give out tickets than it is to spend millions rezoning a residential area.

And I have no objection to them doing a crosswalk sting…they just can’t violate someone’s rights because it’s more fruitful of a sting operation to use “bait” that are crossing the road without a flag…
 
And I have no objection to them doing a crosswalk sting…they just can’t violate someone’s rights because it’s more fruitful of a sting operation to use “bait” that are crossing the road without a flag…
You can record and report the operation, bringing public attention to something the public might not approve of. Cache Valley Transparency clearly put himself inside their operation and interfered with it. Now if he wants to do that as a protest for the purpose of bringing maximal attention to the issue (and maybe he should) then that's fine. But you just have to accept that there's a pretty good chance of getting arrested for interference at that point. Which, again, is perfectly fine if bringing attention to the issue is the goal.

That said, I'd like an ATA video for this. It seems very interfere-y to me, but these things often exist in a gray area and I could be wrong.
 
You can record and report the operation, bringing public attention to something the public might not approve of. Cache Valley Transparency clearly put himself inside their operation and interfered with it.

Not according to the legal definition of interference.

Now if he wants to do that as a protest for the purpose of bringing maximal attention to the issue (and maybe he should) then that's fine. But you just have to accept that there's a pretty good chance of getting arrested for interference at that point. Which, again, is perfectly fine if bringing attention to the issue is the goal.

Shouldn’t be any chance of getting arrested because he wasn’t interfering and all that he was doing was crossing the street safely

That said, I'd like an ATA video for this. It seems very interfere-y to me, but these things often exist in a gray area and I could be wrong.

I posted Utah’s legal definition for interference earlier
 
Cache Valley Transparency clearly put himself inside their operation and interfered with it.
If you don't want random people in your "operation" then maybe your operation shouldn't be on a public sidewalk crossing a public street.

It seems very interfere-y to me, but these things often exist in a gray area and I could be wrong.
No one has yet explained how this fits with the definition of interference according to Utah statutes. It's not interference with a peace officer, as there is no interference with the arrest or detention of any person (there cannot be, as he's prevention the commission of a crime/violation that would give rise to a person being subject to arrest or detention). It's not interference with a public servant (there is no force, violence, or intimidation used) unless one can point to an unlawful act the citizen is committing. Even an "unlawful act" would be shaky grounds at best, since the citizen isn't interfering with the officers in the performance of their official functions -- they are just as free to conduct their sting and pull over anyone who breaks the law as they are if he weren't there.

The police are not entitled to have people break the law, and keeping people from doing so is not interfering with the official functions of a public servant.
 
If you don't want random people in your "operation" then maybe your operation shouldn't be on a public sidewalk crossing a public street.


No one has yet explained how this fits with the definition of interference according to Utah statutes. It's not interference with a peace officer, as there is no interference with the arrest or detention of any person (there cannot be, as he's prevention the commission of a crime/violation that would give rise to a person being subject to arrest or detention). It's not interference with a public servant (there is no force, violence, or intimidation used) unless one can point to an unlawful act the citizen is committing. Even an "unlawful act" would be shaky grounds at best, since the citizen isn't interfering with the officers in the performance of their official functions -- they are just as free to conduct their sting and pull over anyone who breaks the law as they are if he weren't there.

The police are not entitled to have people break the law, and keeping people from doing so is not interfering with the official functions of a public servant.

Perhaps they should have set up the crosswalk sting in the police lobby....

Hmmmm?


You run a crosswalk sting where the crosswalks are dangerous.
 
Interesting.... the video in the OP places it taking place in Logan, UT, not included in the 2019 Forbes or
2021 NY Times research of these "practices". I linked to both studies in my unexcerpted post.

Sessions under Trump reversed the Obama DOJ's efforts at reforms. The studies indicate the majority of the fines
devoted to funding "enforcement" are assessed against motorist in just four states. All four have higher than average
incarceration rates,

The G.O.P.'s oppression megaphone is adept at steering the cultists away from the stench that is right under their noses.
Now you see it,

Investigation of the Ferguson Police Department

https://www.justice.gov › attachments › 2015/03/04

PDF
Mar 4, 2015 — yet Ferguson's municipal court routinely issues warrants for people to be arrested and incarcerated for failing to timely pay related fines ...

And now, you don't!

Five Years After Ferguson, Policing Reform Is Abandoned

https://eji.org › news › five-years-after-ferguson-policin...
Aug 12, 2019 — Five Years After Ferguson, Policing Reform Is Abandoned. 08.12.19 ... then-Attorney General Jeff Sessions had eliminated the Collaborative Reform program.
-snip-
.
 
Perhaps they should have set up the crosswalk sting in the police lobby....

Hmmmm?


You run a crosswalk sting where the crosswalks are dangerous.


Letting people who have not committed any crime, that there are police ahead is not interfering with the police from stopping people who have committed any crimes. It is only preventing revenue generation. Letting people know there is police ahead is making the streets safer, just as the police sting will, just without revenue generation for the PD
 
Letting people who have not committed any crime, that there are police ahead is not interfering with the police from stopping people who have committed any crimes. It is only preventing revenue generation. Letting people know there is police ahead is making the streets safer, just as the police sting will, just without revenue generation for the PD

Interfering with a sting operation is interfering.
 
The idiot was interfering with a police operation, one which most people including me thinks was actually serving the public interests. There are few do overs when a thoughtless selfish driver runs over pedestrians---- usually children, in a crosswalk. So, fining people for some of the most unsafe types of driving makes sense.

This was not a sting operation going after cars with illegally tinted windows, no front license plates, or for going 5mph over the speed limit on a freeway. It is a police operation seeking to punish the most unsafe types of drivers, so why does the OP have a problem with that?

This notion that all things done by police are attacks on liberty is kind of stupid.
 
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