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Police beat war veterans in assault on Occupy Boston


No, that's completely incorrect. There's a law that states you cannot trample all over one specific area of land. Nobody was asked to stop assembling. Nobody was told they couldn't peacefully assemble. They were told, "Hey, this spot is off limits...please walk across the street (roads closed for your safety!) to the area that isn't restricted by previously existing laws." Something that the SCOTUS has said is perfectly acceptable. Much like a city can say that the public park closes at 10, so protests must vacate by 10 (but can return upon open the next morning!).
 

So people have the right to assemble peacably unless the scary moon is out?
 

why is this such a hard concept for some people to grasp?
 
Ya'll are arguing a losing battle with those who think the protesters did no wrong.

There are always fools who think they can be whereever they want to be -- say whatever they want to say -- and do whatever they want to do. All in the name of their right of assembly. I, for one, am glad for coppers who teach them the error of their ways. The police showed restraint...gave calm warnings...and were disregarded.

These young people (and apparently some older ones, two) need to grow up....or, failing that, to accept the consequences of their actions. This demonstration has the real possibility of turning ugly. Too bad...so sad.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
So people have the right to assemble peacably unless the scary moon is out?
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they have the right to assemble, as long as they don't break other pre-existing laws while doing so. it really isn't that difficult of a concept to understand.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
So people have the right to assemble peacably unless the scary moon is out?
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If you refuse to look at the links provide or information cited or debate honestly then there's really no reason to keep posting. You're creating strawmen that have nothing at all to do with reality. The sooner you accept that the sooner we can have a real conversation. Until then, enjoy talking to yourself.
 

the really sad thing is, if these had been abortion protestors, or a KKK rally or an anti-gay protest most of these same people would have no problem with what the cops did. they are just squealing "right to assemble" because they happen to agree with the POV of these particular protestors.
 
You know, I try to be an fairly even-handed guy, give people the benefit of the doubt and take them at their word. I can't believe the derision some conservatives are casting on these protesters: Scum, wastes of oxygen, filth, sleaze ...

You display precious little respect for your fellow Americans, and you act like children with your fingers in your ears. Do you think you're winning rational people to your cause?
 

Yeah, I mean if you don't do what the police say, when they tell you to do it; you deserve to get beaten. The more savage the beating the better. OBEY!
 

I think this is wrong and dishonest. I, for one, would argue for anyone's right to assemble and protest. From Westboro to Occupy Wallstreet.
 

That reminds me.


Also this:


So basically, violating existing laws in order to peacefully assemble is not protected by the existence of that right. And laws can be drafted in regards to peaceful assembly and protest so long as those laws do not remove the right altogether (and laws regarding locale are clearly within constitutional limitations).
 
conservativeguy said:
I'll tell what is sad. When people think it's cool to break the law, threaten underpaid police officers and then whine about the perps getting a bruise on their ass after being shoved to the ground for inciting a riot.
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the irony of reading the words of somebody on the right complain about "underpaid police officers" is sweet indeed.
 

I never got the "if this were us, it would be so much worse" argument. First, its a narrative wholly divorced from reality, as it isn't an anti-abortion rally, so your hypothesis is untestable. Then, you act outraged at this made-up transgression. It's a common rhetorical tactic, but it's so cheap.

When you revel in the hypocrisy of the worst of your opponents -- especially the ones your just conjured out of your own imagination, you just highlight your own hypocrisy. Conservatives who applaud the tea party and decry these people en mass are equally guilty as your hypocritical liberals.
 
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haymarket said:
the irony of reading the words of somebody on the right complain about "underpaid police officers" is sweet indeed.
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But your generalization and stereotyping of the right is completely expected.

Many of us on the right don't lament public servants receiving higher pay. We lament the wasteful spending on administrative pay and red-tape bull**** that eats up so much of the money allotted to these services. We challenge the idea that you have to cut civil servants when the budget is constricted instead of cutting pay 5% for administrative officials, or cutting back bonus for administative officials, or removing one or two days of vacation, or any other solution. Demanding cuts in budget =/= demanding cuts in pay for civil servants. Immediately running to the accusation is just a political game.
 

thank you for clarifying that. please not that I did NOT indict all persons on the right - just this particular somebody.
 

I personally display absolutely NO respect for ANYONE who cannot abide by the law, Joe. If these bums (that's about the nicest thing I can call them) actually had permits, I'd just think they were idiots. Their unwillingness to even go through the process makes them criminals in my mind, and I have no place in my heart, nor do I believe there is a place in society for criminals.

I'm not here to "win rational people to my cause". I never have been. The cause stands for itself, you either agree or you don't. Just realize that there are only two types of people in this world.... Allies and Enemies. If you aren't the first, you're automatically the second.
 

I think you're being prejudicial. Physical force is appropriate when things actually do turn ugly, not when you presume they will. It's the ones using physical force who must defend the necessity of it. You can't just assume a threat that may not exist.

I also would caution you not to be overly trusting of the police. Your naivete could cost you someday.
 

That's how we get "free speech" zones, which are horse****. America is a free speech zone.
 

GhostlyJoe, when coppers are trying to manage 7,000 people, they don't wait for it to turn ugly. They must keep control. Or they're dead. When demonstrators refuse to move and resist arrest, they're lucky if all that happens is they get pushed down.

As for trusting coppers, I don't trust 'em necessarily....but I do respect them and sure do obey their direction. I'll argue in the courtroom, not on the street.
 
Ikari said:
That's how we get "free speech" zones, which are horse****. America is a free speech zone.
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Your rights end when they limit the rights of others. You can speak freely, but if you're disrupting business by using speakers and megaphones that cancel out business conversations then you can and will be arrested. If you run around naked on a school play ground in protest of wearing animal products you can and will be arrested. If you access an area that is legally deemed off-limits in order to protest then you can and will be arrested. The idea that we're going to start screaming about rights being stripped away because the cops asked protesters to move 100 yards away and get off legally restricted land is ridiculous.
 

Permit to protest.... Do you know how wrong that sounds? Seems like it should be in a Monty Python skit.
 

I don't share your world view. I don't see us as allies and enemies, though the temptation is there at times.

As for the permits, I see no reason it shouldn't be at the discretion of the local community. It's appropriate for cities to facilitate peaceful protest as much as possible.
 

No, this is how we get "protest zones". We already have "free speech" zones which are bull****. As I said, America is a free speech zone. But now the authority gets to tell people when and where they can exercise their rights, and thus can push them off to the side. Which is EXACTLY what they do at things like the RNC and DNC conventions. Push the protesters blocks and blocks away so the press doesn't have to cover them, so the politicians don't have to see it. It's incredibly destructive to our rights and our ability to keep hold of the government such that we may preserve the Republic.

Big government is never good, it is always harmful to our rights. If there is no way to limit what the government can call "legally restricted land", then it IS a stripping of our rights.
 

Happens at football stadiums every Sunday with gatherings of tens of thousands. There's even drunken fistfights, arrests and uncouth behavior. But there's rarely an issue with overall control.

If these protesters were using physical force, they would be charged as such: assault, battery, etc. As I understand it, almost all the arrests have been for non-violent behavior. It's not fair to simply assume violence will take place. What indication is there that the police are in danger?

I obey the police as well. I teach my kids to obey and respect the police. I've never been arrested, but I've been close to people who have, and its given me a healthy distrust for the system. And when my kids get older and can understand society with greater complexity, I'll warn them about the potential for abuse by the justice system.
 
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