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1.)i will just restate this again.
2.)PP has admitted it knew of problems, but PP has to stated "ignorance" when it comes to what happened at the clinic.
3.)they cannot admit they knew of an illegal activity or it dooms the people and the organization as a whole.
how? do you know of problems at the clinic, and then say......we are ignorant on what went on there.
if they did, those saying it would go to jail.
Thank you for agreeing with me.
As I said, there is no evidence that anyone ever told PP of anything criminal
we (PP) knew of problems at the clinic, ......but we are ignorant on what went on there.
we (PP) knew of problems at the clinic, ......but we are ignorant on what went on there.
1. Well, we ought to wait and see how extraterrestrials regard us before giving them rights.
2. But the unborn are neurologically active, with brains, after a certain point which is actually very early on, still in the first trimester.
3. No, this isn't correct if you go by "neurologically active" and possessing a "mind" by which I presume you mean functioning brain.
4. Baby killing is the law of the land. Planned parenthood was originally all about keeping specific populations under control, by which it was meant undesireable populations like non-whites and the mentally ill and deformed. From that day to this Planned Parenthood has been focused mainly on these populations, and with great success.
5. It's not complicated. We just decided to let people kill babies who were inconvienent or unwanted. That's really all there is to it. All this stuff about neurologically active and so on is just so much lame-assed BS rationalization.
6. Don' you worry none. They ain't gonna change dat law no MATTER what. Yo can going on killing babies to yo heart's content, active neurological systems, functioning minds and all.
7. Besides which, there are, as you point out, certain utilitarian benefits from the practice. I'm especially fond of the way in which liberals are so much more likely to get abortions.
Abortion is still not killing people.
In your warped mind.
They were screaming when he 'snipped their spinal cord'.
Nice dodge. Maybe someday, you'll actually tell us what PP should have specifically complained about.
Or you could read up on the trial. The clinic conditions were filthy. There are pictures available of some of the equipment, and you can see for yourself.
There was a systemic failure--Gosnell had been reported, but the health dept. didn't follow up. He continued to ply his trade for 17 years: Pill-mill by day and abortion mill by night. It was a narcotics task force that brought him down.
If women were coming to PP clinics and complaining, what do you think they were complaining about? The receptionist being rude?
So are you claiming that the complaints that PP received were about unsanitary equipment? If so, do you have any evidence to support this?
Also, this thread isn't about the failure of the health dept. It is about the dishonest claim, made in the OP, that PP knew of criminal activity and didn't report it.
Or you could read up on the trial. The clinic conditions were filthy. There are pictures available of some of the equipment, and you can see for yourself.
There was a systemic failure--Gosnell had been reported, but the health dept. didn't follow up. He continued to ply his trade for 17 years: Pill-mill by day and abortion mill by night. It was a narcotics task force that brought him down.
If women were coming to PP clinics and complaining, what do you think they were complaining about? The receptionist being rude?
From the grand jury report (page 2):
The clinic reeked of animal urine, courtesy of the cats that were allowed to roam (and defecate) freely. Furniture and blankets were stained with blood. Instruments were not properly sterilized. Disposable medical supplies were not disposed of; they were reused, over and over again. Medical equipment – such as the defibrillator, the EKG, the pulse oximeter, the blood pressure cuff – was generally broken; even when it worked, it wasn’t used. The emergency exit was padlocked shut.
http://www.phila.gov/districtattorney/pdfs/grandjurywomensmedical.pdf
The OP isn't dishonest. It does not mention the phrase "criminal activity"; it refers to "problems." This is because Dayle Steinberg said that PP was aware that there were problems.
And BTW, you asked if there was any "confirmation" that what the links in the OP claimed was what Steinberg actually said. I guess you couldn't be bothered to check for yourself, but that's okay because I did:
"Steinberg said that when Gosnell was in practice, women would sometimes come to Planned Parenthood for services after first visiting Gosnell's West Philadelphia clinic, and would complain to staff about the conditions there.
"We would always encourage them to report it to the Department of Health," Steinberg said as she sat with Steinem before Tuesday's events.
Steinem stresses reproductive rights at Planned Parenthood gathering - Philly.com
Further, has Steinberg denied what she has been quoted as saying. Uh, no.
No need; it doesn't matter what she said to those whose ears are closed because their minds are made up.
So are you claiming that the complaints that PP received were about unsanitary equipment? If so, do you have any evidence to support this?
The OP isn't dishonest. It does not mention the phrase "criminal activity"; it refers to "problems." This is because Dayle Steinberg said that PP was aware that there were problems.
And BTW, you asked if there was any "confirmation" that what the links in the OP claimed was what Steinberg actually said. I guess you couldn't be bothered to check for yourself, but that's okay because I did:
"Steinberg said that when Gosnell was in practice, women would sometimes come to Planned Parenthood for services after first visiting Gosnell's West Philadelphia clinic, and would complain to staff about the conditions there.
"We would always encourage them to report it to the Department of Health," Steinberg said as she sat with Steinem before Tuesday's events.
Steinem stresses reproductive rights at Planned Parenthood gathering - Philly.com
Further, has Steinberg denied what she has been quoted as saying. Uh, no.
No need; it doesn't matter what she said to those whose ears are closed because their minds are made up.
Please read the title of the thread. Are you suggesting that the "horrors" it refers to have nothing to do with the murder of born babies and refer only to the unsanitary conditions there?
I never denied that Steinberg acknowledged that women had complained to PP about the conditions at Gosnell's clinic. Don't know where you came up with that one.
But I did notice that you dodged my questions. I'll repeat
Don't bother. I'm not up for spinning and twisting this evening.
Don't bother. I'm not up for spinning and twisting this evening.
typical, proved wrong and you run away.
Ill ask too, is the thread title/ article title factual or is it misleading?
are the horrors it is referring to only complaints?
I don't believe that the thread title is misleading at all...If PP said that the complaints, the very same that nota outlined to you, and you said were horrendous, and common sense would dictate, are a health code violation, then PP, being another HC facility, has an obligation to report it.....
I don't believe that the thread title is misleading at all...If PP said that the complaints, the very same that nota outlined to you, and you said were horrendous, and common sense would dictate, are a health code violation, then PP, being another HC facility, has an obligation to report it.....
PP did not that the complaints were about the unsanitary conditions, did they?
I don't think that the PP guy said, but in the outline that nota gave, I think it's testimony of one of the women that complained, or something like that...In any case any one of those would have been a health hazard, and if they were conveyed to anyone at PP, then they had an obligation to report them.
We have learned during our investigation that Gosnell’s reckless ways were not unknown to people in the community. Some pro-choice and women’s health groups learned from Gosnell’s patients of their frightening experiences. Patients reported that they were put totally to sleep for long periods of time, that they were treated badly, and that the facility was dirty. The community groups tried to help women file complaints. They were unsuccessful, however, in part because the complaint form used by the Department of State – the same form that one would use to complain about a barber or a car salesman – is difficult to fill out, especially if the complainant is not well educated or does not speak English. It demands considerable personal information, and it does not guarantee confidentiality for medical records.
Women who had undergone abortions were generally not willing to send all of this information to Harrisburg. When representatives of one of the organizations tried to file a complaint with the Board of Medicine on behalf of the women, they were allegedly told that they could not file a third-party complaint.
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