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Plan to get more STEM students, get rid of math

Makes sense to me. I had no problem with calculus, but I know so many others who do. Alot of STEM subjects don't really require calculus in the end product. It appears the approach the article presents is to have certain math classes geared more towards what each actual major needs rather than just the regular calculus class.

I'll give an anecdotal. My son did not get my math brain. He took calculus three times and had to drop out each time because he simply could not do well in it while excelling in all of his other courses. However, most Computer Science degrees require Calculus. Instead, what would make sense is a a course or two of a type of math more geared to what a CS student actually needs, rather than the general calculus course.

Because he simply could not pass calculus, my son dropped out and is pursuing a different route to a CS career: certificates. He is doing much better in that.
 
Makes sense to me. I had no problem with calculus, but I know so many others who do. Alot of STEM subjects don't really require calculus in the end product. It appears the approach the article presents is to have certain math classes geared more towards what each actual major needs rather than just the regular calculus class.

I'll give an anecdotal. My son did not get my math brain. He took calculus three times and had to drop out each time because he simply could not do well in it while excelling in all of his other courses. However, most Computer Science degrees require Calculus. Instead, what would make sense is a a course or two of a type of math more geared to what a CS student actually needs, rather than the general calculus course.

Because he simply could not pass calculus, my son dropped out and is pursuing a different route to a CS career: certificates. He is doing much better in that.

The calculus class isn't just about knowing the formulas and applications of calculus, it shows if a student has the critical thinking skills to excel in all the paths of STEM.
 
The calculus class isn't just about knowing the formulas and applications of calculus, it shows if a student has the critical thinking skills to excel in all the paths of STEM.
Horse hockey. You're doing exactly what the article is saying: using one math course to "weed out" students from a STEM path. Obviously, it should just be the STE components focused on here, but math courses that are designed specifically for each degree path makes much more sense that just having people take calculus.

My undergrad is in chemistry. I needed alot of calculus in Physical Chemistry, but not a single other chemistry course. I'd dare say alot of other STE degrees require even less calculus.
 
The calculus class isn't just about knowing the formulas and applications of calculus, it shows if a student has the critical thinking skills to excel in all the paths of STEM.

Discrete mathematics is much more relevant to computer science than calculus.
 
Horse hockey. You're doing exactly what the article is saying: using one math course to "weed out" students from a STEM path. Obviously, it should just be the STE components focused on here, but math courses that are designed specifically for each degree path makes much more sense that just having people take calculus.

My undergrad is in chemistry. I needed alot of calculus in Physical Chemistry, but not a single other chemistry course. I'd dare say alot of other STE degrees require even less calculus.

In my experience, the "weed out" course become a badge of honor for those that have STEM degrees and this limits a critical view into why there should be "weed out" courses. I felt the same way until I was actually working in my field. Some of the best "computer scientists" I worked with have degrees in music, etc. Much like most STEM fields, there is a huge difference between what someone doing research does (a small percentage of those in the field) and those that actually apply the field. There are thousands and thousands of programmers, system architects, etc. in the tech world who either have degrees other than computer science or in a lot of cases, no degree at all.
 
Makes sense to me. I had no problem with calculus, but I know so many others who do. Alot of STEM subjects don't really require calculus in the end product. It appears the approach the article presents is to have certain math classes geared more towards what each actual major needs rather than just the regular calculus class.

I'll give an anecdotal. My son did not get my math brain. He took calculus three times and had to drop out each time because he simply could not do well in it while excelling in all of his other courses. However, most Computer Science degrees require Calculus. Instead, what would make sense is a a course or two of a type of math more geared to what a CS student actually needs, rather than the general calculus course.

Because he simply could not pass calculus, my son dropped out and is pursuing a different route to a CS career: certificates. He is doing much better in that.
My understanding is that no one except pure math researchers actually do long form calc or even trig or algebra anyway. It's usually a matter of setting up the problem for a machine.
 
I wonder what would happen if they had the physics and engineering instructors teach the math. It is like the math teaches are off in some never-never land sometimes.
 
If you don't understand calculus, you're not STEM.

It's just that simple.
 
Makes sense to me. I had no problem with calculus, but I know so many others who do. Alot of STEM subjects don't really require calculus in the end product. It appears the approach the article presents is to have certain math classes geared more towards what each actual major needs rather than just the regular calculus class.

I'll give an anecdotal. My son did not get my math brain. He took calculus three times and had to drop out each time because he simply could not do well in it while excelling in all of his other courses. However, most Computer Science degrees require Calculus. Instead, what would make sense is a a course or two of a type of math more geared to what a CS student actually needs, rather than the general calculus course.

Because he simply could not pass calculus, my son dropped out and is pursuing a different route to a CS career: certificates. He is doing much better in that.

There may be a point here. From my experience a long time ago, there's a big focus on calculus as the "honors" conclusion of math education in high school, and as a default in college, but much less emphasis on statistics, which is often way more important to understand for certain scientific disciplines (not to mention for just understanding life in general).
 
The plan to create more STEM graduates is to get rid of the math that people can't understand. You can't make this stuff up.

The one approach noted in the article was to create a course Mathematics for Life Scientists. Seems practical to me. Here's a question, how many STEM professions are there & how many actually require high level math skills?
 
Horse hockey. You're doing exactly what the article is saying: using one math course to "weed out" students from a STEM path. Obviously, it should just be the STE components focused on here, but math courses that are designed specifically for each degree path makes much more sense that just having people take calculus.

My undergrad is in chemistry. I needed alot of calculus in Physical Chemistry, but not a single other chemistry course. I'd dare say alot of other STE degrees require even less calculus.
Completely agree with you. Three of our top tech companies were created by college dropouts.
 
In my experience, the "weed out" course become a badge of honor for those that have STEM degrees and this limits a critical view into why there should be "weed out" courses. I felt the same way until I was actually working in my field. Some of the best "computer scientists" I worked with have degrees in music, etc. Much like most STEM fields, there is a huge difference between what someone doing research does (a small percentage of those in the field) and those that actually apply the field. There are thousands and thousands of programmers, system architects, etc. in the tech world who either have degrees other than computer science or in a lot of cases, no degree at all.
Well Michael Dell, Steve Jobs, and Bill Gates all dropped out of college and did okay for themselves.
 
The one approach noted in the article was to create a course Mathematics for Life Scientists. Seems practical to me. Here's a question, how many STEM professions are there & how many actually require high level math skills?

Most of them, they might not require the formulas but they require the type of thinking skills required to slove them
 
Most of them, they might not require the formulas but they require the type of thinking skills required to slove them
Can you state that as a fact? I worked in a STEM profession and most of the math (and coursework for that matter) was virtually useless. Now maybe others have different views but I would think there's plenty others who would share my sentiment.
 
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