• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Phone Companies: Should they get immunity from wiretpping suits?

Travelsonic

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 14, 2006
Messages
1,390
Reaction score
328
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Centrist
A local news station I once intrned at briefly always has these great (IMO) poll questions, I thought once I'd use the most recent and ask you the same question.

When it comes down to lawsuits regarding the phone company's role in the domestic wiretapping controversy, should they be granted imunity?

EDIT: damn, no poll. Plese help me fix this. :doh
 
Absolutely.
 
Absolutely.

Not calling you out on your post, but please elaborate on our position if possible.

This goes for EVERYBODY posting in this, not just you. :)
 
Not calling you out on your post, but please elaborate on our position if possible.

This goes for EVERYBODY posting in this, not just you. :)

It was done at the request of the government with it's assurance it was legal.

Of course the first problem will be finding someone who can prove their rights were violated.
 
It was done at the request of the government with it's assurance it was legal.

Of course the first problem will be finding someone who can prove their rights were violated.

If it was legal, then why do they need immunity?
 
Because the Democrats want to make it otherwise.

Study ex post facto. If they changed the law, deeds before the law passed can't be prosecuted.
 
Absolutely not, why give the phone companies immunity for violations against the constitution. The phoned companies have mounted a secretive lobbying campaign to get Congress to quickly approve a measure wiping out all private lawsuits against them for assisting the U.S. intelligence community’s warrantless surveillance programs. That is only the tip of the iceberg; they want it to be retroactive and not only to 9-11 but to go back at least to as early as February 27, 2001, seven months before 9-11. That was what Joe Nacchioo, former CEO of Qwest, claims is the reason the National Security Agency is going after him and Qwest is because the Denver Telco refused to go along with a phone spying program. \

Rocky Mountain News - Denver and Colorado's reliable source for breaking news, sports and entertainment: Tech & telecom
 
We must have proper oversight to protect our civil liberties.

The new House bill would not hold phone companies liable for past indiscretions, only for pending abuses of FISA.

It's hard to know what's going on since Bush refuses to hand over requested documents detailing his domestic spying program.

Bush only wants secrecy for his own administration, not the American people.

Thank god you neo-cons are a dying breed.
 
We must have proper oversight to protect our civil liberties.

The new House bill would not hold phone companies liable for past indiscretions, only for pending abuses of FISA.

It's hard to know what's going on since Bush refuses to hand over requested documents detailing his domestic spying program.

Bush only wants secrecy for his own administration, not the American people.

Thank god you neo-cons are a dying breed.

I think it is helpful to remind you and all of the silly liberals here that Neo-Cons are those who abandoned libaralism to become Conservative.

So who you are glad to see are a "dying breed" are your own brethren who are smarter than you and came over to the RIGHT side.

Jealousy?

Or are liberals trying to do an imitation of Islam and the way they look at people who leave the religion (apostates)?
 
The "just following orders" defense.
What a history that defense has.

So you're equating them with Nazi's.................pitiful.


And, of course, as has been pointed out- w/o a transgression, immunity's moot.

Not to shyster lawyers.

I bet our enemies are laughing their arses off knowing that the left and the Dems are on their side.
 
I think it is helpful to remind you and all of the silly liberals here that Neo-Cons are those who abandoned libaralism to become Conservative.

So who you are glad to see are a "dying breed" are your own brethren who are smarter than you and came over to the RIGHT side.

Jealousy?

Or are liberals trying to do an imitation of Islam and the way they look at people who leave the religion (apostates)?


According to this report things haven’t changed much.

Summary of Findings: Pragmatic Americans Liberal and Conservative on Social Issues

< Indeed, public opinion has moved little on these issues in recent years and continues to be mixed and often inconsistent, reflecting a blend of pragmatism and principle. For instance, a clear majority (56%) continues to oppose allowing gays and lesbians to marry while 35% express support. But nearly as large a majority (54%) supports allowing homosexual couples to enter into legal agreements that would give them many of the same rights as married couples.>
 
So you're equating them with Nazi's.................pitiful.
Nice try.

Have the phone companies made such a case? Or tried such a defense?

Then how could I be comparing them to Nazis?



Further, just because the Nazis made the defense famous, doesn't mean that it was limited to Nazis. If you will examine the link I provided you'll see that many folks have tried to use that defense.
 
I think it is helpful to remind you and all of the silly liberals here that Neo-Cons are those who abandoned libaralism to become Conservative.
They switched from Liberalism to "Big Government Conservatism".
Cause Liberalism is like having six; however, the neocons decided they'd rather have a half a dozen - so they switched to Big Government Conservatism.

IMHO, the neocons are liberal entryists.


"Big Government Conservative" - Google Search
If you'll notice the very first link is from the Weekly Standard expounding on the virtues of GWB's "big government conservatism" - Big-Government Conservatism

The founders of neo-conservatism were communists and socialists. At least one Trostkyite among them, iirc.

I'll provide some words from the horses' ... mouths (what else?):



From the Godfather of NeoConservatism:

The Neoconservative Persuasion
From the August 25, 2003 issue: What it was, and what it is.
by Irving Kristol

...the historical task and political purpose of neoconservatism would seem to be this: to convert the Republican party, and American conservatism in general, against their respective wills, into a new kind of conservative politics suitable to governing a modern democracy.

...an attitude toward public finance that is far less risk averse than is the case among more traditional conservatives.

Neocons do not feel that kind of alarm or anxiety about the growth of the state... seeing it as natural, indeed inevitable. Because they tend to be more interested in history than economics or sociology, they know that the 19th-century idea, so neatly propounded by Herbert Spencer in his "The Man Versus the State," was a historical eccentricity. People have always preferred strong government to weak government, although they certainly have no liking for anything that smacks of overly intrusive government. Neocons feel at home in today's America to a degree that more traditional conservatives do not.

The upshot is a quite unexpected alliance between neocons, who include a fair proportion of secular intellectuals, and religious traditionalists.
Because religious conservatism is so feeble in Europe, the neoconservative potential there is correspondingly weak.

And large nations, whose identity is ideological, like the Soviet Union of yesteryear and the United States of today, inevitably have ideological interests in addition to more material concerns. Barring extraordinary events, the United States will always feel obliged to defend, if possible, a democratic nation under attack from nondemocratic forces, external or internal.
No complicated geopolitical calculations of national interest are necessary.

Irving Kristol is author of "Neoconservatism: The Autobiography of an Idea."
And from William Kristol
"If we have to make common cause with the more hawkish liberals and fight the conservatives, that is fine with me... If you read the last few issues of the Weekly Standard, it has much more in common with liberal hawks than traditional conservatives."
From Benador Associates:What the Heck Is a Neocon?
by Max Boot
Wall Street Journal
The original neocons were a band of liberal intellectuals who rebelled against the Democratic Party's leftward drift on defense issues in the 1970s. At first the neocons clustered around Sen. Henry "Scoop" Jackson, a Democrat, but then they aligned themselves with Ronald Reagan and the Republicans, who promised to confront Soviet expansionism.

So is "neoconservatism" worthless as a political label? Not entirely. In social policy, it stands for a broad sympathy with a traditionalist agenda and a rejection of extreme libertarianism.

On economic matters, neocons...embrace a laissez-faire line, though they are not as troubled by the size of the welfare state as libertarians are.

But it is not really domestic policy that defines neoconservatism. This was a movement founded on foreign policy, and it is still here that neoconservatism carries the greatest meaning...

One group of conservatives believes that we should use armed force only to defend our vital national interests, narrowly defined. They believe that we should remove, or at least disarm, Saddam Hussein, but not occupy Iraq for any substantial period afterward. The idea of bringing democracy to the Middle East they denounce as a mad, hubristic dream likely to backfire with tragic consequences. This view, which goes under the somewhat self-congratulatory moniker of "realism," is championed by foreign-policy mandarins like Henry Kissinger, Brent Scowcroft and James Baker III.

[Neocons] ...think, however, that "realism" presents far too crabbed a view of American power and responsibility.​
 
Last edited:
Nice try.

Have the phone companies made such a case? Or tried such a defense?

Then how could I be comparing them to Nazis?

Don't insult my intelligence.
 
Lord knows companies that engaged on behalf of the government in illegal wiretapping shouldn't be held liable. Has anybody ever heard of accomplice?
 
Lord knows companies that engaged on behalf of the government in illegal wiretapping shouldn't be held liable. Has anybody ever heard of accomplice?

That's JUST what the enemy wants. When they are attacking they hope we will hesitate to act in our own best interest. They hope we will hesitate. They hope we will consult our attorneys first.

That will be all the time they need.
 
That's JUST what the enemy wants.

I agree. The enemy wants us to break our own laws and violate the liberties of our own citizens.

When they are attacking they hope we will hesitate to act in our own best interest. They hope we will hesitate. They hope we will consult our attorneys first.

What a crock of ****. Being at war doesn't mean the government gets a free pass to break laws. Grow the fvck up and get some balls while you're at it. You're so fvcking scared of being over run by extremists in a 24 like fashion that you're willing to give the government a free pass to ignore the laws we've set for ourselves. Would you let a cop break the law to catch a criminal? I doubt it.

That will be all the time they need.

Oogie Boogie. Any neo-con links? None? Alright thanks. Unlike you I don't live my life in fear. Whenever you crawl out of that rock you're living under with a bunch of pro-Bush posters hanging from the wall, I welcome you to come into the real world and experience society. 'Til then. Save the 24 scripts.
 
Yep, what would our enemies do if we stayed around to fight them.

Let me know when you're gonna start...instead of using this as an excuse to make corporate blood money, and ruin our military?
 
I think it is helpful to remind you and all of the silly liberals here that Neo-Cons are those who abandoned libaralism to become Conservative.

So who you are glad to see are a "dying breed" are your own brethren who are smarter than you and came over to the RIGHT side.

Jealousy?

Or are liberals trying to do an imitation of Islam and the way they look at people who leave the religion (apostates)?

"Lions, and tigers, and bears, oh my!"

"Global, Islamic, Jihad, oh my!"

By the way, today's neo-cons have never been conservative, or liberal.

Fascist is closer to the mark.

Simon...just curious...would you call someone who was often referred to as a "Reagan Democrat," a neo-con?
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom