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Perjury Chart: Trump Associates' Lies, False or Misleading Statements on Russia to the Feds

Risky Thicket

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This is an additional excellent resource:

It is a federal offense to intentionally make false statements to Congress, the FBI, and other federal authorities. It is also a crime to encourage others to do so (that is, in technical terms, to “suborn perjury”). It is also a crime to engage in a conspiracy to lie to federal authorities. A conspiracy can involve a tacit or explicit agreement to commit the criminal activity.
Here is a summary of the [FONT=&quot]18-page Chart which is below (as a PDF document). It will be updated as new information becomes public. major updates will be announced on Twitter and Facebook.


If there is no wrong doing and nothing to hide why are so many people attempting to obfuscate, deny and lie? Why has the GOP attempted again and again to stall, cover-up and misdirect the special counsel investigation ? [/FONT]


Link
 

Rexedgar

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I can only hope there is more to the forthcoming charges than ‘perjury!’

Lies began around the time of the down escalator ride.......
 

Amelia

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I can only hope there is more to the forthcoming charges than ‘perjury!’

Lies began around the time of the down escalator ride.......


Are you kidding? They started long before that.
 

Mach

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Regarding why they have conspired to lie to the public and in many cases to lie under oath and risk jail time and a felony record, has not been explained yet.
I sure am looking forward to the explanation.
 

azgreg

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This is an additional excellent resource:



If there is no wrong doing and nothing to hide why are so many people attempting to obfuscate, deny and lie? Why has the GOP attempted again and again to stall, cover-up and misdirect the special counsel investigation ?


Link

That's a lot of witches.
 

Felis Leo

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This is an additional excellent resource:



If there is no wrong doing and nothing to hide why are so many people attempting to obfuscate, deny and lie? Why has the GOP attempted again and again to stall, cover-up and misdirect the special counsel investigation ?


Link

Because obstruction of justice* (i.e., lying to the authorities) is one of the most easy crimes to commit and be proved against you in a Court of Law. And here is the kicker: It is easy to simply accidentally do. The prisons are filled with people who were innocent of any underlying offenses, but because they simply made factually incorrect statements (intentionally or unintentionally) to the Police or Federal investigators, they were charged and convicted of obstruction of justice and were given time in prison. Which is why if you are ever questioned by authorities at the Local, State or Federal level for any reason whatsoever, you must immediately assert your right to silence, ask for an attorney, shut the Hell up until your attorney arrives, and ask that any questions the relevant authorities have be submitted in writing to your counsel.

I will let attorney James Duane explain:


*I should clarify that there are three main crimes involving lying: Perjury, Making False Statements, and Obstruction of Justice. Slate has a quick guide here.
 
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Mycroft

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If there is no wrong doing and nothing to hide why are so many people attempting to obfuscate, deny and lie? Why has the GOP attempted again and again to stall, cover-up and misdirect the special counsel investigation ?


Link

Six out of the first ten are "probably" or "possibly" lied.

LIST REJECTED!!
 

Mach

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Six out of the first ten are "probably" or "possibly" lied.
LIST REJECTED!!
Wrong again Mycroft.

The subject: lies, false, OR misleading statement.
Risky even notes it again here: so many people attempting to OBFUSCATE, deny, and lie
they are all misleading statements, they are all obfuscation.

Keep trying Mycroft, accidentally you're sure to get some of your zealous pro-Trump defenses correct one day. No evidence to support it, but hey, I'm an optimist.
 

Conaeolos

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If there is no wrong doing and nothing to hide why are so many people attempting to obfuscate, deny and lie? Why has the GOP attempted again and again to stall, cover-up and misdirect the special counsel investigation ?


Link
Realizing you actually believe your overall claims, I must ask: with any of these do you not at all see any semantic / out of context / reasonable assumption defence in any of the cases?

All these to you are strait cases of lying/misleading[with the intent to deceive]….in the same ball park of "I did not have sexual relations with that women?".
 

Mycroft

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Wrong again Mycroft.

The subject: lies, false, OR misleading statement.
Risky even notes it again here: so many people attempting to OBFUSCATE, deny, and lie
they are all misleading statements, they are all obfuscation.

Keep trying Mycroft, accidentally you're sure to get some of your zealous pro-Trump defenses correct one day. No evidence to support it, but hey, I'm an optimist.

"probably" or "possibly" is nothing but speculation.

My rejection stands.
 

Felis Leo

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Regarding why they have conspired to lie to the public and in many cases to lie under oath and risk jail time and a felony record, has not been explained yet.
I sure am looking forward to the explanation.

Well, we must ask, Mach: First, was there a conspiracy to engage in false or misleading statements? That is, was there demonstrably an agreement between two or more parties to "get their stories straight" and purposefully lie to or mislead investigatory authorities? Second, even if there was, does that alone prove the underlying offense, i.e., coordinating with a hostile foreign government in order to sway the 2016 Presidential election in a particular direction?
 
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Mach

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"probably" or "possibly" is nothing but speculation.
My rejection stands.
Your claim is absurd, you can stand on it or do a jig, or pull your pants down while blowing a raspberry, it won't change a thing.

probably/possibly lies.
certainly misleading/obfuscation.

It meets the headline and OP's own parameters which includes obfuscation/misleading statements.
Neither the link, nor Risky, claim it's only a list of lies.
 

GDViking

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"probably" or "possibly" is nothing but speculation.

My rejection stands.

I'm sure you will be called as a expert witness in the eighteen trials that will be upcoming.

I'm sure the jury will find them not guilty as you have rejected their accusers...


:lamo:lamo:lamo
 

Mach

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Well, we must ask, Mach: First, was there a conspiracy to engage in false or misleading statements? Was there agreement between two or more parties to "get their stories straight" and purposefully lie to or mislead investigatory authorities?
It appears that way, but you're right, it likely would never be charged as such, even if there is some evidence to support it.

KT and Flynn appear to have coordinated, they worked together and those, And both lied that's not a coincidence.
Cohen's lie was reported by a number of members of Congress to have matched up with a number of others questioned around that time...more coincidence? (democrats in the House will have to answer that and refer it if necessary)
Corsi and Stone look to be in lock step
and we've seen them conspire to control the message in public, not under oath, like with the Trump Tower cover up.

They will likely never charge conspiracy to lie even if it seems pretty obvious they did, because they will likely never be able to get direct evidence of that, and it's secondary to the need for them to punish for perjury, and the end goal of really getting people to cooperate and tell the truth. Two people under federal investigation, if they are dumb enough to coordinate together via email or a recorded line or in front of witnesses...well, it could happen, but your right if you imply it seems unlikely they could evidence that.

Second, even if there was, does that alone prove the underlying offense, i.e., coordinating with a hostile foreign government in order to sway the 2016 Presidential election in a particular direction?
Would perjury prove coordination with Russia? Certainly not.

But I'm not familiar with this "underlying offense". Here is the paraphrased order for the Special Counsel:

- any links and/or coordination between Russia and Trump campaign
- any matters that arose or may arise from the investigation
- any other matters within the DOJ scope
- he can also request additional leeway
- there are also rumored to be some other, classified provision(s) that are not public (just including for completeness)

They are being criminal investigated for all these matters. Not one, or any hierarchy of "underlying".

Perjury arising from the investigation, it's what Mueller was charged with prosecuting just as much as anything else. Perjury can sometimes be evidence for an obstruction charge. I think that was on the table for Flynn, but in the end he plead guilty to one count.
Did you read his plea and Cohen's plea and Papadopolus? These guys didn't just "tell a lie, oops". I think in every case it was multiple lies, told multiple ways, in some cases to multiple people, and most plead this down. When you read those indictment/pleas, honestly, what was your impression. This is all just some big misunderstanding, or that something is going on? Even skimming it, should give you a feel for what's going on.

Why so many people hiding/obfuscating all about Russia Felis? Why even cross the line and commit felonies in doing so for Flynn, Papadopolus, and Cohen? I think you know the plausible reasons:
- they are covering up for someone higher up
- they are all just scared and accidentally lied many times in many ways all about Russia stuff

What other reasons are there?

And yes, lower level folks lying to investigators all about the same lines of inquiry, looks like they are indeed trying to cover up some crime that they feel they would implicate someone, if not themselves for, by telling the truth. I don't think anyone seriously questions that.
 

Risky Thicket

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Realizing you actually believe your overall claims, I must ask: with any of these do you not at all see any semantic / out of context / reasonable assumption defence in any of the cases?

All these to you are strait cases of lying/misleading[with the intent to deceive]….in the same ball park of "I did not have sexual relations with that women?".

What are "overall claims"?
 

Thoreau72

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This is an additional excellent resource:



If there is no wrong doing and nothing to hide why are so many people attempting to obfuscate, deny and lie? Why has the GOP attempted again and again to stall, cover-up and misdirect the special counsel investigation ?


Link

Open law-breaking and perjury is the style of governance that currently rules in Washington DC. Obama covers Bush's crimes and commits his own. Brennan and others openly perjure themselves and nothing at all happens except maybe more awards for the "public servants".

It's why so few people respect the government anymore. This is a country and government of special interests, not the rule of law.
 

Mr Person

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If there is no wrong doing and nothing to hide why are so many people attempting to obfuscate, deny and lie? Why has the GOP attempted again and again to stall, cover-up and misdirect the special counsel investigation ?


Link

If there's a "Witch Hunt" on, it's generally a bad idea to admit to being a warlock....
 
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