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Perhaps the most important Trump analysis yet.

Yep, no problem at all, someone with real life private sector experience and actually having to meet a payroll. It is about time to have someone outside of DC in the WH, someone beholding to no one. On the other hand with Hillary in the WH think she might save the country for moving expenses by returning all the items she and Bill took when they left?

You, my friend, are a voter where perception is reality and has nothing to do with qualifications or actual positive results.

None of this is even remotely relevant to governing. You want us to vote for a reality tv star who before that was an authoritarian liberal. No thanks, I don't want to become part of the American Idol contingent you are a member of. Oh, and Trump is a gross individual who believes +80% of whites are killed by blacks. It's a good enough reason to vote for anybody else.


Sent from a flower watered by the tears of Trump supporters and crazy newb liberals.
 
You were given logical, common sense reasons for not voting for a third party but you ignored them just like you ignored the question as to who you will be voting for that meets your criteria? You are a liberal marketing dream

Cpwill isn't hollow and wont vote for a life long liberal turned reality tv star turned authoritarian nativist. You seem bothered by this.


Sent from a flower watered by the tears of Trump supporters and crazy newb liberals.
 
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None of this is even remotely relevant to governing. You want us to vote for a reality tv star who before that was an authoritarian liberal. No thanks, I don't want to become part of the American Idol contingent you are a member of. Oh, and Trump is a gross individual who believes +80% of whites are killed by blacks. It's a good enough reason to vote for anybody else.


Sent from a flower watered by the tears of Trump supporters and crazy newb liberals.

As you have shown you have no idea what governing means if you support Hillary or Obama neither of whom have any leadership or management skills. You cannot say that about Trump and know only what the left tells you. Trump wasn't my choice but he beats the alternative all to hell and the fact that you can give no reason other than calling Trump names for voting for Hillary says it all. you are a left leader's marketing dream as you buy the rhetoric and ignore the results
 
Cpwill isn't hollow and wont vote for a life long liberal turned reality tv star turned authoritarian nativist. You seem bothered by this.


Sent from a flower watered by the tears of Trump supporters and crazy newb liberals.

Bothered? Not at all. Logic and common sense however are being ignored as you focus on not the real estate mogul but rather a reality TV star ignoring the private sector experience as well as leadership skills.
 
Bothered? Not at all. Logic and common sense however are being ignored as you focus on not the real estate mogul but rather a reality TV star ignoring the private sector experience as well as leadership skills.

There is no logic in whining about the American Idol generation and then voting for a reality tv star. Cpwill acknowledges this. You don't. Trump is a life long liberal, turned reality tv star, turned authoritarian nativist. These aren't just words, they are a description of the man's transition. It's not surprising people on the right won't vote for him.


Sent from a flower watered by the tears of Trump supporters and crazy newb liberals.
 
As you have shown you have no idea what governing means if you support Hillary or Obama neither of whom have any leadership or management skills. You cannot say that about Trump and know only what the left tells you. Trump wasn't my choice but he beats the alternative all to hell and the fact that you can give no reason other than calling Trump names for voting for Hillary says it all. you are a left leader's marketing dream as you buy the rhetoric and ignore the results

Lol, Trump's experience is from an authoritarian perspective. He says it, he is the boss, everyone else does what he says. He also believes +80% of whites are killed by blacks. He is a pretty disgusting individual. Completely un presidential and representative of the Twitter generation. Speaks first and asks questions later. You seem bothered by this.


Sent from a flower watered by the tears of Trump supporters and crazy newb liberals.
 
That makes so much sense, heck, you could be a Democrat with that style of reasoning. Are you for sure you aren't?

:2funny:

no. Unlike the current GOP nominee, I'm not a Democrat.


Who is the conservative you are going to vote for?

I'm not sure yet, to be honest. There's not really any good Conservative choices out there. After the GOP went Big Gov Liberal on me I decided to back Austin Petersen, who (because I backed him- I am a kind of kiss of death for political aspirations) promptly lost the nomination to Gary Johnson. I might be willing to hold my nose and vote for Johnson, but I also intend to look into Chris Kenniston of the Veterans Party.

Do they have a chance of winning?

Sure they do. Just not a good one.

However, again, "Who is the most likely to win" isn't how I pick who I vote for. If that's how you pick who to vote for, then you should vote for Hillary, as she currently has a fairly solid edge.

So, you dont vote for big gov liberals. Vote for GHWBush? Dole? GW? McCain? Romney?

Every one of those men is Calvin Coolidge next to Donald Trump. I can bend pretty far. But I won't bend that far. I came back to vote for Romney only because he picked Ryan to be his running mate, indicating that he was serious about pursuing Entitlement Reform. Romney was also minimally competent. Trump is neither.

You have not seen Trump in government yet, so that is just wild speculation on your part about Trump being a big gov authoritarian.

No it isn't. It's how he's campaigned. He has run on being a big government authoritarian. He has decades long history of being a big government authoritarian.

You KNOW Hillary is.

Yup. In fact, there was only one politician in any of the parties that could have competed with her for pure willingness to abuse government power to see their ends met. Sadly, the GOP seems about to nominate him.

Again, who is it you have been voting for all this time?

Republicans. Generally straight party ticket. This will be my first time since 2000 (when I started voting) to vote for a non-Republican for POTUS.

My guy was Cruz... but he didn't get the nomination

So you decided to back someone who stands opposed to every major principle that Cruz stood for. Well done.

So lets say Cruz or another staunchly conservative won the nomination. Based on your principles argument, everyone in the party not a conservative should not vote for your candidate, allow the other side to just win, right?

:shrug: they should vote for the person they feel best. The Party doesn't own it's voters - it is the party's job to win over the voters. If they can't do that :shrug: that's no one's fault but their own.

She was Secretary of State, you think she would be processing her own FOIA requests? She has someone to do that, probably several if she wants. Hell, she could probably have a 100 if she so desired.

eh. FOIA requests (I've had to handle a few) go through several layers, and so it's not unusual at all for 100 folks to end up having to work it. Not so for a single Principle, they'd have an administrative aide spend an hour or more (depending) on the task, if they don't have an office already dedicated (probably at the Cabinet level they do).

That, however, has nothing whatsoever to do with protecting information FROM FOIA requests, which is why Hillary set up the server that she did, and put her senior trusted staff on it.

That is just, how to nicely put it, so naively cute of you to think so highly of the actual intentions might be of this criminally corrupt leech on the system.

Actually it's attempt to skirt the law. :) I've also been one of the most consistent posters here in repeatedly pointing out her many felonies with that server. Between the two of us, only one of us has this as part of their actual job, and so, between the two of us, I think it's cute that you think that it is I who am naïve :).

Oh, that is such an astute assessment, very high level stuff there, will win you many accolades on the lib side, as that is exactly their style of description.

I don't care about winning accolades on the lib side. People here have known me for years, and they know where I stand and have always stood. I have the reputation here that I do (both for good and for ill) because of what I've done and said and argued and how I've done it, not because you don't like the fact that between Trump and Hillary, the chief difference is that she's more corrupt and he's more crazy.
 
Cpwill isn't hollow and wont vote for a life long liberal turned reality tv star turned authoritarian nativist. You seem bothered by this.

Gaugingcatenate said:
That makes so much sense, heck, you could be a Democrat with that style of reasoning. Are you for sure you aren't?



:) Hatuey, you've been here for a minute. Perhaps you can help the gentleman. How serious is the accusation that I'm a secret liberal democrat, and that my opposition to Trump is rooted in my partisan democrat lean?
 
Oh look, I continue to have called that perfectly :) It's all going to be ignored by those who don't want to know the truth about the guy they will be voting for.

You were given logical, common sense reasons for not voting for a third party

:lol: No I wasn't.

It was suggested that I should want to vote for the candidate that has the best chance of winning (no thanks, I have no intention of voting for Hillary)

Then it was suggested that Trump might be closer to my values than Hillary (no he isn't).

Where were the logical common sense reasons? Because otherwise Hillary will win? Maybe. But if I don't vote for Hillary, Trump will win. Both are big liberal big government authoritarians, and I reject both.

but you ignored them just like you ignored the question as to who you will be voting for that meets your criteria?

Actually I did answer that question: probably either Keniston or Johnson, but I need to do more research on Keniston first to make sure.

You are a liberal marketing dream

No, I'm an actual Conservative. A breed that has sadly turned out to be far rarer than I thought this time last year. :(
 
Oh look, I continue to have called that perfectly :) It's all going to be ignored by those who don't want to know the truth about the guy they will be voting for.



:lol: No I wasn't. It was suggested that I should want to vote for the candidate that has the best chance of winning (no thanks, I have no intention of voting for Hillary), and then it was suggested that Trump might be closer to my values than Hillary (no he isn't).



Actually I did answer that question: probably either Keniston or Johnson, but I need to do more research on Keniston first to make sure.



No, I'm an actual Conservative. A breed that has sadly turned out to be far rarer than I thought this time last year. :(

No, you live in a dream world where the perfect candidate is someone in your mind not in the real world. It is better to fight from within that from the outside where you can only sit and complain. I see a lot of principled people like you with zero logic and no common sense. There is no ACTUAL conservative on the ballot just one a better option than Hillary regardless of what you say. Trump is an outsider, Trump has no ties and is beholden to no one, Trump has actual economic results and experience in dealing with a P&L. Trump won't take can crap from Iran, China, or Russia and will make Muslims and people wanting to immigrate to this country earn the right to come here and I have absolutely no problem with that.
 
Lol, Trump's experience is from an authoritarian perspective. He says it, he is the boss, everyone else does what he says. He also believes +80% of whites are killed by blacks. He is a pretty disgusting individual. Completely un presidential and representative of the Twitter generation. Speaks first and asks questions later. You seem bothered by this.


Sent from a flower watered by the tears of Trump supporters and crazy newb liberals.

I really don't think someone who supports Hillary should be talking about qualifications for the office and anyone who has supported Obama is in the same boat. It does seem you are motivated by people who say what you want to hear instead of putting this country first. You deserve Hillary the rest of us don't
 
No, you live in a dream world where the perfect candidate is someone in your mind not in the real world

Nope. I voted for McCain, I voted for Romney. There were 17 candidates running this year and I probably could have voted for 15 of them. I'm not interested in chasing utopian visions - I'm a Conservative. We don't believe in immanentizing the eschaton. But I'm equally uninterested in voting for big government liberal authoritarians. :) Which is why I won't vote for Trump.

It is better to fight from within that from the outside where you can only sit and complain.

:shrug: inside of what? You want to be part of the next administration? Join the Hillary Campaign Staff.

I see a lot of principled people like you with zero logic and no common sense

You keep using those words. I do not think they mean what you think they mean.

There is no ACTUAL conservative on the ballot

Not at the top of the GOP or DNC ticket, certainly. So I'll have to go find one :) Johnson is a half-option. I haven't finished looking into Keniston yet, but he seems good.

Just one a better option than Hillary regardless of what you say.

No. If anything, Trump is probably a slightly worse option, simply because of the complete incapability to provide governance. Hillary would be awful, but she would be steady-state awful, and she would face a unified opposition from the Republican Party, probably resulting in an acceptable candidate winning in 2020 and then again in 2024.

Trump is an outsider

Which is another way of saying "Trump has no idea what he's doing". I'm a conservative. We value competence.

However, no he isn't. He's been part of the political machine since he started in business, because that's how his daddy set him up to do business.

Trump has no ties and is beholden to no one

:shrug: Trump is deeply in debt to Wall Street Banks and has no cash to run a campaign with, meaning that he's going to be completely beholden to the donor class. Hilariously, given that he ran on the opposite. One more con to chalk onto the list.

Trump has actual economic results

Yeah. ****ty ones. And his policies are even worse.

and experience in dealing with a P&L. Trump won't take can crap from Iran, China, or Russia

No, because he's too busy playing kissy face with them and being endorsed by them. As linked above, which you ignored :)
 
:) Hatuey, you've been here for a minute. Perhaps you can help the gentleman. How serious is the accusation that I'm a secret liberal democrat, and that my opposition to Trump is rooted in my partisan democrat lean?

About as serious as the accusation that I am a secret KKK member from upstate NYC who has never left the US.


Sent from a flower watered by the tears of Trump supporters and crazy newb liberals.
 
Nope. I voted for McCain, I voted for Romney. There were 17 candidates running this year and I probably could have voted for 15 of them. I'm not interested in chasing utopian visions - I'm a Conservative. We don't believe in immanentizing the eschaton. But I'm equally uninterested in voting for big government liberal authoritarians. :) Which is why I won't vote for Trump.



:shrug: inside of what? You want to be part of the next administration? Join the Hillary Campaign Staff.



You keep using those words. I do not think they mean what you think they mean.



Not at the top of the GOP or DNC ticket, certainly. So I'll have to go find one :) Johnson is a half-option. I haven't finished looking into Keniston yet, but he seems good.



No. If anything, Trump is probably a slightly worse option, simply because of the complete incapability to provide governance. Hillary would be awful, but she would be steady-state awful, and she would face a unified opposition from the Republican Party, probably resulting in an acceptable candidate winning in 2020 and then again in 2024.



Which is another way of saying "Trump has no idea what he's doing". I'm a conservative. We value competence.

However, no he isn't. He's been part of the political machine since he started in business, because that's how his daddy set him up to do business.



:shrug: Trump is deeply in debt to Wall Street Banks and has no cash to run a campaign with, meaning that he's going to be completely beholden to the donor class. Hilariously, given that he ran on the opposite. One more con to chalk onto the list.



Yeah. ****ty ones. And his policies are even worse.



No, because he's too busy playing kissy face with them and being endorsed by them. As linked above, which you ignored :)

you make my point, there is no such thing except in your mind a perfect candidate. McCain was far from Conservative but beat the alternative. Romney would have made a better President than Obama but that is water over the damn. The choice now is Hillary or Trump. I will take the business man over the phony, lying bitch.

You buy what you are told posting links but not reading the context. I don't recall Trump having an Ambassador killed, being under investigation for violating our national security by using her own server, or having a diplomat being extradited showing no leadership skills.

Sorry but you simply are out of touch with reality
 
Nope...

Nope...

She's in favor of it...

Oh, she has spent years being in favor of generally limiting second amendment rights.

Probably.

Yup...
These are exactly the gyrations, the mental gymnastics I was talking about. Where is the thread on that super conservative guy/girl..that you will be voting for?

1. Surrogate? Show me his own views, Trump saying this. Trump says lots of things, show me where he says what this guy does.

2. Trump the same on illegal immigration? Per article- says he will deport all 11 million, "So what Trump is proposing today—sending illegal immigrants back to their home countries and then allowing the “good ones” to return in an “expedited” fashion—" As the article proposed, probably along the lines KB Hutchinson's, Rep senator, Texas, proposed bill requiring "immigrants to return to their home countries to apply for a special “Z visa” that would allow them to re-enter the United States in an expedited fashion and work here indefinitely." Apply does not imply they will get the visa... and allowing good ones to return? I am for legal immigration, I like immigrants, many of my best/most appreciative students were immigrants from countries like Venezuela, even Brazil. They understood that where they came from the laws don't allow people to feel free nor safe. Article, "This means there is very little difference between his plan and what John Kasich and Jeb Bush are supporting." I don't know if all conservatives would go for that, but sounds reasonable.

Who is your candidate again? What is THEIR plan?

3. I am in agreement with viable/valid threats to our safety being on a watch list and, if on said list, not being able to legally own arms. Let them know/give them Due Process if American citizens, Viola', problem solved.

4. Reagan was a former Democrat/at one time for abortion. People can/do smarten up, change their minds over time I have a feeling you will not, however. To imply Trump and Hillary's views on gun control are similar, well, just disingenuous...

5. Probably? Probably only in a liberal's dream....OMG, Trump's disasters? Notice how many things he is involved with, how many actual products/services on that list? List of his accomplishments vs Hillary's, what products/services has she successfully developed ... hmmmm...? Again, either you are losing it or just being disingenuous. Which?

6. He didn't have the whole Middle East basically collapse on him, our enemies more potent now and our allies less trusting of the US. Nor did he let 4 people die without any American assistance given during an all night siege and blame it on a video, or put our state secrets on a private server to be hacked by who knows who... Paul's statements as an opposing candidate? Really? Paul's statement basically indicting everyone running but him, "“This is what is very worrisome not only about Trump but Christie and others on the stage who are really eager to have war, really eager to show how strong they are,” .

7. I don't expect Trump to know every single Muslim Jihadist, expect him to put people in place that will keep him informed/advise him. He makes the decision. Expect him to be an expert on everything? Be realistic. Don't think there are people far more knowledgeable than Hillary on the right from whom to obtain accurate assessments? Gotcha questions only behoove those confirming their bias.

8. There is much to admire/fear with Putin. Better'n bowing low to the Saudi King

9. Global enemies? Article named China, that would be global enemy. They can do what they please. "Between Trump and Hillary Clinton," the article continues, Trump may be a better choice because he is a negotiator rather than a hardened ideologue"

10. Thanks, nice article. The European AND Hillary's take on Trump? C'mon, the article says some good things about Trump, also tried to make him look the fool, disingenuous as in this instance, "And that would be the ruling principle of his foreign policy: If America gets hit, it hits back harder. And if someone threatens to hit America, Washington hits them first." No quote of him on that. Even so, personally I am not against the idea if a valid threat is issued, why wait. Too, puts folks on notice not to be threatening America. Bravo.

Especially liked the NATO portion/reassessing the whole situation. The Soviet Union no longer exists, do we need military bases in Germany? Yes, lets have some of the rest of the world pay for the defense we've supplied at American tax payer expense for 60 years.

11. You acknowledge she steals, Trump PROBABLY WILL TOO? Probably?

12. Funny, the establishment seems to be doing everything it can think of to sink his candidacy. Why? If he is in their hip pocket?

Dude, fluff pieces hardly worthy of a conservative. Sorry. Bad logic, poor articles, faulty premise.
 
That allows them to select from amongst themselves their members who are able to access the target at will by weeding out those who cannot.

It's a way of telegraphing "Hey, if you have this guy attack us, we'll stop you - but if you have this guy do it instead, we won't".
Yes, so lets just throw up our arms and surrender, let them all do as they please. Where has that positively worked out?
 
you make my point, there is no such thing except in your mind a perfect candidate.

That's correct, there isn't. Humanity is fallen.

McCain was far from Conservative but beat the alternative

That's correct - but Trump does not.

Romney would have made a better President than Obama

Yup. Trump would not.

The choice now is Hillary or Trump.

Nope. There are several choices. But between Trump and Hillary, there is a choice only in style. Ones' more corrupt, the other more crazy.

I will take the business man over the phony, lying bitch.

:shrug: I don't intend to vote for either phony lying.. individual.

You buy what you are told

:2funny: no :) if I merely bought what I was told, I'd be voting Trump, because that's what habitual Republicans are supposed to do, right? Vote for the tribe.

No thanks.

I don't recall Trump having an Ambassador killed, being under investigation for violating our national security by using her own server, or having a diplomat being extradited showing no leadership skills.

Sure, Hillary is a corrupt and incompetent criminal. Sadly, that makes her no better than the GOP nominee.

Sorry but you simply are out of touch with reality

No. I am seeing clearly enough to challenge my own instincts.



Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
 
Yes, so lets just throw up our arms and surrender, let them all do as they please. Where has that positively worked out?
Not at all. The TIDE database should merely remain classified.

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
 
:) Hatuey, you've been here for a minute. Perhaps you can help the gentleman. How serious is the accusation that I'm a secret liberal democrat, and that my opposition to Trump is rooted in my partisan democrat lean?
I will give you a hint, if you are thinking that a character reference from basic slinger of fairly smarmy one liners, sometimes a few more, but very little of substance from what I have seen, will do much good... well, I would suggest finding someone whose opinion and judgement on such matters that I might be a little more willing to accept.

No offense truly intended, just the practical facts. Just saying. Besides, I have been here over three years, I am observant.
 
These are exactly the gyrations, the mental gymnastics I was talking about.

:lol: says the guy who had to cut out the entire point of that post, which his where I linked for you ad nauseum how Trump was guilty of everything you were trying to use to build a case against Hillary.

I predicted you'd respond with a "See No Evil" approach, and that Conservative would "like" it. :) it's always good to be right.
 
:lol: says the guy who had to cut out the entire point of that post, which his where I linked for you ad nauseum how Trump was guilty of everything you were trying to use to build a case against Hillary.

I predicted you'd respond with a "See No Evil" approach, and that Conservative would "like" it. :) it's always good to be right.

You are certainly a legend in your own mind, someone who cannot admit they are wrong on any subject which makes you a liberal. The issue is logic and common sense which apparently you don't have as you don't get it. We are less safe today than we were 7 years ago and a mistake was made in putting Obama in the WH. Now because of your so called principles and lack of logic and common sense you would make the same mistake over again by giving us 4 more years of an unqualified candidate with zero leadership skills and no foreign policy or economic successes.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
Where is the thread on that super conservative guy/girl..that you will be voting for?

As I've already said (twice), probably either Johnson or Keniston.

Surrogate? Show me his own views, Trump saying this. Trump says lots of things

Yeah - It's in one of those links that you chose to chop out and ignore ;). Everything - including the wall - is just a suggestion, because he's playing a part.

Trump the same on illegal immigration?

According to his own kid, yeah. Touchback Amnesty, with the "touchback" provision being the first thing likely to go in "negotiation". Because "the DREAMers convinced him" :roll:

Back in 2012 Trump was attacking Mitt Romney - Mitt Romney(!) - from the LEFT on Immigration. That's who he is.

I am in agreement with viable/valid threats to our safety being on a watch list and, if on said list, not being able to legally own arms.

Naturally. Because - as I predicted - Republicans will begin to defend Democrat positions (like you are here) if their Presidential candidate (who is himself a Democrat with an R after his name) does so.



TurtleDude - you catching this? All those people who you think will stand up to Trump on guns? They won't.



People can/do smarten up, change their minds over time

Sure. But when they are 70, and convert roughly 30 seconds before deciding to run for the GOP nomination, and then convert back once they get that nomination, they didn't actually change. They just suckered you.

To imply Trump and Hillary's views on gun control are similar...

is accurate. As demonstrated.

Trump's disasters?

:shrug: Yup. The last time we tried his brand of idiocy, it helped cause the Great Depression.

He didn't have the whole Middle East basically collapse on him, our enemies more potent now and our allies less trusting of the US

And yet, somehow, he manages to be even more ignorant and less competent to the task of foreign affairs than the people who did.

Look, I've been one of the biggest and most consistent critics of the Obama Administration's foreign policy.

And this:

Nor did he let 4 people die without any American assistance given during an all night siege

?

I have friends who were involved in this. You're not going to surprise me with the sudden realization that the Obama Administration's foreign policy has been atrocious. I've had a better vantage point than probably anyone in this forum with maybe the exception of about three individuals to observe how awful this Administration has been. That's not a reason to vote for someone who would be equally if not even more atrocious.

and blame it on a video

Yeah, because if there is one thing Trump doesn't do, it's tell ridiculous and offensive lies when doing so benefits him. :roll:

Paul's statements as an opposing candidate?

Feel free to look up the exchange. Trump clearly had no idea wtf he was talking about.

Expect him to be an expert on everything? ... Gotcha questions only behoove those confirming their bias

Expecting a Presidential candidate to know who we are at war with is not asking him to know every single Muslim Jihadist. Asking a Presidential candidate to know the difference between our most reliable allies in on the ground and Iranian special forces who train groups to kill us isn't demanding special expertise. The Nuclear Triad, which involves the most important decision any US President can make isn't a Gotcha Question. Those are the basics.

There is much to admire/fear with Putin. Better'n bowing low to the Saudi King

Again, you seem to have "I don't like Obama" confused with "therefore Trump is a good option compared to Hillary". Putin is a thug, he's an enemy, and Trump won't stand up to him because Putin said nice things about him, and Trump has that confused with American foreign policy interests.

Global enemies? Article named China

Yeah. Among those links that you conveniently edited out was North Korea and Russia, also global enemies. Who are praising/endorsing Trump. Because they prefer him. Because he's easily led.

Especially liked the NATO portion/reassessing the whole situation. The Soviet Union no longer exists, do we need military bases in Germany?

"I'm Vladimir Putin, and I approved that message."

You acknowledge she steals, Trump PROBABLY WILL TOO?

Both of them steal. Again, the main difference is one of style.

Funny, the establishment seems to be doing everything it can think of to sink his candidacy.

No it isn't. The Establishment mostly stayed out of the campaign, and since he wrapped it up, has been jumping on board.
 
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