Pensions, if you can get one, are now officially WORTHLESS

[Helix]

Any word on the politicians cutting into their own pensions and benefits?

It sickens me how much they tell the common people to tighten their belts, but we never see them tighten their own. And when they shut the government down, they kept their state of the art gym open and their exclusive transit system up and going. It's infuriating.

i have a fantasy about tying congressional pay and benefits to the national average. like forty five grand, ten vacation days (earned over the course of the year,) and a ****ty HMO. bet that would change some stuff for the average worker.

 

[SheWolf]

i have a fantasy about tying congressional pay and benefits to the national average. like forty five grand, ten vacation days (earned over the course of the year,) and a ****ty HMO. bet that would change some stuff for the average worker.

When will the voters figure this **** out and hold their feet to the fire? Instead we are all willing to cut programs, cut pensions, cut school funding, etc. We are willing to make sacrifices, and they constantly ask us to. Did the sequester even affect them... Where was the outrage??

The voters should insist DC politicians make sacrifices.

 

[iguanaman]

Well, its failing all over the world-just like pensions. Math isn't subjective-even if the left would like it to be.

What is failing here is our middle class. 35 years of supply-side voodoo economics have put them on the ropes. Your indifference to that is going to be the downfall of all you hold dear. It is just beginning.

 

[Linc]

a lawsuit would go nowhere, as you already know. we're all just going to have to take the hit, as workers in my state have with everything else. at least i learned something that will help me make better voting decisions.

The lawsuit in Illinois has gone somewhere over COLA as a diminished benefit as per the Constitution.
I partly credit that to Judges being in the public pension system with some of the highest pensions of all, far above the current cap recently instituted.
We now have a new GOP governor--should be interesting.

We've been down this road together before and I know you're pissed so I won't add to it.
It would take me several nights to explain why Illinois is in such dire straits.

Suffice it to say that commoners such as me, a retired teacher,
began cashing in on golden parachutes about 23 yeas ago, which administrators have had forever.

My prediction for Illinois is an amendment on the 2018 ballot, when DEMs don't vote, when the new governor runs again .

 

[Linc]

Rightists such as Crue Cab are some of the most vociferous about getting his guaranteed benefits here in Illinois for public pensions.
Not to mention COLA which is in our Constitution.
And please blame liberals as you always do, so I can point out such inconvenient truths as GOPs being governor from 1977-2003 .

Well, its failing all over the world-just like pensions. Math isn't subjective-even if the left would like it to be.

 

[US Conservative]

What is failing here is our middle class. 35 years of supply-side voodoo economics have put them on the ropes. Your indifference to that is going to be the downfall of all you hold dear. It is just beginning.

More discredited leftist dogma. :doh

The MATH does not add up. And its only going to get worse as less people are working (boomers retiring and entitlements).

 

[US Conservative]

the common people

Tell me who these people are, and how you define them.

 

[US Conservative]

Rightists such as Crue Cab are some of the most vociferous about getting his guaranteed benefits here in Illinois for public pensions.
Not to mention COLA which is in our Constitution.
And please blame liberals as you always do, so I can point out such inconvenient truths as GOPs being governor from 1977-2003 .

Gotta give credit where credit is due. If we left it to the left, this nation would look like Greece in 5 years.

 

[Linc]

When do you think Paul Ryan will means-test wealthy retirees who don't need Social Security?
As he tried to do last December with taking one of three COLA points from wealthy Veterans but was defeated by NeoCons like you in both parties.
Those of us who believe in means-testing are your generation's only salvation on pensions .

Gotta give credit where credit is due. If we left it to the left, this nation would look like Greece in 5 years.

 

[Linc]

You first .

Tell me who these people are, and how you define them.

 

[Linc]

Reagan's voodoo math is what didn't add up, as Bush-41 so correctly described.
Reagan's gift of an 18 trillion debt is the gift that keeps taking away from your future .

More discredited leftist dogma. :doh

The MATH does not add up. And its only going to get worse as less people are working (boomers retiring and entitlements).

 

[US Conservative]

When do you think Paul Ryan will means-test wealthy retirees who don't need Social Security?

Its their money, they were forced to pay it and they get to keep it. Are you advocating such wealth redistribution schemes?

 

[US Conservative]

Reagan's voodoo math is what didn't add up, as Bush-41 so correctly described.
Reagan's gift of an 18 trillion debt is the gift that keeps taking away from your future .

Cool story bro.

 

[Linc]

Its their money, they were forced to pay it and they get to keep it. Are you advocating such wealth redistribution schemes?

Then you're not at all serious about fixing the pension problem you blame on the people who you then say shouldn't lose what they don't need through means-testing.

Meaning you're against incoming Ways and Means chair Paul Ryan and for the further redistribution of wealth upward to the privileged few .

 

[US Conservative]

Then you're not at all serious about fixing the pension problem you blame on the people who you then say shouldn't lose what they don't need through means-testing.

Meaning you're against incoming Ways and Means chair Paul Ryan and for the further redistribution of wealth upward to the privileged few .

Even cooler story bro. I wish leftists would spend as much effort as they do trying to take from others on more productive ventures. Its not yours.

 

[gdgyva]

I know people on public pensions in the state of Ohio, and they took their jobs for the benefits. When the voters didn't allow Kasich to bust up the public unions, he decided to gut their pension plans and change their benefits. They aren't happy with the changes, but I don't see how the government making changes to public pensions is a slam-dunk lawsuit in either case. The hospitals, police and fire departments are not in charge of writing public pension policy, even if the pension is part of the contract, it's not in their hands to change or prevent the state government from altering...

are you saying that government employees "accepted" a lower paycheck because of guaranteed benefits later?

is this where this argument is going now?

where is the "guarantee" that you are referring to, or inferring about?

budgets are constantly being adjusted in both the private and public sector

in the "real" world, people get pink slips and layoffs

in the government, pay is frozen, and benefits are cut

there are ZERO guarantees on either side......i have worked for both

i was an gs11 right out of the air force....and left less than 2 years later

some want to deal with the governmental red tape.....it drove me nuts

but i NEVER had a guarantee in any job i have ever held......

and unless you work with an actual contract.......you dont work with any guarantees either

yes...normally the government jobs are less risky......but pay for most is level for most civilian jobs EXCEPT for the gm positions

 

[JoeTheEconomist]

pensions are going away because they no longer mathematically work

in the 50's you worked for 35 years, retired at 55-60, and lived maybe another 10-12 years on average

now you work the same years, retire at 55-60, the employer may be on the hook for double that time.....20-25 years of payouts

blame modern medicine.....if our life spans hadnt kept increasing so rapidly, pensions would probably still be happening

but...you can blame the rich.....it is your go to move

Your thought may be right, but your facts aren't. People turning 65 in 1935 lived on average about 13 years. By the 1950s, that figured had increased, but today on average a 65 year-old lives less than 20 years on average. It is about 19. People are living longer, but statistically it isn't in retirement. Pensions by and large are not appealing to companies because no one asks about them at a job interview. Pensions provide the exact same benefit as Social Security, so employees do not value them as much.

 

[JoeTheEconomist]

When do you think Paul Ryan will means-test wealthy retirees who don't need Social Security?
As he tried to do last December with taking one of three COLA points from wealthy Veterans but was defeated by NeoCons like you in both parties.
Those of us who believe in means-testing are your generation's only salvation on pensions .

Social Security already has a means-test for people with 'other substantial income'. It is a means-tested claw-back of benefits which is collected by the IRS and returned to the Social Security system. Originally it targeted people whose income exceeded the median income of a family of 4. Today it hits people who are marginally above poverty. So means-tests aren't a salvation - and they are already here.

 

[ProNos]

This is one of the great problems of our time. Instead of family capitalism, where corporations must invest in their employees as part of societies requirements to operate, we have shareholder capitalism, where it's all about shareholder payout and CEO pay. Of course small companies are in a different boat, which is why we need to be strengthening Social Security (yes, higher taxes), and reforming our healthcare system. The Nordic circle, the Germans, the Swiss, they got it right. We got it wrong.

Luckily I have a nice pension, because I made a good decision early on. Bottom line is we've allowed rapid free market hacks to ruin our system by pushing investment and profits up to an already super wealthy while stifling the growth and security of the middle class. This is will only get worse if we think a pure free market solution is our answer. That will simply not work. We need to learn from better models in Europe. Ours is failing.

 

[RGacky3]

pensions are going away because they no longer mathematically work

in the 50's you worked for 35 years, retired at 55-60, and lived maybe another 10-12 years on average

now you work the same years, retire at 55-60, the employer may be on the hook for double that time.....20-25 years of payouts

blame modern medicine.....if our life spans hadnt kept increasing so rapidly, pensions would probably still be happening

but...you can blame the rich.....it is your go to move

yes life has been lengthened, so hows Productivity and the amount of wealth created .... so no, it isn't mathematically impossible.