This has been very distorted by the press and left wing talking heads. Can you cite any legitimate violations, or cases of false imprisonment that have occurred?As you can see from the title this is going to be a very uplifting and happy discussion about the PATRIOT act. It is something that affects the lives (directly and indirectly) of every american citizen.
It's nearly four years now and the first one has yet to be seen.Squawker said:This has been very distorted by the press and left wing talking heads. Can you cite any legitimate violations, or cases of false imprisonment that have occurred?
slim said:We do not know if injustice has occured. You do not know if injustice has occured. None of us know what is going on.
As for it being the raving of the leftists. All i can say is, why should a nation of people live in fear of an invisible terrorist threat (you have more chance of catching tb than being killed by a terrorist) and suffer from draconian measures from an authoritarian administration in Washington?
Open up your eyes. Condolliza Rice is a cold and cruel businesswoman and she is in a position that endangers peace. I fear that a Bush dynasty could be set up if Jeb takes the banner.
This act is an affront to the people. The government does not trust you, why stick up for it?
How, exactly, have you suffered from the Patriot Act? Can you name anyone who has?
Blackflagx said:I myself have not, but I can name someone who has.
Source: From the Documentary "Unconstitutional"
(Not exact words from the Source)
Nadaline Hamoui and Her Family: Imigrant Arab-Americans who applied for political assylum from Syria.
On February 22, 2001 at 7:00 am, herself and her entire family were arrested with no charges against them and with no legal representation. Law Enforcement also used discrimination, informing the mother that she could not put on her scarf. They were then driven to an INS detention center in Seattle where they were all put into solitary confinement and received no legal representation and no charges. They remained there for 10 months, still with no legal representation.
The Hamouis were victims of the "Hold Until Clear Policy" enacted after September 11, under the authority of the Patriot Act.
So, whatever happend to "Innocent until proven guilty"? The Patriot Act violates so many parts of the Constitution I cant ever get into it. Law Enforcement can arrest anyone the SUSPECT of being a "potential" terrorist. This means that any Arab-American can be arrested, detained with no legal representation, and held until the end of the War on Terrorism.
So, your right, no one has ever suffered from the Patriot Act. :roll:
Blackflagx said:Sorry, typo on my part. 2002.
slim said:So you would justify the giving of powers to a group of men that you have never seen? You are happy to trust them with your life without question and with the risk of death?
We dont know how much of this power is being used wrongly because no-one is there to question it.
They could come after you next for just looking at them wrongly. If politicians are unhappy they could hold personal vendettas.
There are quite a few folks in this country who are not trustworthy, wouldn't you agree?slim said:We do not know if injustice has occured. You do not know if injustice has occured. None of us know what is going on.
In fifty years time i can see this act being put down in history as similar to Hitler or Stalin's regime.
As for it being the raving of the leftists. All i can say is, why should a nation of people live in fear of an invisible terrorist threat (you have more chance of catching tb than being killed by a terrorist) and suffer from draconian measures from an authoritarian administration in Washington?
Open up your eyes. Condolliza Rice is a cold and cruel businesswoman and she is in a position that endangers peace. I fear that a Bush dynasty could be set up if Jeb takes the banner.
This act is an affront to the people. The government does not trust you, why stick up for it?
If, if, if.slim said:So you would justify the giving of powers to a group of men that you have never seen? You are happy to trust them with your life without question and with the risk of death?
We dont know how much of this power is being used wrongly because no-one is there to question it. They could come after you next for just looking at them wrongly. If politicians are unhappy they could hold personal vendettas.
slim said:I havent read it or the indymedia but i hear the smane things over and over.
slim said:If you hear something the same from many different sources instead of trusting one source that may be bias then it is more accurate.
As for the terror threat being great. You have more chance of dying of flu than a terror attack unless your in Iraq. But we're not in Iraq so the rules should not apply. You dont see the govt. making radical (and costly) laws about flu.
It is a method of control that the government could be using to their advantage.
Knock knock. "Youre coming with us".
Thats all it takes if you let it happen.
alex said:I read that the Patriot Act is being used to arrest animal rights activists. I believe it was in Boston(?). This means that it IS being abused and therefore should not be renewed. Also, if the Patriot Act is so legit and only being used to capture terrorist, then why can't a judge authorize the action before it happens? Why is that not needed like it is with all other arrests and searches?
Congressman Lamar Smith conveniently provides myths about the Patriot Act that weren't the concern of the American people as a whole. While he talks about delayed search warrants and wiretaps, he fails to offer any explanation for the misuses of the act. Since its passage, a man accused of running a methamphetamine lab was prosecuted under the act, his lab labeled as a chemical weapon of mass destruction. Instead of getting the fair trial and sentencing which our founding fathers provided for, he is looking at possibly life in prison. Another man was charged with "terrorism using a weapon of mass destruction" after he built a pipe bomb and injured himself with it. Other people have had files created on them by local police chiefs for just protesting the war.
These charges are a blatant misuse of the act, but it goes further. He mentions that more than 300 persons in terrorism-related investigations have been used under the act, but he fails to mention that 250 of these cases were criminal charges under the law. He also doesn't mention how just six months after the act was passed the Justice Department held seminars on how to stretch the new wiretapping provisions beyond terror cases.
Finally, the most disturbing misuse of the law came after telemarketers ran a scam on the elderly, collecting $4.5 million dollars and placing it in banks in Jordan and Israel. Instead of working with these countries to obtain the money, the United States simply seized the assets under the act. These grave injustices done to other countries and our own people are the reason people don't like the Patriot Act. It begs the question, if our government is so willing to push other countries and unfairly prosecute our criminals, where will they stop expanding and stretching their power?
Chris Wilson
Computer sciences sophomore
I can't remember ever having read a rationalization in which anything resembling common sense was so obviously lacking.swampkritter said:Even if the Patriot Act hasn't been abused to date, there is no guarantee that it won't be abused in the future either by the current administration or the next.
This is why the Patriot Act is a bad idea.
:hitsfan:
swampkritter said:Even if the Patriot Act hasn't been abused to date, there is no guarantee that it won't be abused in the future either by the current administration or the next.
This is why the Patriot Act is a bad idea.
:hitsfan:
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