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Paris Under Curfew: Europe Reacts As Countries See Highest-Ever Coronavirus Numbers

Helix

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It seems likely that we'll have another shutdown, too. I guess I'd better stock up again.
 

Mongidig

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Or maybe just value living life. There is nothing dumb about deciding to enjoy your summer and suffering a slightly higher risk.

of course you lefties believe society should be centrally controlled, live in a pod, ride light rail, eat bugs, do what the cathedral tells you
I bet many of you are in debt up to your eyeballs. You seem to gravitate to instant gratification without thinking through the consequences. I hope these folks enjoyed their summer because they will not enjoy their winter.
 

OlNate

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Numbers of cases are not relevant. Most cases are not serious, and these numbers might just reflect increased testing.

Only hospitalizations and death rates should be considered.
Uh, no, that's dumb.

But it does kind of explain the mentality behind those keeping us perpetually entrenched in this nightmare.
 

EMNofSeattle

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I bet many of you are in debt up to your eyeballs. You seem to gravitate to instant gratification without thinking through the consequences. I hope these folks enjoyed their summer because they will not enjoy their winter.
I am actually financially very well off. I never lost any work because of the pandemic, in fact I actually work more hours than I did before it. The pandemic has been great for me because I have been making a lot of money and had fewer opportunities to spend it.

But sure, there are plenty of people who are not as fortunate as me and who are probably in deeper debt than they ever were because of economic shut down
 

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Blah blah blah, that is nearest self righteous moralizing on your part. If you can provide 100% certain documentary evidence that you have not spread any infectious disease to anybody ever then I will take you seriously on this. In fact you might’ve spread COVID-19 and not even known it. There is no legal or moral obligation for anyone to protect you from getting sick.
Your lack of caring for anyone but yourself, is noted.
 

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Damn, that NZ story is amazing! To be Coronavirus-free. Imagine the personal freedom? And, the free economy! I'm envious!
Yeah, you mean when close to 40% of Kiwis are now dependent on government welfare? How long do you think they can keep that up?
 

EMNofSeattle

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Yeah, you mean when close to 40% of Kiwis are now dependent on government welfare? How long do you think they can keep that up?
Forever, once people get welfare in a democracy they will never vote for anyone who promises to cut it
 

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Yeah, you mean when close to 40% of Kiwis are now dependent on government welfare? How long do you think they can keep that up?
That number then would seem to be similar to the number of Americans on the doll during non-corona times!
 

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That number then would seem to be similar to the number of Americans on the doll during non-corona times!
Still doesnt address my point: how long do you think the world can keep this up?
 

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Still doesnt address my point: how long do you think the world can keep this up?
As long as it takes to remain safe, I suppose. If we're already supporting 40% of our fellow Americans during ordinary times, I suspect Australia can for another 6-12 months. But, why? If they've really beaten down the virus, they can open-up a bit better.
 

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As long as it takes to remain safe, I suppose. If we're already supporting 40% of our fellow Americans during ordinary times, I suspect Australia can for another 6-12 months. But, why? If they've really beaten down the virus, they can open-up a bit better.
New Zealand's economy is a tiny fraction compared to ours. They wont be able to barricade themselves for long- and when they do have to open up, you can bet the virus will be back, and it'll be like lambs to the slaughter.
 

Chomsky

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New Zealand's economy is a tiny fraction compared to ours. They wont be able to barricade themselves for long- and when they do have to open up, you can bet the virus will be back, and it'll be like lambs to the slaughter.
Size of the economy doesn't matter. In terms of GDP per capita, we're not greatly different. Once they're vaccinated, like with any other disease, they'll be fine. And as committed & organized as they are, they'll likely be way before us. Maybe the end of next year.
 

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Size of the economy doesn't matter. In terms of GDP per capita, we're not greatly different. Once they're vaccinated, like with any other disease, they'll be fine. And as committed & organized as they are, they'll likely be way before us. Maybe the end of next year.
This isnt Hollywood. First of all there isnt any vaccine, and second of all they dont wipe out pandemics.
 

COTO

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Numbers of cases are not relevant. Most cases are not serious, and these numbers might just reflect increased testing.

Only hospitalizations and death rates should be considered.
I have to agree. The number of infected people is irrelevant save for these two metrics.

The ironic thing about many of these re-lockdowns (aside from the obvious fact that the first round of lockdowns accomplished nothing except to delay the inevitable) is that "the science" has been against lockdowns since before the pandemic started.

Masking and social distancing, yes, but epidemiologists have consistently maintained that lockdowns are not the solution. It's the politicians who want lockdowns--or rather, are forced into them by a reactionary public who will unreasonably blame them for every death if they don't.

And to make matters worse, now food prices are starting to skyrocket and food banks are running dry the world over. So let's cut production a little more, shall we?

This is madness. If the European politicians are terrified of COVID, they're going to love food riots, inflation riots, and dealing with millions of destitute, unemployed people with nothing left to lose. Watch them enforce their curfews, shutdowns, and martial law then.
 

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I have to agree. The number of infected people is irrelevant save for these two metrics.

The ironic thing about many of these re-lockdowns (aside from the obvious fact that the first round of lockdowns accomplished nothing except to delay the inevitable) is that "the science" has been against lockdowns since before the pandemic started.

Masking and social distancing, yes, but epidemiologists have consistently maintained that lockdowns are not the solution. It's the politicians who want lockdowns--or rather, are forced into them by a reactionary public who will unreasonably blame them for every death if they don't.

And to make matters worse, now food prices are starting to skyrocket and food banks are running dry the world over. So let's cut production a little more, shall we?

This is madness. If the European politicians are terrified of COVID, they're going to love food riots, inflation riots, and dealing with millions of destitute, unemployed people with nothing left to lose. Watch them enforce their curfews, shutdowns, and martial law then.
Trump didn't want to shut down the economy at the beginning. The Democrats have to think and do exactly the opposite of what ever Trump says or does, so Democrats are all for lockdowns, and blame Trump for all the deaths. And they also manage to blame Trump for the economic problems caused by the lockdowns that he didn't want, at first.
 

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I bet many of you are in debt up to your eyeballs. You seem to gravitate to instant gratification without thinking through the consequences. I hope these folks enjoyed their summer because they will not enjoy their winter.
Yes, the West has become smug, spoiled and complacent to the point where any perceived intrusion into our comfortable and entitled lives-like the minor inconvenience of wearing a mask-evokes hysterical whining about 'rights' violations and how 'unconstitutional' social distancing measures are. Then, of course, there's the illusion of 'freedom' where people don't understand that they're only as 'free' as their government sees fit. "Freedom's just another word for 'nothing left to lose' ".
 

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Paris Under Curfew: Europe Reacts As Countries See Highest-Ever Coronavirus Numbers https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...-countries-see-highest-ever-coronavirus-numbe

Coronavirus restrictions are taking effect in the Netherlands, the U.K., the Czech Republic and other parts of Europe on Wednesday as nations try to reverse an alarming wave in new cases. The continent is now seeing more new coronavirus cases – an average of 100,000 daily — than at any other time during the pandemic

Bars, restaurants and schools are being shut down or sharply limited, and officials are working to bolster hospital capacity, to accommodate an expected influx of new COVID-19 patients.

Numbers that showed signs of taking off in late August and September are now skyrocketing. Europe reported more than 700,000 new coronavirus cases last week – a surge representing a 36% weekly increase, as NPR's Reese Oxner recently reported.

Europe's infection rate "has been increasing for 77 days," the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control said in its most recent weekly report for the European Economic Area and the United Kingdom.

In France, President Emmanuel Macron used a nationally televised interview Wednesday night to announce the start of nightly curfews in Paris and eight other densely populated areas in an effort to control the coronavirus in what are deemed "health emergency zones."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shut down? Keep businesses open? Mandate masks?

These are all questions that everyone in the world is finding out for themselves. There's no guide book for Covid-19, and despite what we know about this virus, there's a lot more that we don't know.

How does a country like New Zealand with a population of 4.8 million, get through the first wave of Covid-19 with just 25 deaths and 1,876 total infections, while the city Los Angeles, with roughly the same number of people, 4 million has had 16,769 deaths and 868,000 known infections?

Here's how New Zealand accomplished this;
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2025203

The government implemented a stringent countrywide lockdown (designated Alert Level 4) on March 26. During this period of exponentially increasing local cases, many people wondered whether these intensive controls would work. After 5 weeks, and with the number of new cases declining rapidly, New Zealand moved to Alert Level 3 for an additional 2 weeks, resulting in a total of 7 weeks of what was essentially a national stay-at-home order.

In early May, the last known Covid-19 case was identified in the community and the person was placed in isolation, which marked the end of identified community spread. On June 8, the government announced a move to Alert Level 1, thereby effectively declaring the pandemic over in New Zealand, 103 days after the first identified case.
It's well-known most of European 'politicians' have IQ not nigher as 40 or 50
 

Metric Mouse

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It's well-known most of European 'politicians' have IQ not nigher as 40 or 50
Yes, but that's 50 on the metric scale...
 

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Let's all be honest here, unless everyone is on the same page as far as taking precautions like wearing a mask, social distancing and frequent hand washing, this virus isn't going to end and the economy will worsen. Our national debt could be as high as 18 trillion dollars in 2 years. Food shortages will happen as this progresses and yes, there will be violence since people will be experiencing desperation like they've never thought was possible. There will be food shortages, companies will continue to fold up, rents and mortgages will go unpaid, hospitals will start going broke and be dependent on the government to bail them out. That will happen, the government will bail out some hospitals, not all. Big city hospitals will get help, small local community hospitals won't. Medical staffing is going to be short and that's already becoming a reality. A hospital may have adequate ICU beds but without appropriate staff, who's going to take care of those people on ventilators?

Let's say a safe vaccine comes out tomorrow, it will first be given to front line workers, essential personnel like police, fire, etc. and people at high risk due to chronic health conditions and to the elderly and prisoners. That's who gets the vaccine first. After those people have been vaccinated then the general population. This will take many months. How long will any vaccine offer protection against Covid-19? Nobody knows for certain but it has been projected to provide protection for 3 - 6 months, which means everyone will have to get another vaccine or booster several times a year.

In two years, people are going to look back at what their position was today about social distancing and masks and realize they have made a grave mistake believing Trump's lies and actually trying to spread this virus to reach 'herd immunity' which is not a realistic goal in a country of 328 million people. This virus is so virulent that the threshold for herd immunity is probably very high --perhaps 80–90 percent of the population infected. Less virulent pathogens can be stopped by herd immunity at 40–50 percent. There isn’t lasting full immunity to the virus. It looks like antibodies stay for 3–6 months. After that, your immune system’s T-cells can still likely recognize it and will fight it if you catch it again, but this doesn’t prevent reinfection.
 

COTO

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Trump didn't want to shut down the economy at the beginning. The Democrats have to think and do exactly the opposite of what ever Trump says or does, so Democrats are all for lockdowns, and blame Trump for all the deaths. And they also manage to blame Trump for the economic problems caused by the lockdowns that he didn't want, at first.
I frankly don't care who wants what, or why. Nor do I think it wise to say "Not locking down was Pres. Trump's policy" or "Not locking down was the Democrats' policy". Statements like these turn an issue like lockdown into partisan us-vs-them issues that only cause both sides to become more deeply entrenched.

What matters is the following: 1. Continue the masking and social distancing for at least another six months, since these measures have proven reasonably effective in "flattening the curve" without causing too much social and economic damage. 2. Avoid further lockdowns, which don't work (i.e. they only delay the inevitable), are not supported by epidemiologists, and cause incalculable social and economic damage.

As long as these things happen, who cares whose ideas they are?
 

COTO

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Our national debt could be as high as 18 trillion dollars in 2 years.
Do you mean "as high as 28 trillion by the end of the year"?

You're at $27 trillion and change right now, not including agency debt and unfunded liabilities.
 

HumblePi

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Do you mean "as high as 28 trillion by the end of the year"?

You're at $27 trillion and change right now, not including agency debt and unfunded liabilities.
Yes, you are correct and my figures were wrong. It's becoming harder to look into the future, nothing happening right now appears to be making a difference, we're going in the wrong direction. I don't even know what Joe Biden could do about it all. It appears the entire world is in for some big troubles ahead.
 

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I frankly don't care who wants what, or why. Nor do I think it wise to say "Not locking down was Pres. Trump's policy" or "Not locking down was the Democrats' policy". Statements like these turn an issue like lockdown into partisan us-vs-them issues that only cause both sides to become more deeply entrenched.

What matters is the following: 1. Continue the masking and social distancing for at least another six months, since these measures have proven reasonably effective in "flattening the curve" without causing too much social and economic damage. 2. Avoid further lockdowns, which don't work (i.e. they only delay the inevitable), are not supported by epidemiologists, and cause incalculable social and economic damage.

As long as these things happen, who cares whose ideas they are?
I didn't say I want politics to be involved. I said it HAS become involved. Some Democrats would rather see the economy destroyed than see Trump win. The lockdowns make Trump look bad, and are likely to make him lose the election.

Most Democrats I know are retired or wealthy, or have good work from home jobs. They are not thinking about everyone who lost their business or job.
 
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