Palestinians protest Hamas

[Mika-El]

You seem pretty convinced that you know more about what Palestinians and Israelis want than they do.

Hang on you the same can be said about you can it not?

1. Can you please not come on this board and try bluff your way through a topic you clearly do not understand and that is the Hamas-Fatah conflict. Please stop. Its pointless. Go back, educate yourself on both.

Here this is the closest anyone can say about them at this time and no they are not allied stop it.

Hamas and Fatah bicker over who has direct talks with US

Al-Hajj fears that these differences could fragment international efforts to rebuild Gaza after the massive destruction caused by the war.

www.newarab.com

2. You and I and all other armchair geniuses sitting far from the conflict zone know nothing. We write, we talk but we know sweet phack all other than we read on the internet. Admit that. Start with that. You and I do not speak for Israelis or Palestinians. You also try speak like you are an authority on Hamas Fatah relations. Come on.



3. Here is the closest and latest thing I could refer you to as an idea of what probably most Israelis think and even then I caution you not to think you know what they or Palestinians believe or want:

Israeli official says neither Israel nor Hamas will rule Gaza after war

"It will not be Hamas, it will not be Israel," Israeli Deputy Consul General Tsach Saar told Newsweek.

www.newsweek.com

This I think it is safe two say:

a-Israelis are absolutely fed up with Gaza, Lebanon and the West Bank in terms of the constant terror threat to Israelis-there no.1 desire is remove all terrorists from being able to attack them;

b-Israelis want the remaining 59 hostages returned knowing many of them are dead;

c-the Israelis want Gaza free of any armed terrorists of any kind whether it be Hamas or any other faction;

d-the Israelis want Syria and Lebanon free of any terrorists attacking Israel;

e-the Israelis do not want Iran to attack Israel with nuclear war heads or missiles-Israel knows as we speak Iran could send in a drone, a missile with low level nuclear radiation or a germ that could wipe out Israel but that would kill many Muslims too and is the only thing holding Iran back at this point-that and China who desperately need their gas and oil; China has a not so secret military treaty with Israel that has prevented an out and out war do far-Turkey supports Hamas as does Putin but Turkey also despises Putin and Iran-Turkey is a wild card sometimes helping Iran and Russia in Syria, Lebanon and against Israel and somedays Turkey and Russian right over Ukraine-a major irritant between Turkey and Iran-how to deal with the Kurds in Northern Iraq and Iran is on hold for now-the US appears to be allied with Israel over the Houthis and Iran but a major split has occurrred because Israel no longer trusts the US over its ties to Putin-Netanyahu who represents the pro Trump right wing factions in Israel hangs to government by placating right wing coalition members but each day he plays step and fetch it to Trump in media displays more and more Israelis are getting fed up-the average Israeli knows Trump is unpredictable and in bed with Putin and therefore can not be trusted'

f-the Israeli military does not and has never liked Netanyahu-the average person who fights in the IDF is fed up, thinks Netanyahu is a showboat and is not the kind of person they want leading them-Israelis do not like bellicose, loud, confrontational dialogue that Putin, Trump and Netanyahu engage in;

g-the Israeli military could if they had the chance work with Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Qatar and the UAE in a post war Gaza run by neither the Palestinian Authority or Hamas but the practical reality is any post Gaza administration would soon be riddled with kick backs and corruptions which is the way of business in Middle East Islamic countries;

h-Palestinians live in the moment on toxic rubble with constant threats from shortages of food, water, heating, shelter. In their world no one wants them and talk they would on consent move to Africa or anywhere else is absolutely false and no Israeli in their right mind thinks they can be forced out or would so such a thing. That is an American concept not an Israeli one and when Netanyahu acted like a monkey parroting back Trump's Gaza idea it soon fell apart within Israel.

Palestinians still for the most part believe all of Israel, Jordan, Gaza and the West Bank should be a Muslim caliphate.

 

[MamboDervish]

Hang on you the same can be said about you can it not?

1. Can you please not come on this board and try bluff your way through a topic you clearly do not understand and that is the Hamas-Fatah conflict. Please stop. Its pointless. Go back, educate yourself on both.

Here this is the closest anyone can say about them at this time and no they are not allied stop it.

Hamas and Fatah bicker over who has direct talks with US

Al-Hajj fears that these differences could fragment international efforts to rebuild Gaza after the massive destruction caused by the war.

www.newarab.com

2. You and I and all other armchair geniuses sitting far from the conflict zone know nothing. We write, we talk but we know sweet phack all other than we read on the internet. Admit that. Start with that. You and I do not speak for Israelis or Palestinians. You also try speak like you are an authority on Hamas Fatah relations. Come on.



3. Here is the closest and latest thing I could refer you to as an idea of what probably most Israelis think and even then I caution you not to think you know what they or Palestinians believe or want:

Israeli official says neither Israel nor Hamas will rule Gaza after war

"It will not be Hamas, it will not be Israel," Israeli Deputy Consul General Tsach Saar told Newsweek.

www.newsweek.com

This I think it is safe two say:

a-Israelis are absolutely fed up with Gaza, Lebanon and the West Bank in terms of the constant terror threat to Israelis-there no.1 desire is remove all terrorists from being able to attack them;

b-Israelis want the remaining 59 hostages returned knowing many of them are dead;

c-the Israelis want Gaza free of any armed terrorists of any kind whether it be Hamas or any other faction;

d-the Israelis want Syria and Lebanon free of any terrorists attacking Israel;

e-the Israelis do not want Iran to attack Israel with nuclear war heads or missiles-Israel knows as we speak Iran could send in a drone, a missile with low level nuclear radiation or a germ that could wipe out Israel but that would kill many Muslims too and is the only thing holding Iran back at this point-that and China who desperately need their gas and oil; China has a not so secret military treaty with Israel that has prevented an out and out war do far-Turkey supports Hamas as does Putin but Turkey also despises Putin and Iran-Turkey is a wild card sometimes helping Iran and Russia in Syria, Lebanon and against Israel and somedays Turkey and Russian right over Ukraine-a major irritant between Turkey and Iran-how to deal with the Kurds in Northern Iraq and Iran is on hold for now-the US appears to be allied with Israel over the Houthis and Iran but a major split has occurrred because Israel no longer trusts the US over its ties to Putin-Netanyahu who represents the pro Trump right wing factions in Israel hangs to government by placating right wing coalition members but each day he plays step and fetch it to Trump in media displays more and more Israelis are getting fed up-the average Israeli knows Trump is unpredictable and in bed with Putin and therefore can not be trusted'

f-the Israeli military does not and has never liked Netanyahu-the average person who fights in the IDF is fed up, thinks Netanyahu is a showboat and is not the kind of person they want leading them-Israelis do not like bellicose, loud, confrontational dialogue that Putin, Trump and Netanyahu engage in;

g-the Israeli military could if they had the chance work with Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Qatar and the UAE in a post war Gaza run by neither the Palestinian Authority or Hamas but the practical reality is any post Gaza administration would soon be riddled with kick backs and corruptions which is the way of business in Middle East Islamic countries;

h-Palestinians live in the moment on toxic rubble with constant threats from shortages of food, water, heating, shelter. In their world no one wants them and talk they would on consent move to Africa or anywhere else is absolutely false and no Israeli in their right mind thinks they can be forced out or would so such a thing. That is an American concept not an Israeli one and when Netanyahu acted like a monkey parroting back Trump's Gaza idea it soon fell apart within Israel.

Palestinians still for the most part believe all of Israel, Jordan, Gaza and the West Bank should be a Muslim caliphate.

All essentially accurate. +1

 

[Mika-El]

All essentially accurate. +1

You are polite. I defer to all criticism. I fully admti my biases. My views are pretty much of the people in Israel who support Yesh Atid, National Unity and The Democrats. I am not a supporter of the Likud. When I voluntreered in Israel I supported the Labour Party and later the Kadima Party. I do not speak for the right of the political spectrum in Israel and openly admit that in my biases. I am a strong supporter of the Israeli military which is highly apolitical and hates politics and is far more enlightened and progressive than many thing.

i know Israelis personally, I know Palestinians personally. For me having witnessed and lived it, the issues are much more basic like fresh water, finding ways to recycle toxic sewage and waste, finding ways for people of the Middle East to work on grass roots projects they all have a need and interest in. For me the myth this is only a conflict between Muslim and Jew or Palestinian or Israeli is meaningless. When you live there you know there is as much split and conflict between Palestinians, between Muslims, between Jews, between other ethnicities and religious groups as there are problems that everyone faces about fresh water and sufficient food and electricity.

In our discussions on this board it tends to recycle a lot of false assumptions. If you see it or live it its a lot different than what comes on the internet. The compacted space of the feuding parties is hard to explain.

 

[oneworld2]

Hang on you the same can be said about you can it not?

1. Can you please not come on this board and try bluff your way through a topic you clearly do not understand and that is the Hamas-Fatah conflict. Please stop. Its pointless. Go back, educate yourself on both.

Here this is the closest anyone can say about them at this time and no they are not allied stop it.

Hamas and Fatah bicker over who has direct talks with US

Al-Hajj fears that these differences could fragment international efforts to rebuild Gaza after the massive destruction caused by the war.

www.newarab.com

2. You and I and all other armchair geniuses sitting far from the conflict zone know nothing. We write, we talk but we know sweet phack all other than we read on the internet. Admit that. Start with that. You and I do not speak for Israelis or Palestinians. You also try speak like you are an authority on Hamas Fatah relations. Come on.



3. Here is the closest and latest thing I could refer you to as an idea of what probably most Israelis think and even then I caution you not to think you know what they or Palestinians believe or want:

Israeli official says neither Israel nor Hamas will rule Gaza after war

"It will not be Hamas, it will not be Israel," Israeli Deputy Consul General Tsach Saar told Newsweek.

www.newsweek.com

This I think it is safe two say:

a-Israelis are absolutely fed up with Gaza, Lebanon and the West Bank in terms of the constant terror threat to Israelis-there no.1 desire is remove all terrorists from being able to attack them;

b-Israelis want the remaining 59 hostages returned knowing many of them are dead;

c-the Israelis want Gaza free of any armed terrorists of any kind whether it be Hamas or any other faction;

d-the Israelis want Syria and Lebanon free of any terrorists attacking Israel;

e-the Israelis do not want Iran to attack Israel with nuclear war heads or missiles-Israel knows as we speak Iran could send in a drone, a missile with low level nuclear radiation or a germ that could wipe out Israel but that would kill many Muslims too and is the only thing holding Iran back at this point-that and China who desperately need their gas and oil; China has a not so secret military treaty with Israel that has prevented an out and out war do far-Turkey supports Hamas as does Putin but Turkey also despises Putin and I

f-the Israeli military does not and has never liked Netanyahu-the average person who fights in the IDF is fed up, thinks Netanyahu is a showboat and is not the kind of person they want leading them-Israelis do not like bellicose, loud, confrontational dialogue that Putin, Trump and Netanyahu engage in;

g-the Israeli military could if they had the chance work with Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Qatar and the UAE in a post war Gaza run by neither the Palestinian Authority or Hamas but the practical reality is any post Gaza administration would soon be riddled with kick backs and corruptions which is the way of business in Middle East Islamic countries;

h-Palestinians live in the moment on toxic rubble with constant threats from shortages of food, water, heating, shelter. In their world no one wants them and talk they would on consent move to Africa or anywhere else is absolutely false and no Israeli in their right mind thinks they can be forced out or would so such a thing. That is an American concept not an Israeli one and when Netanyahu acted like a monkey parroting back Trump's Gaza idea it soon fell apart within Israel.

Palestinians still for the most part believe all of Israel, Jordan, Gaza and the West Bank should be a Muslim caliphate.

Big post with many glaring omissions imo the worst being the complete lack of the mentioning of why Israel is in the position it is in.

It is an expansionist state that sacrificed security for its citizens in exchange for territorial expansion. It illegally occupies the West Bank and Gaza and has done so for 50 plus years. It illegally enforces apartheid on the Palestinians it occupies making them second class citizens to illegal Israeli settlers ( human shields for an illegal land grab)

It illegally occupies Syrian territory along with more illegal Israeli settlements/settlers,

It illegally occupies Lebanon.

It encouraged and aided Hamas so as to undermine the then PLO and PA in classic divide and rule politics/settler colonialist tactics.

Your choice to miss out this vital data is instructive imo why don't you include this stuff in your analysis?

 

[lwf]

Hang on you the same can be said about you can it not?

I'm basing my assumption of the motive of the Gazans who are staging public protests against Hamas, (an act punishable by not only their deaths but the deaths of their families,) on the protests themselves. What are you basing your assumption that they support Hamas on?

 

[Mika-El]

I'm basing my assumption of the motive of the Gazans who are staging public protests against Hamas, (an act punishable by not only their deaths but the deaths of their families,) on the protests themselves. What are you basing your assumption that they support Hamas on?

Your comments above are fair. No I do not assume what any Palestinian thinks.

Please know this. I do note in the past polls said the majority of Palestinians support Hamas but I actually cautioned in my past posts such polls are not necessarily accurate or helpful For me to claim all Palestinians support Hamas and terrorism is no different than saying all Lebanese support Hezbollah, all Iranians support their government. all Israelis support Nertanyahu and hate Palestinians. All that does is make it easier to demonize people to kill them.

So yes I did note and do take it seriously that Palestinians dared protest.

I do know how Hamas operates. In my day when Palestinians came in from Gaza every day to work in Israel and Hamas was non terrorist, Israel worked with charities associated with it under the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood network and it was the only non corrupt alternative to Arafat and Fatah robbing Palestinians of Gaza blind and sending the aid money to Swiss and French protected bank accounts under the full protection of France's La Deuzieme Bureau (equivalent of the CIA) and the KGB that protected Arafast and h is heroin and hash hish caravans operating out of Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria and on to Marseilles, France.

I know personally former agents in the DEA, ATF and New York Police Department all prevented from doing their jobs and preventing Arafat sending his drugs to New York City from Marseilles as pay back for him keeping Russia or other terrorists from causing worse harm and most importantly getting bribes from all kinds of Western synbdicates laundering his money.

I witnessed Hamas be violently taken over by a ruthless Syrian terror cell armed by Assad and Iran and set to work killing Fatah and even worse, innocent civilian Palestinians whose crime was to work in Israel daily or work with Israeli charities to build roads, schools, Mosques, hospitals. I saw Hamas put rubber tires around the necks of such people and light them on firer or stick pieceds of wood up the ass of civilians and pull out their sphincter and collapsed tectums and leave them to bleed to death slowly in main intersections in Gaza.

I know how Fatah Hawks and other extreme networks on the West Bank would come get kids 8. 9, 10 at night to plant small bombs, throw grenades and nail bombs. I saw mothers fight openly in the streets trying to keep these children home and some of them shot or raped or beaten for doing so.

You want to ask me? Oh yes I know how terrorists keep Palestinians hostage. I also do not come on here to say my colleagues and people I know in the IDF could not have made mistakes. They did. Please you do not in a split second half to decide if that ambulance is full of terrorists or genuine health workers or try figure out who is who in the same vehicle.

I do not disagree that Palestinians are in a bad situation and are in practical reality held hostage by terrorists and are as hated if not more hated in the Arab world than they are in Israel. I know better.

Its why on this board you will see I write strongly in favour of ridding Gaza and Lebanon and Syria, etc., of terrorist cells but at the same time do not use language that calls Palestinians animals deserving to die, etc.


Your last response to me was very fair if I can say so for what ever than means to you.

 

[oneworld2]

Your comments above are fair. No I do not assume what any Palestinian thinks.

Please know this. I do note in the past polls said the majority of Palestinians support Hamas but I actually cautioned in my past posts such polls are not necessarily accurate or helpful For me to claim all Palestinians support Hamas and terrorism is no different than saying all Lebanese support Hezbollah, all Iranians support their government. all Israelis support Nertanyahu and hate Palestinians. All that does is make it easier to demonize people to kill them.

So yes I did note and do take it seriously that Palestinians dared protest.

I do know how Hamas operates. In my day when Palestinians came in from Gaza every day to work in Israel and Hamas was non terrorist, Israel worked with charities associated with it under the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood network and it was the only non corrupt alternative to Arafat and Fatah robbing Palestinians of Gaza blind and sending the aid money to Swiss and French protected bank accounts under the full protection of France's La Deuzieme Bureau (equivalent of the CIA) and the KGB that protected Arafast and h is heroin and hash hish caravans operating out of Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria and on to Marseilles, France.

I know personally former agents in the DEA, ATF and New York Police Department all prevented from doing their jobs and preventing Arafat sending his drugs to New York City from Marseilles as pay back for him keeping Russia or other terrorists from causing worse harm and most importantly getting bribes from all kinds of Western synbdicates laundering his money.

I witnessed Hamas be violently taken over by a ruthless Syrian terror cell armed by Assad and Iran and set to work killing Fatah and even worse, innocent civilian Palestinians whose crime was to work in Israel daily or work with Israeli charities to build roads, schools, Mosques, hospitals. I saw Hamas put rubber tires around the necks of such people and light them on firer or stick pieceds of wood up the ass of civilians and pull out their sphincter and collapsed tectums and leave them to bleed to death slowly in main intersections in Gaza.

I know how Fatah Hawks and other extreme networks on the West Bank would come get kids 8. 9, 10 at night to plant small bombs, throw grenades and nail bombs. I saw mothers fight openly in the streets trying to keep these children home and some of them shot or raped or beaten for doing so.

You want to ask me? Oh yes I know how terrorists keep Palestinians hostage. I also do not come on here to say my colleagues and people I know in the IDF could not have made mistakes. They did. Please you do not in a split second half to decide if that ambulance is full of terrorists or genuine health workers or try figure out who is who in the same vehicle.

I do not disagree that Palestinians are in a bad situation and are in practical reality held hostage by terrorists and are as hated if not more hated in the Arab world than they are in Israel. I know better.

Its why on this board you will see I write strongly in favour of ridding Gaza and Lebanon and Syria, etc., of terrorist cells but at the same time do not use language that calls Palestinians animals deserving to die, etc.


Your last response to me was very fair if I can say so for what ever than means to you.

^^^ Massive BS alert imo

 

[Fledermaus]

^^^ Massive BS alert imo

Opinion noted and rejected given your habit of ignoring realities not to your liking.

 

[What if...?]

When an Israeli airstrike ripped through a building in central Beit Lahia on Monday night, the farming community in the northernmost part of Gaza was already on edge over an Israeli evacuation order hours earlier.

The events shook the town’s residents and reminded them of the perils of the war between Israel and Hamas, but they also helped catalyze rare demonstrations against Hamas in Gaza. For three consecutive days, hundreds of people have marched through the town to demand both the end of the war and of Hamas’s 18-year-old rule over Gaza — public protests that have spread to a number of other towns in the battered enclave. “Hamas needs to go away,” said Ahmad al-Masri, a resident of Beit Lahia who helped call for the demonstrations. “If it doesn’t, the bloodshed, the wars and the destruction won’t stop.” While most of the demonstrations have been small, they represent the boldest challenge to Hamas’s authority by Palestinians in Gaza since the Hamas-led attack on Israel of October 2023 and the ensuing war, which has reduced cities to rubble.

​

[continues; mentions that while Hamas responded with force to prior protests, Hamas forces were 'largely nonexistent' at these latest protests; etc]​

Gazans Demand End to 18 Years of Hamas Rule

Most protests have been small, but they represent the boldest challenge to the group’s authority by Palestinians since the Hamas-led Oct. 7, 2023, attack on Israel and the ensuing war.

www.nytimes.com

Protests, obviously, are not going to make Hamas go away. But it's something. When Israel withdrew in '06-07, Hamas got a majority of vote, with Fatah second, and it was the chosen government of Gaza. There are some who have actively worked with the IDF, but it's never been enough to tear down Hamas. Perhaps if more and more of them turn on Hamas, the basis for peace might finally be in sight ('cause there's no way there's any peace with Hamas or successor organizations around).

Even if Israel's actions have sometimes been monstrous, the fact remains that Hamas *is* an evil terrorist organization happy to die in service of killing all the Jews / Destroying Israel, and whose explicit strategy is committing atrocities so that Israel responds, Palestinians die alongside Hamas fighters, and a chunk of the world reflexively reads it as oh that's just Israel murdering some civilians for fun.

Not for fun. It was always the plan.

But the protests are a good thing. They likely feel emboldened because they’re ****ed and the world is watching. So they can speak out against Hamas with less fear of reprisal.

And it makes it harder for the ADL to run cover for Israel if they lose the “Palestinians voted for Hamas!” canard.

 

[Rumpelstil]

Good! Palestinians protesting against Hamas is long overdue.

long overdue indeed!

 

[Felis Leo]

long overdue indeed!

Yes. Too bad the anti-Hamas Palestinians are still being massacred to no lesser extent than the pro-Hamas Palestinians by the Israelis.

 

[Ganondagan]

Israel’s settlements in the West Bank and planned resumption of settlement in Gaza are explicitly illegal under international law.

So are Palestinian attacks on Israel. Have you forgotten Oct 7, 2023?

 

[Tigerace117]

So are Palestinian attacks on Israel. Have you forgotten Oct 7, 2023?

October 7th, 2023 is about as relevant as January 5th, 1919.

 

[Ganondagan]

October 7th, 2023 is about as relevant as January 5th, 1919.

It's absolutely more important. It is recent rather than in the distant past.

 

[Tigerace117]

It's absolutely more important. It is recent rather than in the distant past.

Crying “but October 7th” is, like crying “but January 5th!”, no excuse for the genocidal actions of Israel or Germany respectively.

 

[Ganondagan]

Crying “but October 7th” is, like crying “but January 5th!”, no excuse for the genocidal actions of Israel or Germany respectively.

Yeah, that's too bad isn't it? As long as Palestinians continue to attack Israel the longer they will die by the thousands.

 

[Tigerace117]

Yeah, that's too bad isn't it? As long as Palestinians continue to attack Israel the longer they will die by the thousands.

Israel will indeed ensure Hamas never lacks for recruits by continuing to carry out a genocide, yes. Its leaders will have to continue to cower in fear as wanted war criminals for the foreseeable future as well.