'Palestinian' ?

[mbig]

"Palestinians" [are an] Arab people No one heard of before 1967 before Israeli governments certified this piece of Propaganda... As has been noted many times before, prior to 1948, that is before Jews had begun to call themselves Israelis, the ONLY persons known as "Palestinians" were Jews, with the Arabs much preferrring to identify themselves as part of the great Arab nation.

- David Basch


"...Palestine does not belong to the "Palestinians" and never did. They did not even call themselves Palestinians until the middle 1960s. Before that, the word "Palestinian" meant "Jewish," while the local Arabs called themselves simply "Arabs."
The creation of the PLO by Gamal Abdul Nasser in 1964 was a brilliant ploy to distort the parameters of the dispute, largely for propaganda purposes.
It was inconvenient to have a conflict between 20-odd Arab states with an area 530 times greater than Israel, a population more than 30 times greater than Israel's and enormously richer natural resources.
Far better to invent a "Palestinian" nation that would be the eternal "underdog," - a nation consisting partly of Immigrants from Syria and other Arab countries who came to benefit from the rapidly growing economy Zionist Jews created..."

westerndefense.org



"There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented!

- Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, a local Arab leader, to the Peel Commission, 1937


"There is NO language known as Palestinian.
There is NO distinct Palestinian culture.
There has NEVER been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians.
Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another Recent Invention),
Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9% of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1% of the landmass.
But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today. Greed. Pride. Envy. Covetousness. No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough....""

- Joseph Farah, Arab-American journalist

 

[Mira]

Yeah, I had a feeling that was you. At least have the guts to keep the same name and don't hide behind a new screen name.
-----------------------
'Palestinian' - Political Forum
___________________________
i.beletesri's Avatar
i.beletesri i.beletesri is offline
Analyst

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,389

Credits: 80,740

'Palestinian'

"Palestinians" [are an] Arab people no one heard of before 1967 before Israeli governments certified this piece of propaganda... As has been noted many times before, prior to 1948, that is before Jews had begun to call themselves Israelis, the ONLY persons known as "Palestinians" were Jews, with the Arabs much preferrring to identify themselves as part of the great Arab nation.

- David Basch


"...Palestine does not belong to the "Palestinians" and never did. They did not even call themselves Palestinians until the middle 1960s. Before that, the word "Palestinian" meant "Jewish," while the local Arabs called themselves simply "Arabs."
The creation of the PLO by Gamal Abdul Nasser in 1964 was a brilliant ploy to distort the parameters of the dispute, largely for propaganda purposes.
It was inconvenient to have a conflict between 20-odd Arab states with an area 530 times greater than Israel, a population more than 30 times greater than Israel's and enormously richer natural resources.
Far better to invent a "Palestinian" nation that would be the eternal "underdog," - a nation consisting partly of Immigrants from Syria and other Arab countries who came to benefit from the rapidly growing economy Zionist Jews created..."

westerndefense.org


"There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented!"

- Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, a local Arab leader, to the Peel Commission, 1937


"..There is No language known as Palestinian. There is No distinct Palestinian culture.
There has Never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians.
Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another Recent Invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1% of the landmass.
But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today. Greed. Pride. Envy. Covetousness. No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough....""

- Joseph Farah, Arab-American journalist


__________________
Ad Astra per Aspera
Last edited by i.beletesri; 05-23-2008 at 11:20 PM.
Reply With Quote

 

[Jenin]

"Palestinians" [are an] Arab people No one heard of before 1967 before Israeli governments certified this piece of Propaganda... As has been noted many times before, prior to 1948, that is before Jews had begun to call themselves Israelis, the ONLY persons known as "Palestinians" were Jews, with the Arabs much preferrring to identify themselves as part of the great Arab nation.

- David Basch


"...Palestine does not belong to the "Palestinians" and never did. They did not even call themselves Palestinians until the middle 1960s. Before that, the word "Palestinian" meant "Jewish," while the local Arabs called themselves simply "Arabs."
The creation of the PLO by Gamal Abdul Nasser in 1964 was a brilliant ploy to distort the parameters of the dispute, largely for propaganda purposes.
It was inconvenient to have a conflict between 20-odd Arab states with an area 530 times greater than Israel, a population more than 30 times greater than Israel's and enormously richer natural resources.
Far better to invent a "Palestinian" nation that would be the eternal "underdog," - a nation consisting partly of Immigrants from Syria and other Arab countries who came to benefit from the rapidly growing economy Zionist Jews created..."

westerndefense.org



"There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented!

- Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, a local Arab leader, to the Peel Commission, 1937


"There is NO language known as Palestinian.
There is NO distinct Palestinian culture.
There has NEVER been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians.
Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another Recent Invention),
Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9% of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1% of the landmass.
But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today. Greed. Pride. Envy. Covetousness. No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough....""

- Joseph Farah, Arab-American journalist

propaganda garbage

 

[Mira]

propaganda garbage

Jenin, this guy must be paid by someone to just publish propaganda on public forums. He only knows how to copy-paste from one-sided Zionist sites and to get in the way of any civil discussion.

Hope the wage is good.

 

[Agnapostate]

Impressive. Apparently, some aren't familiar with Joan Peters's lack of credibility.

 

[mbig]

On the contrary Mira.

Unlike You I am here to debate and discuss using both my own words and links as well.
The last I posted .. YOU, with cockiness no less, Challenged Marc or I to produce such literature.
I did!

http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle-east/48220-myth-1-israel-stolen-land-6.html#post1058035140

and another Link on the next all with Credible Historians or leaders (from Twain to Churchill).

Then, completely typically, you go into utter denial mode with the most goofy/typical dismissals of very credible text.
And now blame ME for what YOU asked for; Other people's text!

You are incapable of any logical discussion whatsoever; "IQ AND Honesty challenged"
Never able to answer a post, except with dismissal or change of subject.
Were you able (or do you feel a mutual responsibility) to demonstrate even/Attempt a rebuttal with even a made up fairy tale of 'teeming 19th C palestine' of your own?
Of course not! Just carp.

Above just Gossiping with fellow anti-Israel Arab poster 'Jenin'.
-
-

Followed by another Complete wash-out/10-ID-Banned PF ultra-loser, agnaprostate, trying to 'rebut' text written since Peters with yet another empty dismissal.

No substantial answer to the text posted.
You couldn't debate me there and can't here.

You're just another Boring position-predictable doctrinaire anarchist who hasn't done his homework.
-

 

[Marc39]

One of my favorite topics.

Palestinian people do not exist

What is a Palestinian?

Myths of the Middle East

 

[Wessexman]

With God's sake don't feed them.

 

[Degreez]

I never got the point of this.

There much be no such thing as Cherokee or Apache Indians, since they didn't 'claim sovereignty over a land'.

 

[Marc39]

A classic and very funny...

Terrorism101 : Larry Miller on the Situation in the Middle East

 

[bub]

One of my favorite topics.

Palestinian people do not exist

What is a Palestinian?

Myths of the Middle East

You bitch because some pretend that Jews don't have the right to be there, but you do exactly the same with Palestinians

 

[Mira]

A classic and very funny...

Terrorism101 : Larry Miller on the Situation in the Middle East

Marc, I think denying the existance of Palestinians is not an argument.
I'll go in your direction of thinking just for the sake of argument and accept that Palestine never existed as a state. That's fine with me. But you cannot deny that when Israel was created, there were people living there who had built cities, towns, villages, schools,universities, churches mosques, synagogues and temples.

Part of my family had settled in palestine after the Armenian exodus in 1915 and I gew up with stories told from visits to Palestine.

How would you feel if I said that the Armenian diaspora from all over the world can settle in Turkey, isolate the Turks in some areas, rule them and call the country Armenia again ?

The Otomans, then the British and French and then Israel with the help of the USA did what they saw fit with the whole Levant. Nobody ever asked the Arabs if they agreed to seize part of their land or not. Big money, big support and yes the vote for partition was practically bought.

How do you expect people considered to be subhuman, who have had their maps and borders imposed by powerful forces and humiliated throughout the centuries to behave ?

Of course it would have been much easier if they had simply submitted to their faith, but that's too much to wish.

I keep hearing that neighbouring Arab states never integrated the Palestinian refugees into their society and gave them citizen****. That is because both Arab states and the Palestinians refused the merging of the Palestinian people with the other nationalities which would mean the disappearance of the Palestinians.

Take a Zionist Jew in France or in New York and ask them how they identify themselves. Even when they hold the nationality of the country in which they live and they were born, they'll tell you that they're Jewish first and American or French second. They identify themselves stronger with Israel than with the US or Europe.

Israel was created after the Nazis were defeated. They wanted a home where they could live safely ? they are way more under threat than they would have been if they had stayed in Europe.

The PLO took Lebanon as a base to attack Israel , look what happened to Lebanon, how do you think I feel about that. We would have been living in peace if Israel wasn't created.

Doesn't it ever occur to you that the creation of Israel was not decided in order to protect the Jews but in order to maintain turmoil in the Levant ? In politics, there are no favours, never have been and never will. In Politics there are only INTERESTS. Think who benefitted from this mess.
I see both the Arabs and the Jews as victims of the superpowers and if you ask me, I'd like to see a solution found in order for the two people to live in peace. If they had done that in the first place, THAT would have been the biggest deception of the planners of this mess.

 

[Blunt]

Here are some coins that never existed

 

[Marc39]

Here are some coins that never existed

During the British Mandate, which is when the coins were minted, Palestine took on an identity. Are you familiar with the Mandate for Palestine and the League of Nations proclaiming Palestine as the Jewish homeland? The point is, Palestine was not a sovereign country and, except for Israel, a sovereign country has never existed even related to Palestine.

 

[Mira]

During the British Mandate, which is when the coins were minted, Palestine took on an identity. Are you familiar with the Mandate for Palestine and the League of Nations proclaiming Palestine as the Jewish homeland? The point is, Palestine was not a sovereign country and, except for Israel, a sovereign country has never existed even related to Palestine.

What about the people marc, what about the people ?
If I follow your logic, I can go and create a state in Marseille because Marseille was never a souvereign and independent state ?

 

[Marc39]

Part of my family had settled in palestine after the Armenian exodus in 1915 and I gew up with stories told from visits to Palestine.

This is not uncommon. There was a huge influx of Arabs to Palestine to take advantage of the percolating economy created by the growing Zionist society.

The Otomans, then the British and French and then Israel with the help of the USA did what they saw fit with the whole Levant.

Not true. Zionists began immigrating to Palestine of their own accord as early as the 1880s without assistance from the Ottomans, other than the Turks allowing Jews to exist. The British did everything possible to impede Jewish immigration and the creation of a Jewish homeland and state. The US was only tangentially involved. In fact, the US did not establish a formal alliance with Israel until well into Israel's existence, beginning in the mid
1960s. Neutrality laws in place at the time forbade the US from favoring Israel and, in fact, France was Israel's primary ally during that period.

Nobody ever asked the Arabs if they agreed to seize part of their land or not. Big money, big support and yes the vote for partition was practically bought.

You're falling back into the ahistorical propaganda mindset. Arab permission to immigrate to Palestine was not needed as Arabs did not own or even control Palestine. And, given Arab immigration to Palestine, those immigrants were in the same boat as Jewish immigrants. Jews purchased land, no land was "seized" The Jews were barely tolerated during Ottoman rule and any Jews seizing Arab land would have likely been beheaded. During the Mandate, the British army kept close watch and maintained records of property ownership, and, there would have been zero tolerance for Jews seizing land. The seizure, theft, stealing of Arab land, whatever term you wish to use, simply is a myth. It never happened.

How do you expect people considered to be subhuman, who have had their maps and borders imposed by powerful forces and humiliated throughout the centuries to behave ?

Every country has had its borders changed over time. Every country today used to be someone else's land. This is how countries form. Palestine, however, did not even have the status of being a country. It was just a piece of land. What land the Arabs owned was their land. What land they did not own was not their land. And, look, the Arabs still have not made their part of Palestine into a country. It's pretty clear that the Pals have never wanted Palestine to be a sovereign country they can call their own.

I keep hearing that neighbouring Arab states never integrated the Palestinian refugees into their society and gave them citizen****. That is because both Arab states and the Palestinians refused the merging of the Palestinian people with the other nationalities which would mean the disappearance of the Palestinians.

Palestinians have Syrian, Lebanese, Iraqi, Egyptian and Jordanian nationalities. Palestine is not a nation. Nor, more importantly, do Pals differ, ethnically, from other Arabs. Pals are no different than Lebanese or Syrian or Jordanian or any other Arab. There would be no conlict in any Arab country providing asylum to Pal refugees. But, such asylum is denied.

Take a Zionist Jew in France or in New York and ask them how they identify themselves. Even when they hold the nationality of the country in which they live and they were born, they'll tell you that they're Jewish first and American or French second. They identify themselves stronger with Israel than with the US or Europe.

Not true. Jews in America are American. They are not Israeli. You are in no position to claim they identify themselves more with Israel than America. Here, you fail badly. Palestinians may identify with Palestine, but, that does not negate Jews from identifying with Palestine. Jews, in fact, have a far stronger identity with Palestine than Arabs.

Israel was created after the Nazis were defeated. They wanted a home where they could live safely ? they are way more under threat than they would have been if they had stayed in Europe.

Not true. Jews have always had a presence in Palestine, to one degree or another. There has never been a time when Jews have not been in Palestine. Arabs wanted a home in Palestine because Zionists brought life to the desert and created economic opportunities. I can say Arabs should have stayed in Morocco or Algeria or the Arabian Peninsula and not gone to Palestine. Both Arabs and Jews immigrated to Palestine. Diference is, Jews did so for historical and religious reasons, Arabs, merely, to find jobs.

The PLO took Lebanon as a base to attack Israel , look what happened to Lebanon, how do you think I feel about that. We would have been living in peace if Israel wasn't created.

Blame the victim? How about looking at it a different way?: If the Arabs acted like human being,s not animals, and allowed Jews to live in peace, Israel would not have responded militarily in Lebanon. It's your own people's fault. You must take responsibility for your actions and realize actions have consequences, especially where Israel is involved. You do not want to get the IDF angry. Now, you know the consequences.

Doesn't it ever occur to you that the creation of Israel was not decided in order to protect the Jews but in order to maintain turmoil in the Levant ? In politics, there are no favours, never have been and never will. In Politics there are only INTERESTS. Think who benefitted from this mess.
I see both the Arabs and the Jews as victims of the superpowers and if you ask me, I'd like to see a solution found in order for the two people to live in peace. If they had done that in the first place, THAT would have been the biggest deception of the planners of this mess.

This is complete nonsense. 51 member states of the League of Nations unanimously agreed to the historical significance of Palestine to the Jews when they created the Palestine Mandate. Turmoil is rooted in Arab xenophobia and Muslim jihad on non-Muslims, in general, and, Jews, in particular.

 

[tlmorg02]

What about the people marc, what about the people ?
If I follow your logic, I can go and create a state in Marseille because Marseille was never a souvereign and independent state ?

I do not get the point of this thread. It would appear to me that this entire topic is rather irrelevant in the scheme of things. The fact of the matter is that there are Arabs in the land of Palestine, regardless of how you label them, and these people need to have a working government and state that will allow these people to live regular lives free from walls and checkpoints.

If Israel were to take the approach of the poster of this thread, well then there would never be peace, but total war between the Arabs and Jews. So far such has basically been the case, however people are working for peace so that the everyday lives of Jews as well as Palestinians does not consist of harassment, death, and chaos. Israel has every right to defend itself, but to murder civilians under the auspice of security, while ever expanding the settlements serves no purpose other than to undermine the prospect of peace.

 

[Marc39]

I do not get the point of this thread. It would appear to me that this entire topic is rather irrelevant in the scheme of things. The fact of the matter is that there are Arabs in the land of Palestine, regardless of how you label them, and these people need to have a working government and state that will allow these people to live regular lives free from walls and checkpoints.

Why do they need a state? Because no Arab country will provide asylum to refugees? After world War II, there were 150 million refugees. Did we create states for them? And, what of the immorality of granting statehood to a terrorist regime that oppresses its people and denies basic human rights and vows genocide against Jews? Not everyone who thinks they deserve a state gets their wish.

If Israel were to take the approach of the poster of this thread, well then there would never be peace, but total war between the Arabs and Jews. So far such has basically been the case, however people are working for peace so that the everyday lives of Jews as well as Palestinians does not consist of harassment, death, and chaos. Israel has every right to defend itself, but to murder civilians under the auspice of security, while ever expanding the settlements serves no purpose other than to undermine the prospect of peace.

Hamas just announced they never will accept Israel's right to exist. Doesn't sound very peaceful.

 

[tlmorg02]

Why do they need a state? Because no Arab country will provide asylum to refugees? After world War II, there were 150 million refugees. Did we create states for them? And, what of the immorality of granting statehood to a terrorist regime that oppresses its people and denies basic human rights and vows genocide against Jews? Not everyone who thinks they deserve a state gets their wish.



Hamas just announced they never will accept Israel's right to exist. Doesn't sound very peaceful.

I agree that groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah will never live in peace with Israel. I would never advocate Israel giving-up vital lands that would leave them more vulnerable, but I think peace can be achieved if they work with those Palestinian groups such as Fatah. If Fatah is able to broker a peace deal, then I think the majority of Palestinians would abandon Hamas and work to establish a state that would be a peaceful neighbor with Israel. The alternative would be to allow the course to continue as is and subject both Israeli and Palestinian civilians to death from the fighting.

 

[Marc39]

I agree that groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah will never live in peace with Israel. I would never advocate Israel giving-up vital lands that would leave them more vulnerable, but I think peace can be achieved if they work with those Palestinian groups such as Fatah. If Fatah is able to broker a peace deal, then I think the majority of Palestinians would abandon Hamas and work to establish a state that would be a peaceful neighbor with Israel. The alternative would be to allow the course to continue as is and subject both Israeli and Palestinian civilians to death from the fighting.

Fatah has no influence. Abbas has no street cred. He's a tool of the West. And, how sick is the Arab culture that a moderate is someone who tolerates Jews and who is not openly advocating terrorism? Let me ask you a queston: If an al Qaeda cell wanted to move next door to you and openly stated they wanted to blow your house up, would your attitude be "let's try to live in peace with them"? That's the situation faced by Israelis.

 

[tlmorg02]

Fatah has no influence. Abbas has no street cred. He's a tool of the West. And, how sick is the Arab culture that a moderate is someone who tolerates Jews and who is not openly advocating terrorism? Let me ask you a queston: If an al Qaeda cell wanted to move next door to you and openly stated they wanted to blow your house up, would your attitude be "let's try to live in peace with them"? That's the situation faced by Israelis.

I would point guns at them, and if they attacked I would kill them. Same as Israel has done. I would not, however, after killing them build on to my house as to extend into their yard and move myself closer to more Al-Qaeda. By defending myself I can make the argument of self-defense. By taking their land I look as if I am simply looking for excuses to grab more for myself.

 

[Marc39]

I would not, however, after killing them build on to my house as to extend into their yard and move myself closer to more Al-Qaeda. By defending myself I can make the argument of self-defense. By taking their land I look as if I am simply looking for excuses to grab more for myself.

Terrorists have property rights? What law provides such a right?

 

[Mira]

This is not uncommon. There was a huge influx of Arabs to Palestine to take advantage of the percolating economy created by the growing Zionist society.

I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about my Armenian family who settled in Palestine in the 30s. Noam told me the same thing that many Arabs came to settle in Palestine in
the beginning of the century but that does not exclude the fact fact that Arabs outnumbered the Jews until the mass immigration from Europe following the holocaust.

Not true. Zionists began immigrating to Palestine of their own accord as early as the 1880s without assistance from the Ottomans, other than the Turks allowing Jews to exist. The British did everything possible to impede Jewish immigration and the creation of a Jewish homeland and state. The US was only tangentially involved. In fact, the US did not establish a formal alliance with Israel until well into Israel's existence, beginning in the mid
1960s. Neutrality laws in place at the time forbade the US from favoring Israel and, in fact, France was Israel's primary ally during that period.

The US played a major role in the partition plan and according to researchers even bought some votes. The Ottomans were nominal suzerains for 4 centuries, but they exerted control through local tribal leaders, usually playing them off against one another to assure ultimate dominance. If you look carefully at the Middle East, or the Levant, Egypt is the only nation-state, the rest are tribes which did not want to be governed. The map and the borders were drawn by the victorious Europeans after the defeat of the Ottoman Empire, the borders did not resemble anything as known today.

You're falling back into the ahistorical propaganda mindset. Arab permission to immigrate to Palestine was not needed as Arabs did not own or even control Palestine. And, given Arab immigration to Palestine, those immigrants were in the same boat as Jewish immigrants. Jews purchased land, no land was "seized" The Jews were barely tolerated during Ottoman rule and any Jews seizing Arab land would have likely been beheaded. During the Mandate, the British army kept close watch and maintained records of property ownership, and, there would have been zero tolerance for Jews seizing land. The seizure, theft, stealing of Arab land, whatever term you wish to use, simply is a myth. It never happened.

You are seeing the problem only from your perspective. Other research results show a whole different picture.

Every country has had its borders changed over time. Every country today used to be someone else's land. This is how countries form. Palestine, however, did not even have the status of being a country. It was just a piece of land. What land the Arabs owned was their land. What land they did not own was not their land. And, look, the Arabs still have not made their part of Palestine into a country. It's pretty clear that the Pals have never wanted Palestine to be a sovereign country they can call their own.

As I mentioned above, beside Egypt, there were no nation-states. You can consider the rest of the Levant as one land who's borders have been designed according to interests of invading powers. That does not exclude palestine and does not justify the establishment of a Jewish state among Arab tribes.

Palestinians have Syrian, Lebanese, Iraqi, Egyptian and Jordanian nationalities. Palestine is not a nation. Nor, more importantly, do Pals differ, ethnically, from other Arabs. Pals are no different than Lebanese or Syrian or Jordanian or any other Arab. There would be no conlict in any Arab country providing asylum to Pal refugees. But, such asylum is denied.

Palestinians do not have Syrian or Lebanese nationalities. In those countries they have what we call a "pass" or a residence permit.

Not true. Jews in America are American. They are not Israeli. You are in no position to claim they identify themselves more with Israel than America. Here, you fail badly. Palestinians may identify with Palestine, but, that does not negate Jews from identifying with Palestine. Jews, in fact, have a far stronger identity with Palestine than Arabs.

I am not inventing anything, do go out on 5th avenue and ask Orthodox Jews how they feel. I have done that and done it in France also. The question has been asked as a vox pop and the allegiance of Zionist Jews turned out to be stronger toward Israel than the country of their birth, not now, but has always been. You know the saying "next year in Jerusalem". When Jean Marie Le Pen won the first round on elections in 2002, a team of French TV interviewed the Jews of the Marais. their reply was "we're not concerned with French politics, we are Jewish and our home is Israel"

Not true. Jews have always had a presence in Palestine, to one degree or another. There has never been a time when Jews have not been in Palestine. Arabs wanted a home in Palestine because Zionists brought life to the desert and created economic opportunities. I can say Arabs should have stayed in Morocco or Algeria or the Arabian Peninsula and not gone to Palestine. Both Arabs and Jews immigrated to Palestine. Diference is, Jews did so for historical and religious reasons, Arabs, merely, to find jobs.

But they still outnumbered the Jews by a very large majority.

Blame the victim? How about looking at it a different way?: If the Arabs acted like human being,s not animals, and allowed Jews to live in peace, Israel would not have responded militarily in Lebanon. It's your own people's fault. You must take responsibility for your actions and realize actions have consequences, especially where Israel is involved. You do not want to get the IDF angry. Now, you know the consequences.

So what you're saying is that the Arabs should have just shut up and submitted to their faith. I said so myself, it would have saved lots of lives, but unfortunately things never happen that way. By creating Israel, the West knew exactly how the Arabs would react. Maintaining the turmoil in the region was to their benefit. You are also saying that it is the law of the jungle that applies here. Big eats small.
Do the same in any country under the sun and there will be resistance.

This is complete nonsense. 51 member states of the League of Nations unanimously agreed to the historical significance of Palestine to the Jews when they created the Palestine Mandate. Turmoil is rooted in Arab xenophobia and Muslim jihad on non-Muslims, in general, and, Jews, in particular.

Muslim fundamentalism appeared in the Levant only after the Iranian revolution in 1979. Before that the palestinian movements were sectarian, some of the leaders and the fighters were Christian.

Hamas was encouraged by Israel to destabelise the PLO, the Hizbollah appeared only after the invasion of Lebanon by Israel in 1982.

As to the vote for partition this is what happened:
In short it says that the Jewish delegation was about to lose the vote but they took advantage of the postponing of the session for 2 days beacause of American thanksgiving holiday.

"The Jewish delegation used the time to convince undecided nations. Some of their last-minute methods were unorthodox. Harvey Firestone, the wealthy owner of a tyre manufacturing company, with huge plantations in Liberia, was threatened by Robert Nathan, an influential American, that Firestone products would be boycotted in the US unless he pressurized Liberia to vote for partition. President Carlos Rojass of the Philippines-who was awaiting confirmation of a large US Congressional credit- was contacted by 26 senators and two Supreme Court judges urging him to reverse the vote of his UN delegation. Such tactics didn't always work. Efforts to reverse the negative vote of Ethiopia only succeeded in securing its abstention. But it took no more than a promise of a five-million-dollar loan to alter Haiti's vote.

On 29 November, the changes were apparent ...... " etc.. etc...

 

[tlmorg02]

Terrorists have property rights? What law provides such a right?

Your premise was that Al-Qaeda moved next door to me, not that they moved onto my land.

 

[Mira]

You know marc, I'm trying to find an objective chronology to the history of the region. Thus far the only claim that the Jews have over this land is Biblical. As an atheist, I have trouble adhering to that notion.

The whole area has been the scene of a million battles and invasions. With your logic, you can take any past invader and accept them to claim the land to be their own.