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Pagans are Un-American

I think paganism is one of the purest forms of religion we have nowadays. Organised religion has destroyed and ripped apart the teachings of Jesus, Mohammed and Abraham. Paganism is not my cup of tea, neither is any other religion for that matter. But I can't help but have respect and admiration for people to break away from the norm and worship the trees and earth. In fact, our real god or godess is our Planet, she is mother to us all, gives life to us all. Hmmm maybe I should turn pagan lol.
 
I think paganism is one of the purest forms of religion we have nowadays. Organised religion has destroyed and ripped apart the teachings of Jesus, Mohammed and Abraham. Paganism is not my cup of tea, neither is any other religion for that matter. But I can't help but have respect and admiration for people to break away from the norm and worship the trees and earth. In fact, our real god or godess is our Planet, she is mother to us all, gives life to us all. Hmmm maybe I should turn pagan lol.

I agree with you about organized religion being corrupt; I also agree that Paganism would be a better, especially if the nature worship took the form of, you know... taking action to halt the destruction of the environment, and did not include personifying nature or attributing any humanoid or supernatural characteristics to either nature or the planet.
But then, I guess we'd be environmental activists, rather than Pagans.

I guess I'm a pragmatist; I've never believed in the supernatural, and i've never been able to understand why so many people can't see religion for what it is: a human social construct.
That's what all religions are, in my opinion, including Paganism.
But at least Pagans, if they truly respected nature, might be able to do some good; it seems to me that the three Mosaic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam), have lost the capacity to do anything positive for humankind whatsoever.
 
it seems to me that the three Mosaic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam), have lost the capacity to do anything positive for humankind whatsoever.
Okay, im not a big advocate of forcing religion upon people and such, and I am far from a fundamentalist, BUT....

What you have stated here is not true. Yes these religions cause a bunch of war, conflict, death, persecution, and unfair treatment of others based upon unfair judgements....... BUT...

You have completely overlooked the fact that, at least for Christianity and Judaism (I don't know much about Islam), giving to the needy and helping the poor are VERY large motivators in the groups. You can use small examples here and there of corruption in the charity (tzedakah) funds, etc.
But the fact remainds that for both religions it is a major obligation to help the needy. In Judaism it is a mitzvot to give to others, even if you yourself are in need of assistance.
 
I agree with you about organized religion being corrupt; I also agree that Paganism would be a better, especially if the nature worship took the form of, you know... taking action to halt the destruction of the environment, and did not include personifying nature or attributing any humanoid or supernatural characteristics to either nature or the planet.
But then, I guess we'd be environmental activists, rather than Pagans.

I guess I'm a pragmatist; I've never believed in the supernatural, and i've never been able to understand why so many people can't see religion for what it is: a human social construct.
That's what all religions are, in my opinion, including Paganism.
But at least Pagans, if they truly respected nature, might be able to do some good; it seems to me that the three Mosaic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam), have lost the capacity to do anything positive for humankind whatsoever.

Hmm many Christains do godo work though, I can say about Islam or Judaism because I have no experience with these religions. I have no problem with Christainity when it tries to help people and actually try to follow Jesus Christ (which is what REAL christains should be - pacifists). But then again their is a dark side to Christainity that Jesus never taught. Bigotry, intolerance, televangalism and spreading hate for those who are different and some Christains can "look down" on people. But there is good christains out there, I'm just afraid they are dying out.

BTW 1069 i seen your pic and you look beautiful lol. Right enough flirting.
 
BTW 1069 i seen your pic and you look beautiful lol. Right enough flirting.

Aw, thanks.
I took that picture myself, immediately after chopping off nearly all my hair last summer. It's growing back now... long enough for a ponytail, but barely.
But thank you for the sweet compliment.
 
About what I expected. All of you made a spectacle of yourselves by turning this into an attack the 'KID'--without answering the question as to what exactly have 'pagans' contributed to our modern day American culture? Please try again, but remember--three strikes and you're out for good!

FARRRRRRRRRRRRT
 
As the resident Pagan here...allow me to say. I am in no way offended by the Kids opinions, as they are...well...from him...heh.
 
he still hasn't replied to me...
 
well, I am the lost one.
 
As the resident Pagan here...allow me to say. I am in no way offended by the Kids opinions, as they are...well...from him...heh.

I actually thought it was one of his more entertaining (read:laughable) attempts...
And that should be 'resident Pagan practioner'-some of us just do what comes natural;)
 
A pagan’s sole claim to fame is his refusal to accept and nurture the American Christian culture, as it has been bequeathed to us by our Christian forefathers. Pagan ideologues are best known for devil worship, and for pacifying the less fortunate and more troubled peoples worldwide--namely our enemies.

Pagans, atheists, infidels et al are usually found in the Democrat/Liberal halls of our Congress, where their political platform of appeasement, narcissism, and godless acts find a home, as seen in their abortion on demand (1million murders per year), the right for a man/boy love union (NAMBLA), and their unending quest to sodomize the marriage ritual, as seen and now mandated in the state of Massachusetts.

Most if not all of our American culture emanated from the contributions of the Catholic Church during the Middle Ages. The Catholic Church did not merely contribute to Western civilization--the Church ‘built’ that civilization. There was hardly a human enterprise of the early Middle Ages to which the monasteries did not contribute. The Scientific Revolution took root in a Western Europe whose theological and philosophical foundations, Catholic at their very core, proved fertile soil for the development of the Scientific enterprise. The mature idea of international law emerged from the late Scholastics, as did concepts central to the emergence of economics as a distinct discipline. These latter two contributions occurred under the auspices of the Church.

All these areas: economic thought, international law, science, university life, charity, religious ideas, art, morality--these are the very foundations of a civilization, and in the West every single one of them emerged from the heart of the Catholic Church.

So you can clearly see that America owes it’s Christian heritage and ensuing modern day culture to the Catholic Church and its religion.

My question to you pagans: Can you list all of the traits/ideals/customs that would clearly show to the majority of Christian America that you have contributed to our vibrant American culture? Feel free to cheat a little by wandering back to the Dark Ages in which to seek answers or suggestions to that dilemma.

Clearly my contribution to America has been my willingness and assiduous plan to unite all Americans under one Christian flag. I don’t take praise too easily, so please, refrain from making a spectacle of yourself.

Hadn't seen you around much, lately, kid. Guess this post shows that you needed some attention, huh? I mean, other than that, there's not much of a point in the post. As usual, you fail to define the terms you use, you overgeneralize and make outrageous innuendo or direct statements with no substantiation, and generally misrepresent positions you oppose.

Other than all that, great post.
 
Wouldn't the under the table jobs he claims to perform while receiving welfare or whatever bullshit he gets be un-american?
 
Wouldn't the under the table jobs he claims to perform while receiving welfare or whatever bullshit he gets be un-american?

ABSOLUTELY. This is a key point in exposing ptsdkid for the hypocrite that he is. It is un-American to be getting paid for work without paying taxes, and at the same time, collecting Social Security, and hiding this fact. I believe that behavior like this is similar to illegal immigrant behavior that the kid is so against, and liberal behavior of feeding off the government. Sounds like a ptsdkid definition of un-American to me.
 
ABSOLUTELY. This is a key point in exposing ptsdkid for the hypocrite that he is. It is un-American to be getting paid for work without paying taxes, and at the same time, collecting Social Security, and hiding this fact. I believe that behavior like this is similar to illegal immigrant behavior that the kid is so against, and liberal behavior of feeding off the government. Sounds like a ptsdkid definition of un-American to me.

People hardly ever notice their own flaws. It's a human decease. Very contagious I'll have you know. As far as I'm concerned he's a hysteric with little to back up his bs and even less to keep it afloat.
 
So you can clearly see that America owes it’s Christian heritage and ensuing modern day culture to the Catholic Church and its religion.

Ha! Obviously you forget that England severed itself from the Catholic Church under Elizabeth I and created the Church Of England which wasn't very Catholic at all. The founding fathers came to the colonies partly to escape the Church of England and most of them were deists or unitarianists.

My question to you pagans: Can you list all of the traits/ideals/customs that would clearly show to the majority of Christian America that you have contributed to our vibrant American culture? Feel free to cheat a little by wandering back to the Dark Ages in which to seek answers or suggestions to that dilemma.

LOL. I'm certainly not pagan but I'm going to take the liberty of enlightening you:

1. Democracy - The very first recorded Democracy was in the PAGAN city-state of Athens. The very first recorded Republic was in PAGAN Rome. The Christian Church always loathed democracy and favored monarchy.

2. You have Pagans to thank for most of your Christian holidays. All of the major Christian holidays were proclaimed and set on dates to overlap Pagan holidays to make it easier for the citizens of the Roman Empire to make the transition from Paganism to Christianity.

3. Take note of the architecture in Washington D.C. All of the government buildings were modeled after Pagan temples and all of them are adorned with Pagan symbols and sculptures of Pagan God's and Goddesses.

4. The invention of the theatre and theatrical performances.

Need I go on? Pagans built the very foundations of the modern world.
 
Can I use all three of my strikes at once?

***Sorry for not getting back in a more timely manner. From what I've read here from you, you just struck out. You took your eye off the ball.

To answer your question, what is American culture? Is American culture the "American dream", that everyone has a chance to be wealthy? Must not be because that goes against Christianity. Is American culture contraceptives and basic sexual freedom? Nope - that goes against Jesus, must not be. Is American culture football on Sundays? Well the Pope came out against that one so - nope!

***This is where dust got in your eye. The question isn't what is American culture. The question is what have pagans and paganism contributed to our vibrant American culture? I already listed a few of the cultural contributions originating from the Catholic Church. If you want to change the question to suit your needs...then please start another thread with a differing topic.

I'm reaching to see how American culture is really related in any important way to Christianity. As much as you wish it wasn't, America IS a secular nation.

***That ridiculous statement has been answered and corrected in many other threads not pertaining to this particular one.

doughgirl, this country was Christian at one point, but through education and the rule of the people as well as modernization, it is not a Christian nation anymore, so arguing such is quite irrelevant.

***Again, not to be sidetracked, but 96% of Americans are either Christian or affiliated with Christianity in one way or another. Dem the facts, sir.
 
***Again, not to be sidetracked, but 96% of Americans are either Christian or affiliated with Christianity in one way or another. Democrat the facts, sir.

Yeah buddy, the number's much closer to about 75% or so depending on which source you use. About 50% Protestant & 25% Catholic (roughly). Neocon the facts, sir.

The question is what have pagans and paganism contributed to our vibrant American culture?

Who cares? What has the NFL contributed to our vibrant culture? What about iPods? Megachurches? Anything, really - and why does it matter?

America's a melting pot. The only un-American ones are those who refuse to allow the multiculturalism of our great country - such as yourself. You should be ashamed.

[/attempt to rationally debate]
 
***Again, not to be sidetracked, but 96% of Americans are either Christian or affiliated with Christianity in one way or another. Democrat the facts, sir.

Oh, 96% seems a little high; if that's from a survey, I'm not sure it's accurate.
There are plenty of Jews, Muslims, agnostics, atheists and Mormons around.
Surely non-Christians make up more than 4% of the US population.
 
Ha! Obviously you forget that England severed itself from the Catholic Church under Elizabeth I and created the Church Of England which wasn't very Catholic at all. The founding fathers came to the colonies partly to escape the Church of England and most of them were deists or unitarianists.



LOL. I'm certainly not pagan but I'm going to take the liberty of enlightening you:

1. Democracy - The very first recorded Democracy was in the PAGAN city-state of Athens. The very first recorded Republic was in PAGAN Rome. The Christian Church always loathed democracy and favored monarchy.

2. You have Pagans to thank for most of your Christian holidays. All of the major Christian holidays were proclaimed and set on dates to overlap Pagan holidays to make it easier for the citizens of the Roman Empire to make the transition from Paganism to Christianity.

3. Take note of the architecture in Washington D.C. All of the government buildings were modeled after Pagan temples and all of them are adorned with Pagan symbols and sculptures of Pagan God's and Goddesses.

4. The invention of the theatre and theatrical performances.

Need I go on? Pagans built the very foundations of the modern world.

Answer him, PTSDkid
 
Oh, 96% seems a little high; if that's from a survey, I'm not sure it's accurate.
There are plenty of Jews, Muslims, agnostics, atheists and Mormons around.
Surely non-Christians make up more than 4% of the US population.

That's because the kid pulls his 'facts' out of his arse.
The number of people who say they are christian totals 76% in this country. This includes Catholics, Protestants, Baptists...all of'em.
 
Ha! Obviously you forget that England severed itself from the Catholic Church under Elizabeth I and created the Church Of England which wasn't very Catholic at all. The founding fathers came to the colonies partly to escape the Church of England and most of them were deists or unitarianists.

***My mention of the Catholic Church as setting the foundation for the West's economic thought, international law, science, university life, charity, religious ideas, art, and morality were but a few of the Church's cultural gifts to mankind, i.e. to the West. Keep in mind that my main debatable issue here was in comparing Christianity's gift of culture to that of anything of a pagan nature. The church of England and other religious factions like the Presbyterians and Protestants had also contributed to the West's culture; and keep in mind these were all demoninations of the Christian religion. So rather than bore us with minutiae details of deists etc, try listing a formative detail of the cultural attributes originating from the pagan religion as we would see today in the American culture. Just keep thinking...pagan culture...pagan culture, and you might do just fine; and in doing so we may be able to get back to the original debate.



LOL. I'm certainly not pagan but I'm going to take the liberty of enlightening you:

1. Democracy - The very first recorded Democracy was in the PAGAN city-state of Athens. The very first recorded Republic was in PAGAN Rome. The Christian Church always loathed democracy and favored monarchy.

***Alright, so in keeping with my theme here of pagan contributions to the American culture--you're saying that our forefathers fought for Democracy using pagan Athens as their guide to help democratize America, and not using the strict bullying actions and laws of King George as reason to seek democracy? Looks like a stretch to me.

2. You have Pagans to thank for most of your Christian holidays. All of the major Christian holidays were proclaimed and set on dates to overlap Pagan holidays to make it easier for the citizens of the Roman Empire to make the transition from Paganism to Christianity.

***I'm just getting over a bellyache from laughing so much at that statement. Surely you're joking here. I never knew there was such a thing as a 'Pagan Holiday". Please enlighten me/us as to the names of these holidays, the significance of each, and their contribution to American culture, if any. LOL!

3. Take note of the architecture in Washington D.C. All of the government buildings were modeled after Pagan temples and all of them are adorned with Pagan symbols and sculptures of Pagan God's and Goddesses.

***Please tell me/us what exactly is a pagan temple. If the D.C. buildings were made with pagan architecture in mind, then that would probably make sense seeing how I despise an over burdening and over taxing behemoth government.

4. The invention of the theatre and theatrical performances.

***I thought the invention of theatre and their performances came from Rome, and isn't Rome where the Catholic Church originates from?

Need I go on? Pagans built the very foundations of the modern world.

***Its up to you if you want to continue, but if you do then perhaps you could put up at least one pagan contribution.
 
Pagan contributions:
The 'Christmas' tree
The Easter Bunny and colored eggs
The Yule log
Tobacco
 
A pagan’s sole claim to fame is his refusal to accept and nurture the American Christian culture, as it has been bequeathed to us by our Christian forefathers. Pagan ideologues are best known for devil worship, and for pacifying the less fortunate and more troubled peoples worldwide--namely our enemies.

Pagans, atheists, infidels et al are usually found in the Democrat/Liberal halls of our Congress, where their political platform of appeasement, narcissism, and godless acts find a home, as seen in their abortion on demand (1million murders per year), the right for a man/boy love union (NAMBLA), and their unending quest to sodomize the marriage ritual, as seen and now mandated in the state of Massachusetts.

Most if not all of our American culture emanated from the contributions of the Catholic Church during the Middle Ages. The Catholic Church did not merely contribute to Western civilization--the Church ‘built’ that civilization. There was hardly a human enterprise of the early Middle Ages to which the monasteries did not contribute. The Scientific Revolution took root in a Western Europe whose theological and philosophical foundations, Catholic at their very core, proved fertile soil for the development of the Scientific enterprise. The mature idea of international law emerged from the late Scholastics, as did concepts central to the emergence of economics as a distinct discipline. These latter two contributions occurred under the auspices of the Church.

All these areas: economic thought, international law, science, university life, charity, religious ideas, art, morality--these are the very foundations of a civilization, and in the West every single one of them emerged from the heart of the Catholic Church.

So you can clearly see that America owes it’s Christian heritage and ensuing modern day culture to the Catholic Church and its religion.

My question to you pagans: Can you list all of the traits/ideals/customs that would clearly show to the majority of Christian America that you have contributed to our vibrant American culture? Feel free to cheat a little by wandering back to the Dark Ages in which to seek answers or suggestions to that dilemma.

Clearly my contribution to America has been my willingness and assiduous plan to unite all Americans under one Christian flag. I don’t take praise too easily, so please, refrain from making a spectacle of yourself.
I am a very strong practicing Christian, and there are many christians who I would consider to be unAmerican. Why? they want to do away with bill of rights form a fake christian government.

I wonder if you are a christian or fake christian? Sorry I know this is a pretty private question, considering your freedom of religion. But don't Pagans have the right to freedom of religion?? All it takes to be American is being born here or moving here. No where is it stated in the Constitution that being pagan is unAmerican. I consider your attitude to be UnAmerican.
 
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