The mantra coming from the intelligencia is that we don't spend enough on education and that increased education will help boost the economy.
The numbers say otherwise. Currently we have too many college graduates and people with graduate degrees for the number of jobs inside and outside of academia. The availability of excess talent doesn't seem to be helping the economy. Spending more money on education helps teachers unions and helps colleges and universities with their already bloated budgets, but it does nothing for society at large once a saturation point is reached.
The current policies of this administration -- excessive onerous and costly regulations on business and an increase in the number and magnitude of taxes -- is sure to make the excess of educated young people in the job market even worse by suppressing business growth.
The Ph.D Bust: America's Awful Market for Young Scientists—in 7 Charts - Jordan Weissmann - The Atlantic
i'd be happy to live in a country where everyone had gone through the intellectual rigor that it takes to get a PhD. in hindsight, i probably should have gotten one after my masters.
once again, education is an investment in our national intellectual resource, not just job training. we need that resource to be as large and diverse as possible, as we will have to tackle novel new national problems.
i'd be happy to live in a country where everyone had gone through the intellectual rigor that it takes to get a PhD. in hindsight, i probably should have gotten one after my masters.
once again, education is an investment in our national intellectual resource, not just job training. we need that resource to be as large and diverse as possible, as we will have to tackle novel new national problems.
OK, and...?Currently we have too many college graduates and people with graduate degrees for the number of jobs inside and outside of academia.
So, I guess you didn't notice this pesky recession thing, huh?The availability of excess talent doesn't seem to be helping the economy.
Please.The current policies of this administration -- excessive onerous and costly regulations on business and an increase in the number and magnitude of taxes -- is sure to make the excess of educated young people in the job market even worse by suppressing business growth.
i'd be happy to live in a country where everyone had gone through the intellectual rigor that it takes to get a PhD. in hindsight, i probably should have gotten one after my masters.
once again, education is an investment in our national intellectual resource, not just job training. we need that resource to be as large and diverse as possible, as we will have to tackle novel new national problems.
OK, and...?
If you're talking about Ph.D's, you're discussing a very small slice of education. There are around 60,000 total PhD graduates per year, and 3.4 million high school graduates per year. You're talking about less than 1% of all students.
So, I guess you didn't notice this pesky recession thing, huh?
Jobs increasingly require more education than a high school diploma, and during the recession college graduates have a significantly lower unemployment rate than those with only a high school degree. College graduates tend to have unemployment rates in the 4% range, it's closer to 24% for high school graduates.
I do think a good argument can be made for vocational-type schools, which will provide more practical skills. But pointing out a surplus of PhD's as though it's indicative of a massive failure of the educational system is unpersuasive.
The US is one of the most business-friendly nations in the world (Ease of doing business index (1=most business-friendly regulations) | Data | Table). The US is also one of the largest and most affluent unified markets in the world; working in Europe, for example, still involves a thicket of potentially debilitating regulations (such as France's labor laws) or intractable corruption (China).
The stimulus included significant tax breaks, and very few taxes were introduced or increased during his first term (one on tobacco, one on tanning salons, one on medical equipment manufacturers). The effective corporate tax rate is lower than many other nations. Corporate profits are through the roof, and companies are hoarding cash rather than hiring staff.
Obama's preferred policies would also put a heck of a lot of engineers to work, fixing deteriorating infrastructure. Considering that investors are willing to loan the US Treasury money by the truckload despite near-zero interest rates, it's not Obama's policies that are holding back hiring.
The mantra coming from the intelligencia is that we don't spend enough on education and that increased education will help boost the economy.
The numbers say otherwise. Currently we have too many college graduates and people with graduate degrees for the number of jobs inside and outside of academia. The availability of excess talent doesn't seem to be helping the economy. Spending more money on education helps teachers unions and helps colleges and universities with their already bloated budgets, but it does nothing for society at large once a saturation point is reached.
The current policies of this administration -- excessive onerous and costly regulations on business and an increase in the number and magnitude of taxes -- is sure to make the excess of educated young people in the job market even worse by suppressing business growth.
The Ph.D Bust: America's Awful Market for Young Scientists—in 7 Charts - Jordan Weissmann - The Atlantic
I agree with that general statement. But even in a utopian laissez-faire economy, you'll have a mismatch between the number of people who want to do a job, who are trained for the job, and demand for the job. Human skills are not that fluid.Nevertheless, it's proof of the principle that an excess of talent doesn't help the economy.
The PhD example does not prove this conclusion, because "education" means much more than PhD's.The argument is that putting more money into education will improve the economy. This doesn't appear to be the case.
That is RECENT college graduates only. The rate for ALL college graduates is closer to 4%.No, unemployment for college graduates is at 9.4% and 19% of them can only get work part time.
It's a very small investment, especially compared to spending with bad multiplier effects like military.It's not a failure of the educational system, it's malinvestment by the government.
There's no "fallacy" at all.I would hope that you would realize the fallacy of defending the regulatory system in the US by comparing it to Europe.
Most of those taxes haven't even kicked in yet. Saying that a tax which doesn't even start in 2014 affected the economy in 2009 is just funny.No, Obama has added at least 21 new or higher taxes.
No, it's just a recession. It's more severe than most, but this is all very standard behavior.Companies hoarding cash, increasing productivity without hiring, and taking their profits overseas as a way to avoid corporate taxes are signs of a sick, sick economy and a regulatory system that is dysfunctional.
So your proof of this is one poll in one year, run by Public Opinion Strategies -- a Republican polling firm? Nice.Sorry, but if Obama really wants to see higher employment then he's going about it in a strange fashion. For everything he does that is supposedly to boost the economy he does three things that hold it back.
That is RECENT college graduates only. The rate for ALL college graduates is closer to 4%.
Of course, it will be the recent graduates that suffer from the excess.
The challenges for recent grads is a temporary condition that's a result of the recession, and it's not the first time in recent history that this has happened.
And again the point was that having an excess of graduates isn't helping the economy. It's like saying that having an excess of airplane tires available will stimulate the growth of the aerospace industry so we should put more money into tire makers.
It's a very small investment, especially compared to spending with bad multiplier effects like military.
Small? Outstanding student loans are now at over a $trillion.
There's no "fallacy" at all.
The US isn't like Europe, and we don't want to be like Europe. This ought to be plain if one is paying attention. Not even Europe can afford to be like Europe.
Most of those taxes haven't even kicked in yet. Saying that a tax which doesn't even start in 2014 affected the economy in 2009 is just funny.
Of course these taxes are having an effect now. Businesses obviously are going to be planning ahead, and what they do now is very much affected by those taxes. The growth of the 49er businesses (firms that don't want to take the hit for going 50 or over employees) has already been documented as have businesses that share 20 hour employees with other businesses (half of the time at each place for a full 40 hour week for each employee and the two businesses don't have to claim any full time employees.)
Review & Outlook: ObamaCare and the '29ers' - WSJ.com
I'm out of time. Perhaps I can get back to this later.
I'm so tired of the modern trend of anti-intellectualism coming from certain segments of American society. When people say more money should be put into education, I'm pretty sure most people are referring to the obscene level of student loan debt that post-grads have, and not putting more money into creating more demand. Education should not be so costly to the average person.
The purpose of PhD level education is not to make society money but to do research. Higher education is for inquiry and uncovering new knowledge. That's what academia has been about since the dawn of time, not careers. It's the job of policy makers and business to implement new applications of knowledge. Grads and post-grads largely do research. Our economy is ailing due to stagnation caused by a business sector that is obsessed with absorbing all the money our civilization has while innovating as little as possible.
Our country already has all the solutions to its major problems in the form of experts lying in wait. It's the plutocrats that won't take suggestion from the educated masses. Business and government are clinging to a stagnant fiduciary model. The benefits of an educated population aren't strictly about dollars and cents, but keeping an electorate that isn't stupid and ignorant.
Unfortunately, it has become a trend for the stupid and ignorant to attack intellectuals as part of our recent race to the bottom. This is no accident. With unions being destroyed, wages being slashed, and worker rights gradually diminishing as we become a service based economy, big business is less interested in an educated work force. That's what happens when we lower our standards to compete with China instead of just being a leader in a new kind of economy.
What's it any of you guys business if someone takes the time and makes the effort and pays for a PhD?
Hey, I play basketball twice a week, maybe I should quit because thats not going to get me a job as a professional basketball player. And all of those sidewalks that the government builds, maybe we should stop building those because none of the people who walk on those sidewalks are ever going to get a job as a sidewalk walker.
If I was to say that we had too many rich people, many conservatives would jump all down my throat, telling me that it's none of my business how much money someone else makes and accusing me of being jealous. If I was to suggest that we should outlaw junk food, I would be promptly told how it isn't the business of government to be everyone's momma.
Now if our government was pushing people to get these apparently useless PhDs, I could understand the complaint, but I really am unaware of anything like that happening.
I really don't understand why anyone would want to criticize someone for getting a PhD, regardless of the employment outlook. Education is a personal decision, and the reasons for getting a PhD are probably nearly as numerous and the number of people who get one.
The mantra coming from the intelligencia is that we don't spend enough on education and that increased education will help boost the economy.
The numbers say otherwise. Currently we have too many college graduates and people with graduate degrees for the number of jobs inside and outside of academia. The availability of excess talent doesn't seem to be helping the economy. Spending more money on education helps teachers unions and helps colleges and universities with their already bloated budgets, but it does nothing for society at large once a saturation point is reached.
The current policies of this administration -- excessive onerous and costly regulations on business and an increase in the number and magnitude of taxes -- is sure to make the excess of educated young people in the job market even worse by suppressing business growth.
The Ph.D Bust: America's Awful Market for Young Scientists—in 7 Charts - Jordan Weissmann - The Atlantic
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