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Our Obamacare Nightmare

Greenbeard said:
Of course I know that local conditions--particularly since health insurance and health care delivery are inherently local--dominate. That was my point. I's why "Allow insurance companies to sell across state lines and that lets the free markets work" is a soundbite, not a well thought-out policy position.
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actually it is. it is true market competition. While you have plan A in NY that would cost 7k a year you could find the same exact plan in ND or NM that costs 4k a year.
where do you think people will go? they won't go to NY to get their insurance plans.

And it's why in all the states that allow across-state-lines purchasing (Georgia, Wyoming, Maine) and in all that states that have actively explored it
(Rhode Island, Washington and Kentucky), no out-of-state insurers ever indicated any actual interest in selling in their markets. Much to the surprise of the conservatives in those states who pushed through those proposals.
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Then you don't understand how the system works because it doesn't work that way. if you currently live in NY or even GA you can't go to another state and buy insurance.
you have to buy insurance in the state that you live in. allowing people to shop outside the state for better insurance policies would actually lower costs.
obamacare has increased premiums.

Allowing insurers to sell across state lines is not a panacea.
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No one said it was but it is a way to actually reduce costs and make a true competitive market.
 
Greenbeard said:
Of course I know that local conditions--particularly since health insurance and health care delivery are inherently local--dominate. That was my point. I's why "Allow insurance companies to sell across state lines and that lets the free markets work" is a soundbite, not a well thought-out policy position.

And it's why in all the states that allow across-state-lines purchasing (Georgia, Wyoming, Maine) and in all that states that have actively explored it
(Rhode Island, Washington and Kentucky), no out-of-state insurers ever indicated any actual interest in selling in their markets. Much to the surprise of the conservatives in those states who pushed through those proposals.

Allowing insurers to sell across state lines is not a panacea.
Click to expand...

Restricting insurance companies or any other business not be able to enter any state to do business (across state lines) is ridiculous. Entering any market should be up to the business to decide to enter or not. It's called free markets.
 
ludin said:
actually it is. it is true market competition. While you have plan A in NY that would cost 7k a year you could find the same exact plan in ND or NM that costs 4k a year.
where do you think people will go? they won't go to NY to get their insurance plans.



Then you don't understand how the system works because it doesn't work that way. if you currently live in NY or even GA you can't go to another state and buy insurance.
you have to buy insurance in the state that you live in. allowing people to shop outside the state for better insurance policies would actually lower costs.
obamacare has increased premiums.



No one said it was but it is a way to actually reduce costs and make a true competitive market.
Click to expand...

You are partly correct and partly incorrect.

It is possible to buy insurance from an out-of-state company...IF your state is part of an "inter-state compact". That is what Greenbeard was talking about. You can find out more about it here: Out-of-state Health Insurance - Allowing the Purchase (State Implementation Report)

This inter-state compact deal was Obamacare's way of tossing a bone to conservatives who want open and free markets while allowing states to continue their excessive regulation of the health insurance industry. (and people wonder why insurance costs so much. :roll:) It still doesn't allow for a true, competitive, free market.
 
ludin said:
actually it is. it is true market competition. While you have plan A in NY that would cost 7k a year you could find the same exact plan in ND or NM that costs 4k a year.
where do you think people will go? they won't go to NY to get their insurance plans.
Click to expand...

I don't think it would work quite like that. The reason that the policy being sold in NY is more expensive has to be known. One of the causes, more expsnsive doctors, would make it very difficult to sell that $4k plan and have it cover the more expensive doctors in NY.
 
buck said:
I don't think it would work quite like that. The reason that the policy being sold in NY is more expensive has to be known. One of the causes, more expsnsive doctors, would make it very difficult to sell that $4k plan and have it cover the more expensive doctors in NY.
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Ny also has a lot of insurance regulations in place.
 
Lakryte said:
My family of 6 makes just under $100k per year. Before Obamacare we had insurance that was a tad expensive, but it gave us the coverage we needed. At the start of this year, the company called us and informed us our premiums were going to double as a result of requirements of Obamacare. There was absolutely no way we could afford this, so we had to cancel our insurance. For a short time the entire family was uninsured as we struggled to use to horrendous Obamacare exchange website, which took days. Finally we found a plan that was affordable, albeit more expensive than our plan prior to Obamacare.

It was a hassle, but at least we were insured. But the hell didn't stop there. Our doctor--who we have had for over 20 years--is not covered by the new Obamacare insurance. We are now without our family doctor, who has known this family for 2 decades. We are still looking for another doctor who will take our new insurance.

To make matters worse, our allergy pills now have a lower deductible and are twice as expensive as they were before this Obamacare disaster. To add insult to injury, one of our birthdates was mixed up and one member of my family was said to not even exist--resulting in him failing to get his 2nd HPV vaccination. :2mad: This has been hell.




Obama made three promises with Obamacare:

1. You would be able to keep your current insurance plans
2. Healthcare will be more affordable
3. You will be able to keep your doctor

All three of these promises did not apply to my family. How can anyone support this law with a straight face? The only people who benefit are the insurance companies who get to charge higher premiums because Obamacare requires it. The rich don't have to worry because they can afford everything. Middle-class high quality care is being reduced to a poorer quality, only further widening the inequality gap in this country.

I want everyone to have access to high quality healthcare. Obamacare has put us backwards--and at a greater cost than the previous broken system.
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When you said your premium from the old insurance company was going to double, I simply do not believe you. Unless you had a junk policy that didn't provide much coverage, the items in the ACA that are mandated do not add much cost. Of course, you haven't given enough information to evaluate your old plan.

Not knowing your personal details. You might still have also gotten a subsidy. See: Subsidy Calculator | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation

The idea that your doctor isn't on your knew plan is nobody's fault but your own. The plan you signed up for was issued by an insurance company. Most states have multiple insurance companies on their exchanges. All you needed to do was ask your doctor what insurance plan he is a member and sign up for that one. You could have also signed up for the replacement plan that your previous insurance company offered you. Failing that due diligence, yes, you now have to find a doctor in the plan that you selected.

When you wrote, "our allergy pills now have a lower deductible and are twice as expensive as they were before this Obamacare disaster," I don't know what you are talking about. "lower deductibles" means you pay less out-of-pocket. Moreover, the price of drugs hasn't risen after January 1st. Perhaps you are saying, your out-of-pocket has doubled. But again, that was spelled out in the policy that you bought. You could have bought a policy that had a more comprehensive drug plan.

You also complained about wrong birth dates. Well, who typed that in other than you? If it was wrong, it is because you typed it in wrong. That's not a failing of Obamacare.

Call me suspicious, but the lead post sounds very trollish.
 
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Mycroft said:
If you consider the information the OP DID give, suggesting he might be eligible for a subsidy is pretty dumb. He makes almost $100K, for god's sake.
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Perhaps I am not being the dumb one. I punched in numbers on that website and he would get a subsidy, depending upon the state, with two adults and the rest under 21.

Results

The information below is about subsidized exchange coverage. Note that subsidies are only available for people purchasing coverage on their own in the exchange (not through an employer). Depending on your state's eligibility criteria, you or some members of your family may qualify for Medicaid.

Household income in 2014:
313% of poverty level
Maximum % of income you have to pay for the premium, if eligible for a subsidy:
9.5%
Health Insurance premium in 2014 (for a silver plan, before tax credit):
$12,492 per year
You could receive a government tax credit subsidy of up to:
$3,087 per year
(which covers 25% of the overall premium)
Amount you pay for the premium:
$9,405 per year
(which equals 9.5% of your household income and covers 75% of the overall premium)
Click to expand...
 
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MTAtech said:
Perhaps I am not being the dumb one. I punched in numbers on that website and he would get a subsidy, depending upon the state, with two adults and the rest under 21.
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I entered his State, California, his income, rounded to $100K, 2 adults, age 45, non-smoker and 3 or more children, employer insurance available, number in family 6. I used a SF zipcode because I don't know where in CA the OP lives. This is the result:

"Results

In general, employees who are offered insurance through work are not eligible for subsidized exchange coverage, so long as their insurance meets specified requirements. You would only be eligible for subsidized exchange coverage if your income is between 1 and 4 times the federal poverty level and you would have to pay more than 9.5% of your household income for your own coverage through the insurance offered by your employer."
 
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Mycroft said:
If you consider the information the OP DID give, suggesting he might be eligible for a subsidy is pretty dumb. He makes almost $100K, for god's sake.
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Yeah, but you have to remember liberals love to give free stuff.
 
Lakryte said:
Obama made three promises with Obamacare:

1. You would be able to keep your current insurance plans
2. Healthcare will be more affordable
3. You will be able to keep your doctor
Click to expand...

1. You were able to keep it. For starters, I don't believe you that your premium was going to double. Even if your plan didn't meet ObamaCare requirements, it wouldn't double just because now it provides birth control. The numbers don't add up. If the price did double, it was not strictly due to obamacare. My insurance where I work was tweaked to comply, and the premiums didn't change a dime. I don't believe you when you said it doubled. But regardless, by your own admission, you still had the choice to keep it.

2. I agree that they oversold this. I think the more accurate statement should have been "will try to slow down the rising cost of healthcare."

3. It's your fault that you bought insurance from a company that didn't accept your doctor. That's something that was on you. You had the choice of keeping your own insurance and doctor, and you didn't keep it. Obama can't force an insurance company to accept your doctor. This has nothing to do with ObamaCare.
 
roughdraft274 said:
1. You were able to keep it. For starters, I don't believe you that your premium was going to double. Even if your plan didn't meet ObamaCare requirements, it wouldn't double just because now it provides birth control. The numbers don't add up. If the price did double, it was not strictly due to obamacare. My insurance where I work was tweaked to comply, and the premiums didn't change a dime. I don't believe you when you said it doubled. But regardless, by your own admission, you still had the choice to keep it.

2. I agree that they oversold this. I think the more accurate statement should have been "will try to slow down the rising cost of healthcare."

3. It's your fault that you bought insurance from a company that didn't accept your doctor. That's something that was on you. You had the choice of keeping your own insurance and doctor, and you didn't keep it. Obama can't force an insurance company to accept your doctor. This has nothing to do with ObamaCare.
Click to expand...

For all your rationalizations, you, like others, want to give Obamacare a pass. The fact is, the OP wouldn't have to deal with any of this mess if it wasn't for Obamacare. He'd still be satisfied with the insurance he was getting through his employer.

All this trouble he's gone through has EVERYTHING to do with Obamacare.
 
Mycroft said:
For all your rationalizations, you, like others, want to give Obamacare a pass. The fact is, the OP wouldn't have to deal with any of this mess if it wasn't for Obamacare. He'd still be satisfied with the insurance he was getting through his employer.

All this trouble he's gone through has EVERYTHING to do with Obamacare.
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Who said the OP's employer offered insurance? The whole point was he had his own insurance.

It is also clear that everything doesn't add up. Quite likely is that the OP may not have known the deficiencies in his insurance -- such as no hospital coverage. He's satisfied with his insurance until he needs to go to the hospital and finds out it isn't covered. That's the only way a policy can double in price.
 
Mycroft said:
For all your rationalizations, you, like others, want to give Obamacare a pass. The fact is, the OP wouldn't have to deal with any of this mess if it wasn't for Obamacare. He'd still be satisfied with the insurance he was getting through his employer.

All this trouble he's gone through has EVERYTHING to do with Obamacare.
Click to expand...

Im not giving it a pass. It is an imperfect peice of legislation that didn't do nearly enough to solve the problems we were told it would fix. That doesn't however give anyone the authority to lie about it or to criticize it by lying about it.

And no, it's not a fact that he'd still have his doctor or his same insurance policy. It's more likely that he would, but in general his entire story sounds far fetched. Premiums don't double over night. Even if it didn't meet Obama care requirements. And with that, it was his decision to go out and get an insurance policy that his doctor was not a member of, but this is not a new thing. My company switched insurance companies a few years back (before the ACA) and in return we got slightly higher premiums, but lower deductables and a much wider selection of doctors and hospitals. These are things that people have had to deal with long before ObamaCare.
 
roughdraft274 said:
Im not giving it a pass. It is an imperfect peice of legislation that didn't do nearly enough to solve the problems we were told it would fix. That doesn't however give anyone the authority to lie about it or to criticize it by lying about it.

And no, it's not a fact that he'd still have his doctor or his same insurance policy. It's more likely that he would, but in general his entire story sounds far fetched. Premiums don't double over night. Even if it didn't meet Obama care requirements. And with that, it was his decision to go out and get an insurance policy that his doctor was not a member of, but this is not a new thing. My company switched insurance companies a few years back (before the ACA) and in return we got slightly higher premiums, but lower deductables and a much wider selection of doctors and hospitals. These are things that people have had to deal with long before ObamaCare.
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that isn't happening. people are getting higher premiums higher deductables and much more narrow network of doctors.
 
buck said:
Yes, The Hill is certainly biased. :roll:
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If you want to source the Hill the use that, not some junk site that links to it. Either way it's merely a prediction from an anonymous source. That's plenty enough for a low information person to make a decision, but it's not very persuasive to me, either way. If I showed you another article citing an anonymous source agreeing with me, would you all of a sudden throw your hands up and tell me I'm right?

Apply that logic to what you just posted then get back to me.
 
roughdraft274 said:
Im not giving it a pass. It is an imperfect peice of legislation that didn't do nearly enough to solve the problems we were told it would fix. That doesn't however give anyone the authority to lie about it or to criticize it by lying about it.

And no, it's not a fact that he'd still have his doctor or his same insurance policy. It's more likely that he would, but in general his entire story sounds far fetched. Premiums don't double over night. Even if it didn't meet Obama care requirements. And with that, it was his decision to go out and get an insurance policy that his doctor was not a member of, but this is not a new thing. My company switched insurance companies a few years back (before the ACA) and in return we got slightly higher premiums, but lower deductables and a much wider selection of doctors and hospitals. These are things that people have had to deal with long before ObamaCare.
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It doesn't matter if all that "might" happen without Obamacare. In the case of the OP, it DID happen because of Obamacare.

Yes...you are giving Obamacare a pass...and coming up with all kinds of rationalized spin to do it.
 
Mycroft said:
It doesn't matter if all that "might" happen without Obamacare. In the case of the OP, it DID happen because of Obamacare.

Yes...you are giving Obamacare a pass...and coming up with all kinds of rationalized spin to do it.
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He "claims" it happened because for ObamaCare. You don't know that, and I have personal testimony from relatives of success from the ObamaCare website, allowing them, small business owners, to be able to purchase more affordable health insurance for themselves. The only people I've heard claiming that there deductibles doubled are either morons who didn't realize that they were paying for awful ****ty insurance before ObamaCare or right wing loons who are probably lying.
 
roughdraft274 said:
If you want to source the Hill the use that, not some junk site that links to it.
Click to expand...

You were so fast to disbelieve anything negative, your first reaction was just to discount the source.. You didn't even bother following links, because you didn't want to.

Either way it's merely a prediction from an anonymous source. That's plenty enough for a low information person to make a decision, but it's not very persuasive to me, either way
Click to expand...

Multiple sources.. Some anonymous some not.

If I showed you another article citing an anonymous source agreeing with me, would you all of a sudden throw your hands up and tell me I'm right?

Apply that logic to what you just posted then get back to me.
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Yes, anonymous sources are quoted all the time and there are good reasons for many to want to remain anonymous.. Including divulging information that should not yet be made public or worry about blowback from politicians, customers or other groups.

Being informed of the anonymous source's job (in this case) and relevance to the discussion is sufficient enough to determine wether they know what they are talking about. An anonymous insurance company executive would have an idea of what premiums are doing. An anonymous Zoo keeper would not.

Additionally, I would look at who quoted the source... I would be less inclined to believe an anonymous source quoted by a far left or right article and more inclined to trust one from a more non-partisan cite.
 
roughdraft274 said:
He "claims" it happened because for ObamaCare. You don't know that, and I have personal testimony from relatives of success from the ObamaCare website, allowing them, small business owners, to be able to purchase more affordable health insurance for themselves. The only people I've heard claiming that there deductibles doubled are either morons who didn't realize that they were paying for awful ****ty insurance before ObamaCare or right wing loons who are probably lying.
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Now you sound like Harry Reid. LOL!!
 
roughdraft274 said:
He "claims" it happened because for ObamaCare. You don't know that, and I have personal testimony from relatives of success from the ObamaCare website, allowing them, small business owners, to be able to purchase more affordable health insurance for themselves. The only people I've heard claiming that there deductibles doubled are either morons who didn't realize that they were paying for awful ****ty insurance before ObamaCare or right wing loons who are probably lying.
Click to expand...

All those people are liars, of course Dingy Harry said so. So it must be true.
 
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