Opposition to CRT explained

[Rickeroo]

Crime, unemployment, education, etc… have nothing to do with a legacy of 4 centuries of systematic human chattel slavery and dehumanization?

Exactly. This is the 'establishment' phase of CRT. I'm supporting it by saying any and all racial disparity (between whites and Blacks only) is explained by 4 centuries of chattel and the like.

What comes next is the rectification and correction for those 4 centuries, though even South Africa is having a hard time with land reclamation despite whites being totally outvoted. CRT eventually runs up against mechanics, which is why we'll be in the performative phase of CRT for quite some time.

 

[ataraxia]

Exactly. This is the 'establishment' phase of CRT. I'm supporting it by saying any and all racial disparity (between whites and Blacks only) is explained by 4 centuries of chattel and the like.

What comes next is the rectification and correction for those 4 centuries, though even South Africa is having a hard time with land reclamation despite whites being totally outvoted. CRT eventually runs up against mechanics, which is why we'll be in the performative phase of CRT for quite some time.

So you are OK with not teaching the history of slavery or discrmination because you think it's going to inevitably lead to a "performative phase". What if the performative phase includes things like:

"Scholars who study critical race theory in education look at how policies and practices in K-12 education contribute to persistent racial inequalities in education, and advocate for ways to change them. Among the topics they’ve studied: racially segregated schools, the underfunding of majority-Black and Latino school districts, disproportionate disciplining of Black students, barriers to gifted programs and selective-admission high schools, and curricula that reinforce racist ideas."

What Is Critical Race Theory, and Why Is It Under Attack?

Here's what you need to understand about the academic concept—and how it's portrayed in political circles.

www.edweek.org

 

[Rickeroo]

So you are OK with not teaching the history of slavery or discrmination because you think it's going to inevitably lead to a "performative phase". What if the performative phase includes things like:

"Scholars who study critical race theory in education look at how policies and practices in K-12 education contribute to persistent racial inequalities in education, and advocate for ways to change them. Among the topics they’ve studied: racially segregated schools, the underfunding of majority-Black and Latino school districts, disproportionate disciplining of Black students, barriers to gifted programs and selective-admission high schools, and curricula that reinforce racist ideas."

What Is Critical Race Theory, and Why Is It Under Attack?

Here's what you need to understand about the academic concept—and how it's portrayed in political circles.

www.edweek.org

You misunderstand. We are currently in the performative phase of CRT and race relations: we're saying there's a problem and not doing anything to materially effect it. We don't need CRT to tell us that there's defacto segregation everywhere, minority schools get less funding, and Black students get in trouble more. I'll take one aspect to explain the difference between the performative and the curative.

Defacto segregation performative (this would be akin to whining/complaining/useless gestures):

- 400 years of slavery and redlining has caused Blacks to be segregated
- white flight has segregated school systems
- defacto segregation is really bad and it's white racist's fault
- we need more streets named MLK Boulevard
- take down another statue of an 1840's white guy
- a white Karen yells at a Black in Wal Mart, and she was racist


Defacto segregation curative:

- Bus minority students to white schools
- prevent white flight by limiting where whites can move to
- integrate white neighborhoods by giving Black families $75,000 to move in (or whatever the premium for "white housing" is)

The massive barrier between the performative and the curative, as far as CRT is concerned, is that once we're in the curative phase, white leftists are also hit with the cure. Hence the onus to stay performative.

 

[ataraxia]

You misunderstand. We are currently in the performative phase of CRT and race relations: we're saying there's a problem and not doing anything to materially effect it. We don't need CRT to tell us that there's defacto segregation everywhere, minority schools get less funding, and Black students get in trouble more. I'll take one aspect to explain the difference between the performative and the curative.

Defacto segregation performative (this would be akin to whining/complaining/useless gestures):

- 400 years of slavery and redlining has caused Blacks to be segregated
- white flight has segregated school systems
- defacto segregation is really bad and it's white racist's fault
- we need more streets named MLK Boulevard
- take down another statue of an 1840's white guy
- a white Karen yells at a Black in Wal Mart, and she was racist


Defacto segregation curative:

- Bus minority students to white schools
- prevent white flight by limiting where whites can move to
- integrate white neighborhoods by giving Black families $75,000 to move in (or whatever the premium for "white housing" is)

The massive barrier between the performative and the curative, as far as CRT is concerned, is that once we're in the curative phase, white leftists are also hit with the cure. Hence the onus to stay performative.

Someone kicks someone else in the nuts, then asks him why he doesn't just stand back up on his feet like everyone else.

Do you think any injustice was done? Do you think the fact that they were kicked in the nuts should just be brushed under the rug and the victim mocked and humiliated for not taking enough personal responsibility and getting up on their feet like everyone else?

 

[j brown's body]

Crime, unemployment, education, etc… have nothing to do with a legacy of 4 centuries of systematic human chattel slavery, segregation, discrimination, and dehumanization?

This is like kicking someone in the nuts and then asking why they can’t just get up and stand like you can.

Well, they do from the standpoint that it mostly occurs in heavily-segregated poverty-ridden communities that were created through racist housing policies that are based on the white supremacy that justified slavery.

 

[j brown's body]

You misunderstand. We are currently in the performative phase of CRT and race relations: we're saying there's a problem and not doing anything to materially effect it. We don't need CRT to tell us that there's defacto segregation everywhere, minority schools get less funding, and Black students get in trouble more. I'll take one aspect to explain the difference between the performative and the curative.

Defacto segregation performative (this would be akin to whining/complaining/useless gestures):

- 400 years of slavery and redlining has caused Blacks to be segregated
- white flight has segregated school systems
- defacto segregation is really bad and it's white racist's fault
- we need more streets named MLK Boulevard
- take down another statue of an 1840's white guy
- a white Karen yells at a Black in Wal Mart, and she was racist


Defacto segregation curative:

- Bus minority students to white schools
- prevent white flight by limiting where whites can move to
- integrate white neighborhoods by giving Black families $75,000 to move in (or whatever the premium for "white housing" is)

The massive barrier between the performative and the curative, as far as CRT is concerned, is that once we're in the curative phase, white leftists are also hit with the cure. Hence the onus to stay performative.

If we simply agreed that homes in black communities had the same values as ones in white communities all these issues would be resolved.

It won't be laws and policies that end white supremacy, its people's attitudes and beliefs that drive it.

 

[Rickeroo]

Do you think any injustice was done? Do you think the fact that they were kicked in the nuts should just be brushed under the rug and the victim mocked and humiliated for not taking enough personal responsibility and getting up on their feet like everyone else?

Of course there's injustice. If nut-kicking was done, then correct it. Merely saying "they were kicked in the nuts" doesn't make things better. Give them money or something - make it right. Will it be just conservative whites that give them money?

 

[Rickeroo]

If we simply agreed that homes in black communities had the same values as ones in white communities all these issues would be resolved.

It won't be laws and policies that end white supremacy, its people's attitudes and beliefs that drive it.

Precisely. If (and this is a big "if"), society placed the same value on white cultural norms as they did "other" norms, homes would normalize.

 

[ataraxia]

Of course there's injustice. If nut-kicking was done, then correct it. Merely saying "they were kicked in the nuts" doesn't make things better. Give them money or something - make it right. Will it be just conservative whites that give them money?

But what you are saying is the equivalent of saying let’s not tell anyone about the nut kicking at all. We’ll just pretend it never happened. And then everyone will just be left wondering why this person is doubled over grovelling on the ground, and we will just tell them it must be because they’re stupid and lazy and don’t share the cultural values of the rest of us standing on our feet.

 

[Citizen]

Many people who oppose CRT do so because it goes way past simply teaching history.

It accuses one ethnicity (the current one that is fast shrinking) of being wholly responsible for the shortcomings of another ethnicity.

That is obviously wrong.

Especially in 2022.

Hope the Republicans win the House and Senate in a few months.

Maybe they can do something to stop this pernicious and unAmerican theory from alienating our young people.

Give an example please of what is being taught in schools that accuses one ethnicity if being responsible for the shortcomings of another ethnicity and what might those "shortcomings" be.

 

[ataraxia]

Of course there's injustice. If nut-kicking was done, then correct it. Merely saying "they were kicked in the nuts" doesn't make things better. Give them money or something - make it right. Will it be just conservative whites that give them money?

If your only concern is giving money, I don’t think it’s going to happen. Like you said, it’s hard enough to define “white”, let alone “conservative white”. So your fears are not well placed. However, not specifically targeting poor neighborhoods to restrict voter access because we know it will disproportionately affect the poor minorities, may be a good place to start.

 

[Bear5131]

Bullshit and ****ing bullshit.

Fact

 

[Rickeroo]

If your only concern is giving money, I don’t think it’s going to happen. Like you said, it’s hard enough to define “white”, let alone “conservative white”. So your fears are not well placed. However, not specifically targeting poor neighborhoods to restrict voter access because we know it will disproportionately affect the poor minorities, may be a good place to start.

I never said it's hard to define white, and it's certainly very easy to define a conservative white. Down the road however, we'll need a race registry to determine the exact matrix of who has privilege and to what degree. Voter access won't help much. Chicago, Baltimore, South Africa and Detroit don't have white voters to hamper their progress, but don't have much to show for it.

But what you are saying is the equivalent of saying let’s not tell anyone about the nut kicking at all. We’ll just pretend it never happened. And then everyone will just be left wondering why this person is doubled over grovelling on the ground, and we will just tell them it must be because they’re stupid and lazy and don’t share the cultural values of the rest of us standing on our feet.

I'm doing the opposite of pretending it didn't happen. It did happen - nuts were kicked. I'm standing over a Black, as I have been for 400 years. Why do democrats allow this to happen? How long are democrats going to wait to fix this problem? It's been 400 years already.

 

[TheParser]

Give an example please of what is being taught in schools that accuses one ethnicity if being responsible for the shortcomings of another ethnicity and what might those "shortcomings" be.

That is the whole point of CRT: that the shortcomings of certain folks are due to the meanness of the (current & fast shrinking) majority ethnicity.

People are very intelligent.

They know what those shortcomings are.

 

[RealityNow]

CRT is used as a weapon by radicals. Treating White kids like they are guilty for what their ancestors did is wrong.

You need to pay attention... It's certain you sit your "Butt" in the house and make up assumptions based on bullshit...
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The Young People are out learning the truth for themselves, maybe you need to take a look at Tik-Tok as to how much information young white people post, to expose the malice, vile and inhumanity of white people in the past.

They are not feeling guilty about what they did not do, they are seeking the truths, they are exposing it, to ensure that society never allows it to happen again. They are also exposing it to let the world know, they don't condone it, and they don't see any right within what their ancestry did.
The young, as well as some older; whom many of them are white people, make it clear... They are not like their Ancestry.
They don't run from the truths of history... they put the truth out there, and they condemn the inhumanity of slavery, segregation and racist ignorance.

 

[Roadvirus]

Should Germans stop teaching Nazi history because it makes their kids feel guilty? Because I have not seen too many guilty Germans- yet they all know their history well.

Read my post again. I said nothing about "teaching".

 

[Roadvirus]

View attachment 67394255

Wow. Such an articulate post. You, sir, are a very skilled debater.

 

[Citizen]

That is the whole point of CRT: that the shortcomings of certain folks are due to the meanness of the (current & fast shrinking) majority ethnicity.

People are very intelligent.

They know what those shortcomings are.

LOL, it appears to me that you beleive that everyone else has "shortcomings" except the white race. Is that why you don't want to discuss the "shortcomings" of a race of people that build a nation on slavery and annihilating the native Americans.
Yes, people are very intelligent, they know what those "shortcomings" are.