Openminded, looking for intelligent arguments.

[Henrin]

Believe as you wish, Henrin.

Why won't you defend your argument? Why won't you just provide your reason or reasons for why you believe the behavior is self destructive? What are they doing that is factually self destructive? If they end up happier and healthier when it is all said and done then it seems to me the decision wasn't self destructive.

 

[Henrin]

My married daughters both have higher incomes than their husbands.
As stated the norm is changing and the women are now the breadwinners.

My younger daughter would love to be a stay at home mom but she's the breadwinner.

Her husband told her ( kiddingly I hope ) the other day that if she gets another raise he can quit his job
and become a stay dad.

Yup, men are becoming women and women are becoming men. Just watch TV for proof of that. I can't say I approve.

 

[Henrin]

Your opinion serves womens best interests not mens. Its also shortsighted because it neglects the long term consequences in favor of the immediate rewards for women. Next time we go to war lets call on our daughters to spill their blood instead of our sons and than lecture me on cutting your nose off to spite your face. Next time your caught on a sinking ship and men trample you as they take your seat on the life boat you can tell me about how foolishly men are behaving. Sometimes it takes losingbsomething before you can appriciate what you had.

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They already pretty much got that, you know. All that is left now is adding women to the draft.

 

[thinkagain]

You are wasting your time. Some posters here are only adept at spouting their ignorance and love to hear themselves talk. They believe that regurgitating some irrelevant textbook passage somehow validates their ignorant position.

Heck we have gone way past that. It is one thing to continue to maintain one's perspective on the basis of some source (even when that source has been shown to be flawed - abject nonsense in this case).

It is another completely ignore any and all information to the contrary to the point of denying that the sky is blue or that water is wet

It is also another when you point out the flaw in the information from a source - to refuse to even talk about those flaws (or show why the source is not flawed) and mindlessly revert back to standing on a soap box and repeating premise over and over like a broken record.

My curiosity is the degree of mind bending and twisted illogic and disingenuous tactics to which some will stoop. Sad commentary on the human condition.

 

[jaeger19]

Your opinion serves womens best interests not mens. Its also shortsighted because it neglects the long term consequences in favor of the immediate rewards for women. Next time we go to war lets call on our daughters to spill their blood instead of our sons and than lecture me on cutting your nose off to spite your face. Next time your caught on a sinking ship and men trample you as they take your seat on the life boat you can tell me about how foolishly men are behaving. Sometimes it takes losingbsomething before you can appriciate what you had.

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My female cousins did amongst them several tours in A stan and Iraq. And saw combat.. like use your rifle and defend yourself combat. BUT.. in the wisdom of the US military.. they don't get credit for being in combat.. because technically they were not assigned to official combat units (because at the time.. only men could be officially in combat units). But they were "attached" to combat units to get around this provision. (I may have that reversed between assigned and attached.)

 

[prometeus]

What makes you think your post had any reason to be made?

WTF are you babbling about? You replied to my post with moronic drivel and now are doubling down.

 

[thinkagain]

My married daughters both have higher incomes than their husbands.
As stated the norm is changing and the women are now becoming the breadwinners.

My younger daughter would love to be a stay at home mom but she's the breadwinner.

Her husband told her ( kiddingly I hope ) the other day that if she gets another raise he can quit his job
and become Mr. mom.

LOL "My Dream" ! The kids are finished College (except one in third year and is at a school away from home) but, a happy thought that would be.

 

[Henrin]

WTF are you babbling about? You replied to my post with moronic drivel and now are doubling down.

What was moronic about my post? If human life begins at birth then inducing child birth actually cases the unborn to be human life earlier. Do you somehow not see how that makes the argument that human life begins at child birth flawed?

 

[thinkagain]

Yup, men are becoming women and women are becoming men. Just watch TV for proof of that. I can't say I approve.

You would not approve of your wife making so much money that you would not have to slave away for some jerk and/or to make someone else money such that you could do what you want ?

Explain por favor ?

 

[Henrin]

You would not approve of your wife making so much money that you would not have to slave away for some jerk and/or to make someone else money such that you could do what you want ?

Explain por favor ?

No. I have no desire to be provided for by my wife/girlfriend. No self respecting man should desire to be provided for or for his wife to earn more than he does. The first is pathetic loserism and the second is just being the wife. I would be very unhappy in such an arrangement.

 

[Removable Mind]

Why won't you defend your argument? Why won't you just provide your reason or reasons for why you believe the behavior is self destructive? What are they doing that is factually self destructive? If they end up happier and healthier when it is all said and done then it seems to me the decision wasn't self destructive.

Why should I defend what I said? Men who quit their jobs so that they can't be nailed for child support isn't being self-destructive? Really? That only leaves a couple of options. One is to mooch off of friends and relatives for food and shelter or become homeless.

Which of those options would work for you?

 

[Henrin]

Why should I defend what I said? Men who quit their jobs so that they can't be nailed for child support isn't being self-destructive? Really? That only leaves a couple of options. One is to mooch off of friends and relatives for food and shelter or become homeless.

Which of those options would work for you?

Quitting your job could mean to leave the public eye, you know. If you work under the table you get to keep all the money you earn and the government doesn't know you're doing it.

 

[Removable Mind]

Quitting your job could mean to leave the public eye, you know. If you work under the table you get to keep all the money you earn and the government doesn't know you're doing it.

Ah, so there's a third destructive option. Become a fugitive, much like undocumented workers. Good thinking, Henrin. Very clever.

But what types of work could one get or do for cash and hide from government? How about utility companies, gonna hide from them to? Gotta have some means to pay for those. And don't think things like that isn't a resource for skip tracers...and even government.

 

[Henrin]

Ah, so there's a third destructive option. Become a fugitive, much like undocumented workers. Good thinking, Henrin. Very clever.

But what types of work could one get or do for cash and hide from government? How about utility companies, gonna hide from them to? Gotta have some means to pay for those. And don't think things like that isn't a resource for skip tracers...and even government.

Chances are no one would ever find out. Do you have any idea how many people are working under the table right now all over the country? As for your idea that the government will figure it out through the payment of bills, no, they won't. The government is not going to conclude that you're working under the table because you're still paying your bills.

 

[Removable Mind]

Chances are no one would ever find out. Do you have any idea how many people are working under the table right now all over the country? As for your idea that the government will figure it out through the payment of bills, no, they won't. The government is not going to conclude that you're working under the table because you're still paying your bills.

Experience tell you that?

I've allotted you too much time today. Bye, Henrin.... :2wave:

 

[Henrin]

Experience tell you that?

I've allotted you too much time today. Bye, Henrin.... :2wave:

Why would the government conclude something must be up because you're still paying bills? Your idea appears to be that they will notice payments are made, notice you're unemployed and start investigating, but do you honestly believe that?

 

[Scrabaholic]

Okay, you assert that the loss of a tiny, inconvenient life form isn't tragic, is that it?

I never said any such thing. I asked you questions, which so far you have not answered.

 

[thinkagain]

Which is in part why i support men who take the passive agressive response of not compling by opting out. The less men do is the more women have to do. Women will end up regretting the dynamic that has been created.

On a side note i am going to respond to your earlier post about the zygote. I just need the time to dig into it. You got pretty deep and you surprised me by making a compelling argument against the zygote that i did not think existed.

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LOL ... I do have arguments "for" the personhood of zygote that you may have not considered as well. We were taught in Philosophy that we were to find the best arguments we could on both sides of the fence. Only when one knows and understands the best argument that both sides can muster can one be said to be in command of the subject matter.

To be honest it is tough coming up with good arguments for the personhood of the zygote. Though not impossible. These are more Philosophical and moral arguments.

I would like to get to these but the cacophony of fallacy and disingenuous language clouds the way. I was even willing to compromise on the science argument but, can not even get folks to agree to the obvious and demonstrable scientific fact that "experts disagree".

If folks are in this much "denial of the obvious" then getting into Philosophy is a complete waste of time.

Kudos then for saying "that's an interesting argument". I do the same when I come across them. Shows that there is something going on up there.

The thing about "experts disagree" is that one can still maintain ones position because if "experts disagree" that means the issue is not settled. It only requires that one acknowledge that there are other good arguments (or even just other arguments ... even if one does not think they are good but, then one darn well be able to refute them .. avoiding and ignoring them does not cut it)

 

[JoeTheEconomist]

Men are not liable at conception. If they were pregnancy support would be the name of the game. The are potentially liable if a child is born.


And good grief. I am a single mother and you think I did not have a commitment to my child? Seriously?

"The are potentially liable if a child is born." That event is out of their control, unless you believe that men should have the right to force women to have an abortion. This point has nothing to do with you or or background. It is a legal issue. You can google it, "paternity suit".

 

[Henrin]

Men are not liable at conception. If they were pregnancy support would be the name of the game. The are potentially liable if a child is born.


And good grief. I am a single mother and you think I did not have a commitment to my child? Seriously?

If men can do nothing after that point then the state is effectively holding them accountable for the sperm reaching the egg.

 

[thinkagain]

No. I have no desire to be provided for by my wife/girlfriend. No self respecting man should desire to be provided for or for his wife to earn more than he does. The first is pathetic loserism and the second is just being the wife. I would be very unhappy in such an arrangement.

I should have worded my post differently. I want to distinguish between "your personal desire" and the general case. You have kind of done that though which is good.

There is a difference between what you personally desire and the claim that "no self respecting man should desire that his wife earn more than he does".

I would claim that "pathetic loserism" is thinking that one's manhood is challenged by the fact that a woman could make more money "more so" than if it were another man making more money. Sure we are all competitive but, just because some "person" makes more money than you does not make you less of a man. (or does it?).

Further, what difference does it make whether this person is a man or a woman ? Thinking that one's manhood is challenged more so by a woman making more money than a man would indicate a very low respect for women. This in my books is "pathetic loserism"

That idea that one is necessarily superior in all aspects related to the ability to earn income - simply on the basis of gender- is "pathetic loserism" in my books.

The idea that a man can not be proud of his wife because she is a smart and powerful woman is "pathetic loserism" in my books.

That a man would want to continue being a slave (working some good for nothing job making low wages) given the opportunity not to have to continue doing this (via winning the lottery or some other means .. such as winning the lottery by marrying a women who is stinking rich) is just stupid in my books. Dumb and Dumber on steroids.

 

[Henrin]

I should have worded my post differently. I want to distinguish between "your personal desire" and the general case. You have kind of done that though which is good.

There is a difference between what you personally desire and the claim that "no self respecting man should desire that his wife earn more than he does".

I would claim that "pathetic loserism" is thinking that one's manhood is challenged by the fact that a woman could make more money "more so" than if it were another man making more money. Sure we are all competitive but, just because some "person" makes more money than you does not make you less of a man. (or does it?).

Further, what difference does it make whether this person is a man or a woman ? Thinking that one's manhood is challenged more so by a woman making more money than a man would indicate a very low respect for women. This in my books is "pathetic loserism"

That idea that one is necessarily superior in all aspects related to the ability to earn income - simply on the basis of gender- is "pathetic loserism" in my books.

The idea that a man can not be proud of his wife because she is a smart and powerful woman is "pathetic loserism" in my books.

That a man would want to continue being a slave (working some good for nothing job making low wages) given the opportunity not to have to continue doing this (via winning the lottery or some other means .. such as winning the lottery by marrying a women who is stinking rich) is just stupid in my books. Dumb and Dumber on steroids.

He was talking about not working at all because of his desire to not work. That is loserism by any decent interpretation of what it means to be a loser. Anyway, everything else you said doesn't interest me and I'm not going to get into some stupid female empowerment thing with you. The fact is the roles are reversing themselves and instead of men standing up against it they are embracing it like it is ok. I'm sorry, but it's not ok and I don't agree that men should earn less than their wives. You can say whatever you please about that if you so desire, but as for me, I will not be party to it. You can also embrace feminist views like you are and this feminist society that we're forced to live under because of feminists, but I will do no such thing.

 

[trouble13]

They already pretty much got that, you know. All that is left now is adding women to the draft.

I dont see the juxtaposition complete yet but we are rapidly approaching that point.

I look forward to seeing hownwomen react when they are put into the position of head of household and have limited options because they are the primary provider. While husbands stay home, take care of the household, and maybe take in a ball game with the kids while she is at work earning the money he is spending. Then when this arraingment turns sour for her and she decides she wants out she is going to face a bog problem. She is going to face having to forfeit custody to keep her job so she can finacialy provide for the people who have become accustomed to the lifestyle she provided for them. Now asking for a divorce puts her on the short end of the stick. She will learn whats it like to have limited options thatbare all bad for her while her partner has many choices that all benefit him.

We are not there yet but we are moving in that direction. I only hope im around long enough to see and return them the favor of showing them no empathy for the dilemma they find themselves in. When they cry foul i will be sure to make the same apeal to authority that they are using on men now.

Women are going to get what the feminists are asking for its bad they are too dumb to see they are not going to like it when they get it.

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[Henrin]

I dont see the juxtaposition complete yet but we are rapidly approaching that point.

I look forward to seeing hownwomen react when they are put into the position of head of household and have limited options because they are the primary provider. While husbands stay home, take care of the household, and maybe take in a ball game with the kids while she is at work earning the money he is spending. Then when this arraingment turns sour for her and she decides she wants out she is going to face a bog problem. She is going to face having to forfeit custody to keep her job so she can finacialy provide for the people who have become accustomed to the lifestyle she provided for them. Now asking for a divorce puts her on the short end of the stick. She will learn whats it like to have limited options thatbare all bad for her while her partner has many choices that all benefit him.

We are not there yet but we are moving in that direction. I only hope im around long enough to see and return them the favor of showing them no empathy for the dilemma they find themselves in. When they cry foul i will be sure to make the same apeal to authority that they are using on men now.

Women are going to get what the feminists are asking for its bad they are too dumb to see they are not going to like it when they get it.

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That what they wanted all along. It's not somehow going to turn out badly for them when the majority of households have the wife as the breadwinner and the man at home when that is what they wanted. They wanted to tear men down and replace them and that is what they are getting.

 

[Fishking]

Where is the outcry that two - thirds of all fertilized human eggs ( zygotes ) either pass right through the woman's body or self abort within the first week of inplantion?

Where is the outcry that 15 to 20 percent of all known pregnancies ( where the woman is aware she is pregnant ) end in spontaneous abortion ( miscarriage ) ?

You're making a false comparison between something that is a normal and something that would constituted an abnormal shift in pregnancies.