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Open Carry: I appreciate the effort but...

haymarket said:
So as a citizen when I see a person with a holstered gun I have no reason for concern because that holster prevents that person from removing it and firing it?

I really do not think that is any answer at all.
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I wouldn't be concerned about a holstered weapon. But much of any concern should be how the owner of the weapon is behaving. Of course you get crazies of all stripes such as the popcorn shooter in Florida. But in reality a holstered pistol shouldn't cause much alarm. Now a rifle like the fool in the story did, would put a lot of people on edge rightfully.
 
PoS said:
Why do you keep quoting online dictionaries? They are not accurate. Any lawyer will tell you that military personnel take an oath and are subjected to military law, a police officer is subjected to civilian law and is therefore a civilian. Ive already told you to ask a cop or a lawyer and stop quoting dictionaries as if they meant everything yet you seem to be denying reality again.
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I have quoted nearly a dozen dictionaries - including the most accepted and authoritative ones. They are the experts in the meaning of words in our language.
 
voyager1 said:
I wouldn't be concerned about a holstered weapon. But much of any concern should be how the owner of the weapon is behaving. Of course you get crazies of all stripes such as the popcorn shooter in Florida. But in reality a holstered pistol shouldn't cause much alarm. Now a rifle like the fool in the story did, would put a lot of people on edge rightfully.
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In a matter of very short seconds that holstered pistol becomes a weapon in the hand of the owner just like a carried rifle does.
 
haymarket said:
I have quoted nearly a dozen dictionaries - including the most accepted and authoritative ones. They are the experts in the meaning of words in our language.
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They are not experts, dictionaries make mistakes since they just copy each other's text. Ask a cop if he is military and he will tell you he is not. Goshin was a former cop and he will admit he was a civilian back then, not military. I do not know why you continue to deny reality.
 
haymarket said:
I would agree that people cannot violate the Constitution in creating the type of society they want to live in. Where you and I disagree is on what the limits are for government to reasonably pass laws regarding the keeping and bearing of arms.
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I can agree to this. But I'm not sure how the second part there addresses what we were talking about. Are you of the thought that the government should not be able to pass laws allowing open carry, constitutionally speaking? That perhaps they can only pass laws which restrict such? Please explain how it addresses what we were talking about.

haymarket said:
So explain to me again how the OP presumes that a rifle may indeed upset people as a perceived threat but a pistol does not present any such perceived threat?
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I don't presume to presume what the OP thinks. But imo people are less afraid of open carrying a pistol than a rifle. As has been noted in this thread rifles have a more perceived threat than pistols. You have cops carrying them, bank guards carrying them, guards at corporations carrying them etc etc. Plus whenever major gun control policies have been pushed forward people, and politicians, focused on showing pictures of rifles. As such they are perceived to be more dangerous than handguns. You are right that they can both be just as dangerous. But people are less likely to freak out over a hand gun than a rifle. Indeed, most youtube video's of cops talking to those promoting open carry are of people carrying rifles. Very few (relatively speaking) are of those carrying handguns.
 
haymarket said:
So as a citizen when I see a person with a holstered gun I have no reason for concern because that holster prevents that person from removing it and firing it?

I really do not think that is any answer at all.
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Human beings make judgment calls every single day. It's why we make brief eye contact with people in crowded areas. Just a fleeting glance. We do it automatically, and it helps keep us safe. If you are afraid of a man with a holstered pistol just because he has a holstered pistol, you have a gun phobia, in my opinion.

Me? I'm fascinated by them.
 
haymarket said:
In a matter of very short seconds that holstered pistol becomes a weapon in the hand of the owner just like a carried rifle does.
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True, but who is going to walk into somewhere with a holstered pistol. If someone is going to do something crazy they are going to move in real quick and start shooting. Further they are going to brandish the weapon like fruit loop airport guy did. Until that weapon moves, it just a guy/gal exercising their right.
 
MaggieD said:
Human beings make judgment calls every single day. It's why we make brief eye contact with people in crowded areas. Just a fleeting glance. We do it automatically, and it helps keep us safe. If you are afraid of a man with a holstered pistol just because he has a holstered pistol, you have a gun phobia, in my opinion.

Me? I'm fascinated by them.
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Of course you are fascinated by men with big guns... you are a chick after all :lol:
 
voyager1 said:
Of course you are fascinated by men with big guns... you are a chick after all :lol:
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Uniforms! I'm big on UNIFORMS!

Well, not Park District personnel, but, you know . . .

I wonder if it follows that men who DON'T carry guns are jealous of those who do . . . hmmmmm.....

And I wonder if that's why a disproportionate number of guys hate cops . . . hmmmmm....
 
haymarket said:
So as a citizen when I see a person with a holstered gun I have no reason for concern because that holster prevents that person from removing it and firing it?

I really do not think that is any answer at all.
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This is about perception, not utility. If this guy had his rifle in a 'sleve' I highly doubt anyone would have cared. Even at an airport most would probably assume it was basicaly luggage.

Anyway why did this guy unsling his rifle in the first place?
 
MaggieD said:
My thoughts exactly. These idiots are doing more harm than good. Look at what's happened at national fast-food places because a group of complete imbeciles come in with their long guns in camouflage to make their point. The only "point" they're making is the one on top of their heads.

Any responsible gun owner should find these antics abominable and be vocal about it, too. (Oh, unless you're AFRAID of six guys who come into an establishment sporting long guns. Can't imagine why, though.)
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I suspect its the anti-gun radicals who are performing these stunts.
 
Jerry said:
I suspect its the anti-gun radicals who are performing these stunts.
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Interesting take. Never thought of it.

Judging by photos I've seen, though, they look like Moe, Larry & Curly. I go with "just plain stupid."
 
PoS said:
They are not experts, dictionaries make mistakes since they just copy each other's text. Ask a cop if he is military and he will tell you he is not. Goshin was a former cop and he will admit he was a civilian back then, not military. I do not know why you continue to deny reality.
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So you want to me ask a person who is a fellow true believer and ignore a stack of authoritative dictionaries? Got it. If you have any doubt that you are knee deep into a subculture that is apart from the rest of the nation - this is one indication when normal words do not mean to you what they do to the rest of society.
 
Kal'Stang said:
I can agree to this. But I'm not sure how the second part there addresses what we were talking about. Are you of the thought that the government should not be able to pass laws allowing open carry, constitutionally speaking? That perhaps they can only pass laws which restrict such? Please explain how it addresses what we were talking about.
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Laws against open carry - and that includes pistols - go back more than 150 years to communities in the USA and that even includes the Old West where supposedly the gun was king.
 
voyager1 said:
True, but who is going to walk into somewhere with a holstered pistol. If someone is going to do something crazy they are going to move in real quick and start shooting. Further they are going to brandish the weapon like fruit loop airport guy did. Until that weapon moves, it just a guy/gal exercising their right.
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I would rather not find out for sure. I suspect lots of scenarios are possible.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Please show the documents.
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Have already done so .... repeatedly. But for the crowd with no memory here is an editorial from the state that is the King of Guns where they cite two such incidents of open intimidation from open carry advocates

Editorial: Intimidation from open-carry proponents | Dallas Morning News

And lets not play coy and pretend that you do not know what they are talking about.

and this - also from Texas

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/05/guns-open-carry-texas-harassment-marine-veteran

and

http://thedailybanter.com/2014/06/lets-call-open-carry-gun-gangs-extremists-terrorists/
 
haymarket said:
Laws against open carry - and that includes pistols - go back more than 150 years to communities in the USA and that even includes the Old West where supposedly the gun was king.
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If one examines history, it will be found that anti-carry restrictions did not work then either.

TV and movies are not good history lessons.

:peace

Thom Paine
 
CRUE CAB said:
Sorry, I suppose you can live else where. Clearly you don't understand what a Right is.
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I simply love when the righties employ the ultimate snobbish conceit that anyone who disagrees with their views simply does not understand or just doesn't know.

What you really mean is your extremist beliefs are simply not shared. But it sounds so much more flattering to you if you pretend the problem is one of lack of understanding or knowledge rather than an honest disagreement about the margins and details of an issue.
 
haymarket said:
I simply love when the righties employ the ultimate snobbish conceit that anyone who disagrees with their views simply does not understand or just doesn't know.

What you really mean is your extremist beliefs are simply not shared. But it sounds so much more flattering to you if you pretend the problem is one of lack of understanding or knowledge rather than an honest disagreement about the margins and details of an issue.
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I simply love when the lefties think that a respect and belief in the Constitution is "extremist".
 
haymarket said:
Have already done so .... repeatedly. But for the crowd with no memory here is an editorial from the state that is the King of Guns where they cite two such incidents of open intimidation from open carry advocates

Editorial: Intimidation from open-carry proponents | Dallas Morning News

And lets not play coy and pretend that you do not know what they are talking about.

and this - also from Texas

Gun Activists With Assault Rifles Harass Marine Veteran on Memorial Day | Mother Jones

and

Let's Call 'Open Carry' Gun Gangs What They Are: Extremists and Terrorists | The Daily Banter
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So some "pro gunners" are still of the belief that our guns need to stay hidden like a bad sore and some "marine" goes to confront people, then is butt hurt about people confronting back.
BFD
 
haymarket said:
I have presented authoritative evidence that police officers are not civilians.

You have presented nothing.
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No point in arguing with you about it. A cop can be fired. An elected official has to be removed by legal process, same for military. Your opinion does not define the position and I don't much care if you prefer to be wrong about it.
 
haymarket said:
What does that last quip suppose to mean? If you don't believe that the average person looks upon a uniformed cop differently than a armed civilian - you do not live in the same America that most of us do and it is you who have been programmed because of rightist ideology.
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I know many of our local police personally. I see them as people on the job, not authoritative units.
 
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