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Only two Presidents in last 50 year to reduce the deficit

dear, obviously if that worked economists would know it and the world would not have recessions. In fact, govt spending make things worse by stimulating a part of the economy that collapses into recession when the stimulus is withdrawn. 1+1=2. Do you understand?

This kind of statement confirms Einstein's famous dictum that for every complex problem there's a solution that's simple, elegant and wrong. In this case it's "simplistic."
 
This kind of statement confirms Einstein's famous dictum that for every complex problem there's a solution that's simple, elegant and wrong. In this case it's "simplistic."

if wrong and simplistic you would not be so afraid to say why. What do we learn from your fear?
 
Today's conservatives aren't really conservative. They're really just idiots."

today's conservatives and libertarians want freedom from big liberal govt just as Aristotle and our Founders did. Do you understand?
 
if wrong and simplistic you would not be so afraid to say why. What do we learn from your fear?

What fear ...?

Speculating the existence of a point does not create one.

today's conservatives and libertarians want freedom from big liberal govt just as Aristotle and our Founders did. Do you understand?

If that were true, they would have built your anarchist utopia and we wouldn't be able to have this conversation.
 
I notice that you hold Bush entirely unaccountable for any of this. Mind telling us why?
Bush didn't create Fan/Fred/Fed (at collapse Fan/Fred held 75% of alt A and sub prime mortgages) which printed and guaranteed the money necessary to make the housing bubble possible. These are very liberal activists institutions generally opposed by conservatives and libertarians. In any case, Bush is irrelevant since he was not a conservative and is not at all like Trump or Cruz who are the new face and philosophy of the Party. Do you understand?
 
If that were true, they would have built your anarchist utopia and we wouldn't be able to have this conversation.

dear, conservatives libertarians and our Founders are/were not not anarchists!! Sorry to rock your world.
 
What fear ...?

.

what fear? the fear to explain why I was wrong!! What does his fear to explainr teach us about his ability to explain?? isn't thinking fun?
 
today's conservatives and libertarians want freedom from big liberal govt just as Aristotle and our Founders did. Do you understand?

No, they don't. They just want little government in their personal lives and big government for everyone else. For example, they want government to make sure business is protected and shielded (from environmental, safety and civil rights violations) by government but labor has no such protections or shields. There's also the blatantly hypocritical position of wanting government to control and monitor the reproductive lives of women. Can't get any more intrusive than that, or can they, James?
 
dear, conservatives libertarians and our Founders are/were not not anarchists!! Sorry to rock your world.

Today's conservatives and libertarians are not a bit like our founders (except that you don't get to own slaves....yet, at least). No amount of fantasizing about that can make it true (this applies to both the false comparison and any ideas they might have for re-introducing slavery).
 
John finds the ideas of Aristotle and our Founders trollish!! What do we learn from that?


What'd really be fun to see is you trying to explain how our enlightenment era founders and Aristotle who actually believed in science and fact-based decision making are anything like today's conservatives who are anti-learning, anti-science and fact-averse in the extreme.
 
if wrong and simplistic you would not be so afraid to say why. What do we learn from your fear?

I think the burden is on you to show us how this simplistic (in the extreme) statement:
In fact, govt spending make things worse by stimulating a part of the economy that collapses into recession when the stimulus is withdrawn. 1+1=2. Do you understand?
has any fact-based* validity.


*Meaning the usual rightwing cant or citation of discredited pseudo-economists (von Mises, or Laffer e.g.) are not acceptable. Real data from apolitical sources must be presented.
 
Bush didn't create Fan/Fred/Fed (at collapse Fan/Fred held 75% of alt A and sub prime mortgages) which printed and guaranteed the money necessary to make the housing bubble possible. These are very liberal activists institutions generally opposed by conservatives and libertarians. In any case, Bush is irrelevant since he was not a conservative and is not at all like Trump or Cruz who are the new face and philosophy of the Party. Do you understand?

This is one of my favor bogus rightwing arguments because it's so easy to demolish. First, Bush may not have created the GSEs (actually were bipartisan products dating back 100 years) but he sure exploited the housing boom of the early 00s when he ran for re-election in 2004 on a slogan of "The Ownership Society." As for the boilerplate rightwing gibberish ("which printed and guaranteed the money necessary to make the housing bubble possible." I take great pleasure in informing you that the GSEs do not "print the money" nor did they have anything to do with creating the housing bubble which was entirely the creation of the corrupt private mortgage financing sector that committed fraud at every step of the mortgage lending process from entering false incomes for borrowers, misleading people into ARMs which gave higher commissions to the brokers than conventional mortgages, collusion with appraisers to artificially inflate home prices and other practices that don't come to mind at the moment. This is a good time also to destroy that inevitable lie that poor people (i.e., "the blacks") were the cause of FMAC/FMAE problems. Many middle class Americans of all colors had their loans guaranteed by the GSEs who were just as much a victim of the fraud of the private sector which wrote all these bad faith loans.* The only fair charge is that the GSEs didn't react quickly enough to what was going on unlike the private banks who held most of the bad loans and when they realized how much garbage and liability they were facing did the most damage with those loans by deliberately bundling them all up in these impenetrable MBS investment "products" and sold them with inflated bond ratings (courtesy of corrupt rating agencies like Moodys and Standard and Poors; ironic, that name, eh?). This is all well documented in Michael Lewis's book, The Big Short. But, back to the GSEs. The biggest support for those agencies comes not from "very liberal activists" but from the big banks and other lenders who are protected by them (the GSEs) and exploited those GSEs.

One of the biggest, if not the biggest, items in the American dream (and it is just that, a dream) is that of home ownership. So if you rightwing libertarians want to become really effective dream killers then by all means do what you can to destroy the GSEs and any other government effort to make home ownership affordable. But just be ready for the feudal economy** that would lead us into and to take responsibility for it. Oh, wait. You never do that. Never mind.


*another considerable source for bad loans were house flippers who fit no one's definition of "liberal activists" or low-income people trying to get just one decent house to live in.

** as a little exercise in economics, look up and try to memorize how much of the economy is based on housing and how many sectors of that economy are affected by it.
 
This is one of my favor bogus rightwing arguments because it's so easy to demolish. First, Bush may not have created the GSEs .

dear, who care about Bush? He is not president, is not running and more importantly he was not a conservative libertarian. Over your head??
 
As for the boilerplate rightwing gibberish ("which printed and guaranteed the money necessary to make the housing bubble possible." I take great pleasure in informing you that the GSEs do not "print the money".

dear, I did not say each printed and guaranteed. The activist liberal Fed printed it and activist liberal Fan/Fred guaranteed it and ended up holding 75% of Alt A and sub prime mortgaes. Now do you understand?
 
nor did they have anything to do with creating the housing bubble.

dear, it would have been 100% impossible for bubble to happen without the Fed printing up the money to buy and bubble up the price of all those houses. Did you think people were buying them with Girl Scout Cookies??? Fannie had noting to do with it when they held or guaranteed 75% of the subprime and Alt A mortgages?? Do you feel dumb now??
 
This is all well documented in Michael Lewis's book, The Big Short.

dear, banks and home buyers were making good decisions given that the liberal govt was always stimulating the housing market thus keeping prices always going up. If a homeowner could not pay his mortgage they merely sold the house at a profit for everyone. The liberal govt made it happen. Capitalism is self correcting. Do you understand?
 
The biggest support for those agencies comes not from "very liberal activists" but from the big banks and other lenders who are protected by them (the GSEs) and exploited those GSEs.

dear liberal govt created those GSE's not bankers while Republican capitalists opposed!!"

Not to make you look bad, but better late than never:

I think the responsibility that the democrats have may rest more in resisting any efforts by any republicans in congress, or me when I was president, to put some standards and tighten up on Fannie May and Freddie Mac."-Bill Clinton


Barney Frank: "I hope by next year we'll have abolished Fanny Freddie... it was a great mistake to push lower income people into homes they couldn't afford and couldn't really handle once they had it"


"These two entities—Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac—are not facing any kind of financial crisis," said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. "The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."-Barney Frank


Rep. Maxine Waters (D., Calif.), speaking to Housing and Urban Development Secretary Mel Martinez:

Secretary Martinez, if it ain't broke, why do you want to fix it? Have the GSEs [government-sponsored enterprises] ever missed their housing goals?
 
then by all means do what you can to destroy the GSEs.

dear, the GSE's were primary cause of crisis so of course you want to get rid of them. Even Barny Frank wants to get rid of them. Don't forget GSE's is only one of 1000 forms of crippling welfare a libcommie wants. Now you have Sanders, an open communist advocating college tuition welfare. There is never and end. This is why liberals spied for Stalin and now support Sanders. Do you understand?
 
"Since I came into office, we reduced the deficit by two-thirds, but if you ask the average person, they're sure that spending has shot up. And the reason is because there are a bunch of folks who say that we're wildly overspending, even though we aren't.- Barack Obama, appearing on Ellen

Now as much as phoneyboy and his fanboys and girlsl love to rip the GOP , wouldn't it have been Presidential for Obama to acknowledge that the ONLY reason we aren't wildly overspending is the Republicans. It it were up to him, we'd be triple wildly overspending.
 
"Since I came into office, we reduced the deficit by two-thirds, but if you ask the average person, they're sure that spending has shot up. And the reason is because there are a bunch of folks who say that we're wildly overspending, even though we aren't.- Barack Obama, appearing on Ellen

Now as much as phoneyboy and his fanboys and girlsl love to rip the GOP , wouldn't it have been Presidential for Obama to acknowledge that the ONLY reason we aren't wildly overspending is the Republicans. It it were up to him, we'd be triple wildly overspending.

Here are the actual budget amounts for the beginning and end of Bush's terms in office (note the the 2009FY--i.e., Oct1 '08 to Sep30 '09--is the last Bush budget, not Obama's as some rightwingers like to say):
2002 2.0T
2009 3.5T
Here are the Obama budgets
2010 3.5T
2015 3.7T
source: US Federal Budget Definition - Spending Breakdown Deficit Debt Pie Chart

The increase over Bush's 8 years is 75% or roughly 9.4% per annum (the big increase in his 2009 budget was due almost entirely to the transfer to the budget from all the "off-budget" "emergency" appropriations for Iraq War spending over several years before he left office plus some of the TARP spending) . The increase over Obama's first 6 budgets is only 5.7% or about just under 1% per annum--at or even below in overall inflation rate during those years. So, clearly Obama has signed his name to budgets that have resulted in a much (MUCH) slower growth in spending than Bush. The budgeting process is a negotiating process between the executive and legislative branches so when a budget is finally passed and signed into law everyone involved either gets the blame for excess spending or credit for controlling it. I don't mind giving Congress half the credit for this reduced spending but they don't get it all, by any shot. BTW, since the slow recovery is largely due to the private sector failure (i.e., the banks who got made whole by TARP and QE with the expectation that they would use that money to pump into the economy by freeing up credit and did not do so, the fact that government spending was also kept very tight for the past 6 years and the republican "sequester" have certainly contributed to that sluggishness.
 
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dear liberal govt created those GSE's not bankers while Republican capitalists opposed!!"

Not to make you look bad, but better late than never:

I think the responsibility that the democrats have may rest more in resisting any efforts by any republicans in congress, or me when I was president, to put some standards and tighten up on Fannie May and Freddie Mac."-Bill Clinton


Barney Frank: "I hope by next year we'll have abolished Fanny Freddie... it was a great mistake to push lower income people into homes they couldn't afford and couldn't really handle once they had it"


"These two entities—Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac—are not facing any kind of financial crisis," said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. "The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."-Barney Frank


Rep. Maxine Waters (D., Calif.), speaking to Housing and Urban Development Secretary Mel Martinez:

Secretary Martinez, if it ain't broke, why do you want to fix it? Have the GSEs [government-sponsored enterprises] ever missed their housing goals?

I'll respond to the last 6 of your comments by just noting that you repeating all that nonsense over and over does not make it come true.
 
Here are the actual budget amounts for the beginning and end of Bush's terms in office (note the the 2009FY--i.e., Oct1 '08 to Sep30 '09--is the last Bush budget, not Obama's as some rightwingers like to say):
2002 2.0T
2009 3.5T
Here are the Obama budgets
2010 3.5T
2015 3.7T
source: US Federal Budget Definition - Spending Breakdown Deficit Debt Pie Chart

The increase over Bush's 8 years is 75% or roughly 9.4% per annum (the big increase in his 2009 budget was due almost entirely to the transfer to the budget from all the "off-budget" "emergency" appropriations for Iraq War spending over several years before he left office plus some of the TARP spending) . The increase over Obama's first 6 budgets is only 5.7% or about just under 1% per annum--at or even below in overall inflation rate during those years. So, clearly Obama has signed his name to budgets that have resulted in a much (MUCH) slower growth in spending than Bush. The budgeting process is a negotiating process between the executive and legislative branches so when a budget is finally passed and signed into law everyone involved either gets the blame for excess spending or credit for controlling it. I don't mind giving Congress half the credit for this reduced spending but they don't get it all, by any shot. BTW, since the slow recovery is largely due to the private sector failure (i.e., the banks who got made whole by TARP and QE with the expectation that they would use that money to pump into the economy by freeing up credit and did not do so, the fact that government spending was also kept very tight for the past 6 years and the republican "sequester" have certainly contributed to that sluggishness.
Oh cut it out. What do you take me for ? A Gruberite ? Spending has not been tight and there hasn't been any reduced spending. Forget 2009, that's when all the crazy Sh$t happened.
Bush was abig spender and Obama was even bigger.
Federal_Spending_Bush_Vs_Obama.webp

And as much as spending actually increased, it would have been way more of Barack " BIG GOVERNMENT" Obama had his way.

Obama sends Congress record $4.1T budget plan | Fox News
 
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