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One Nation, Under God

danarhea

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America's success has not been due to any one particular brand of theology, but of ALL faiths, which have been freely practiced for more than 200 years, since our forefathers had the widsom to realize that America is a nation under God, however people of various faiths choose to exercise their freedom to worship God.

America is a nation where, for the first time in world history, many different religions which had warred each other in Europe, resulting in the deaths of millions, lived side by side in peace here in America. Our forefathers recognized that God's grace had a big hand in the founding of our nation, and no matter how God was worshiped, God would be worshipped, and be worshiped according to each denomination's beliefs. The establishment clause of the First Amendment saw to that. America truly became a melting pot. As the author of the article states, America was not many religions under one roof, but one nation under God. It is this theme that has been a core of American thought throughout our history.

Something to think about as you listen to those who shout to the world from their self-erected pedestals how much more godly and moral they are than others. The threat today is the same one that led to the founding of America.

Here is the entire article.
 
Technocratic_Utilitarian said:
Which founding father stated our nation was Under God?

Most of them, according to this document:

 
Technocratic_Utilitarian said:
Which founding father stated our nation was Under God?
The Declaration of Independence declares that we have rights endowed by our creator.

I would say everyone whom signed it said that we are "under god".
 
"One Nation, Under God"

Not necessarily, if you catch my drift.......

Actually, I will cut with the crap.
As far as any facts show, THERE IS NO GOD.



Duke
 
vauge said:
The Declaration of Independence declares that we have rights endowed by our creator.

I would say everyone whom signed it said that we are "under god".

"Creator" is a very broad concept. It can mean a god or a person's mother.

Furthermore, the Declaration of Independence is just that, a declaration. It is not a law. When it came time to right the laws of the nation, the founders made it clear that religion and government were to remain separate as stated in the 1st Amendment.
 

First, if you study the history of the early days of America, you will plainly see that they were not referring to mothers, but God. So much for hair splitting based on a lack of knowledge. Now to the meat of my reply.

If you read the First Amendment, is says that there shall be no ESTABLISHMENT of religion. It does not say that people cannot worship however they see fit, whether that be a citizen or a leader.

Now, I agree that religion should not be forced into schools, as that would violate the Amendment. However, those who believe in a creator should have the right to hold their own meetings and other functions in a school, after school, since secular activities after school are also allowed. The left goes too far in restricting the right of people to worhship, and in that respect, I would say the religious right is correct in complaining that Christians are discriminated against to some degree.

Although the First Amendment does have an establishment clause, there is nothing that says the government can restrict the right to worship, only that worship cannot be forced upon citizens who are not religious.

Finally, your argument (actually, you are talking around the Q) does not mitigate in the least the fact that our forefathers were, in general, religious people, who felt that the creation of America was due to divine providence. If you also look at the early history of America, you will find that religious people comprised the vast majority of our leaders. Yes, I would stipulate that the term "under God" was very relevant and, considering the makeup of Amercia today, still is.
 
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Well, one important concept to note is that the Founding Fathers were overwhelmingly deist and followed a humanistic philosphy espoused during the Enlightenment. The "rights" alluded to by many of the Founding Fathers were determined via reason, at least according to Madison, Thomas Paine, and John Adams.

The Reference to God is merely the God of nature. The God of nature isn't a "God" as we refer to it.

However, it's clearly noted in history that the United States was not founded as a christian nation, and Thomas Jefferson himself stated that the principles and rights of man are not contingent on any religion, rather man's reason (The Virginia Statue for Religious Freedom).
 
danarhea said:
First, if you study the history of the early days of America, you will plainly see that they were not referring to mothers, but God. So much for hair splitting based on a lack of knowledge. Now to the meat of my reply.

If you state it as fact, prove it as fact. If it was meant to be a specific god, why does it not state that?


I never said any of the things that you are debating here. People can believe what they want to, the government cannot endorse it though. Putting words into posts only shows desperation.

As far as your ill-informed reference about after school activities, the Supreme Court has ruled that after school religious activities are Constitutional. (Good News Club v. Milford Central School.) You should probably know what you are talking about before you post.

Source: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3944/is_200107/ai_n8989323


There is no way to prove this. It is impossible for someone living today to know what someone believed in who lived 200 years ago.

Furthermore, the pledge did not exist when the country was founded. There are no historical documents, especially laws, at the time of the founding that state "under god". And still more, "considering the makeup of America today" means that you would have to acknowledge the fact that religion is becoming less and less prominent in this country. Non-religious people have doubled between 1990 and 2001. They are now at 14% (almost 30 million strong). The trend is expected to continue because the percentages of young Americans that are non-religious are even higher. Also, people are practicing religion less and less. So your theory that religion is very relevant in America today isn't so true.

Source:
http://www.gc.cuny.edu/faculty/research_briefs/aris/key_findings.htm
 
Duke said:
"One Nation, Under God"

Not necessarily, if you catch my drift.......

Actually, I will cut with the crap.
As far as any facts show, THERE IS NO GOD.



Duke


:roll:

So you say there is fact to disprove God? There is no fact to prove or disprove god. There WILL NEVER be fact. The only possible way to know is at death, and only 2 things can happen... Either u find out there is a god, or simply nothing.

Now i posted before, i am not a religious person. So dont go blabbering off that im a christian imbacil and blah blah blah blah. You show ignorance Duke. You proclaim a belief to be fact, that is pure ignorance. Now when i spoke of a God, i did not necessarily say a christian or muslim or budda or whatever it may be. So far as we know, if there is a god, we might not even found his religion... You just dont know!
 
Now to the main question...

In the above post, i posted i was not a religious man. We can all agree that History is important. History defines a culture, or atleast what a culture was! I like to look at the quote "One Nation under God" with more of a historical perspective, not religious. Though, this is up to interpretation! Therefore, I personally believe that we should in fact leave "One Nation, Under God" in the U.S. society, if its the pledge, money, or whatever it may be!
 

You are roughly as smart as an Oder Eater. I said that there are no facts, NONE WHATSOEVER, that implicate a god or higher power. I never said I
KNEW whether there is a god or not, that is impossible. There is as much evidence that a god exists as there is that invisible termites live in our brains and control our every move.
Read more carefully next time.


Duke
 


In US history, religion is important. However, although the pledge of allegiance may carry historical value, it is, above all, a pledge of allegiance. Hence, for the very obvious reasons, there should be no mention of God in the current pledge of allegiance. History, as is its nature, will be history.


Duke
 

To say there is no evidence to support that God exist, does not prove he doesnt. That is an invalid arguement! You specifically stated "As far as any facts show, THERE IS NO GOD." This is saying there is no God, plain and simple. If you did not mean this, dont be so vague in your argument, it wont get you anywhere! Youre about as smart as Canuck! AHAHAHA Got you there now didnt I! :rofl
 


Did you read my disclaimer, as far as any facts show? Not so plain and simple, eh? Do you even know what that means?
At least Canuck is smarter than you, so hey...


Duke
 
Duke said:
Did you read my disclaimer, as far as any facts show? Not so plain and simple, eh? Do you even know what that means?
At least Canuck is smarter than you, so hey...


Duke


AHAHAHAHA... I got to say.. that is a good one!

Explain these "facts"?
 
AK_Conservative said:
AHAHAHAHA... I got to say.. that is a good one!

Explain these "facts"?


I thought that you wouldn't understand.
Facts, or lack of thereof.
Ok, no facts support the theory of a god, or higher power, or whatever you want to call it, (this one goes out to Busta!!!!!!!) "creator force"
Hence, from the facts concerning the existence of a god, (as in, "none") we can come to the logical conclusion that there is no god, for there are no facts to support it.
For example, let's say there is a murder. Suspect #1 was seen on the crime scene, owned the murder weapon, his/her fingerprints and DNA were found on the victim, and 10 witnesses say that they saw him/her commit the crime. He/she declines to plead innocent of guilty. Can we really know whether Suspect #1 commited the crime? No. But, realistically, how do you think it is?
Get it?
I hope. :roll:


Duke
 


I understand what you said from the very beggining, but what is wrong is that you have no knowledge of logic. Here is why:

To say something that there is no proof it exists, therefor it does not exist is invalid! That is like saying, No one has seen Jane smoke, therefore she does not smoke. Jane can still be a smoker, just becuase no one seen her, does not disprove the argument! Your analogy of law is not a viable example. In our legal system, we believe your not guilty untill proven. Just believe you were not proved guilty, DOES NOT MEAN you didnt do the crime!

Another Argument pwned!
 
galenrox said:
Dude, I like you, so don't say crap like this.
What facts show that there is no God? Please, tell me even one fact that shows that there is no God, cause I am almost 100% sure that no such fact exists.


there is none, i already asked the question and he gave a half-assed answer. He said the fact was that there is no fact to prove gods existance and therefore that fact alone proves fact there is no god.. Kinda confusing but u get it?
 


exactly, if Duke would have taken a logic class in his life, he would understand that! I posted above a similar scenario and disproved his legal argument.. Look at it if you didnt already!
 

Not so much. The person proven guilty still goes to jail. I am not saying that god does not exist, per se, I am saying that as far as any facts have anything to do with it, there is no truth, from facts leading to the belief that a god exists. Of course, it is impossible to disprove it, along those lines, nothing can be proven or disproven, though.
Do you get it yet?


Duke
 


Everytime you post, you are changing what you say to make up for what you lack... LOGIC! You know, i stated the same thing as above you in my first post disagreeing with you, now you say this and agree with me on what you called me an Oder eater or some **** for! Stick to your argument and have some backbone man! But do flat out say God does not exist, like you so blatenly did, is illogical! Dont deny you didnt, becuase you did!
 


I know that absense of fact is nothing more than absense of fact, but a belief based on no facts is equally ridiculous. Read my above post to answer some of your questions.

Duke
 
Duke said:
I know that absense of fact is nothing more than absense of fact, but a belief based on no facts is equally ridiculous. Read my above post to answer some of your questions.

Duke


No, a BELIEF on no fact is not ridiculous. A belief is not a fact! Its a choice of faith (in this particular suject)! Now to say it is fact, then maybe so, but not a belief. That is why it is called a BELIEF! Durrr? You are combining two totally diferent words and giving them the same meaning!
 


I did not flat-out say god does not exist, I added my disclaimer. I am not changing what I said, I am elaborating. I am sticking to my argument, and if you read the whole thing, you will know where I am coming from, and my logic.


Duke
 
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