One again, my easy solution to the illegal problem!

independentusa · Aug 11, 2019

I have written this solution on this board several times but here I go again. You need to do two things. First have a national or state ID card for everyone paid for by the governments involved. Then you have a national thumb print data base. Finger readers are easy to use and are cheap and if the data base knows what the name of the person whose print they are looking for, quite accurate. This data base will not be allowed by law to be used by law enforcement for identification. SO, if you want a job, a bank account, buy or rent a house, buy or rent a car or even vote you will need to prove you are who you are and that you are a citizen by producing an ID and then your thumb print must be the same as on the data base. if not, you can do none of the above. Illegals will not be able to use fake ID's to get a job or housing and that will force them to return home without having to round them up or punish them in any way. It seems simple and after the initial expense should be cheap to maintain. So now, all of you out there give me hell about my idea, but you come up with something better if you do.

Individual · Aug 11, 2019

Interesting post as at the moment I am helping a friend install a card reader and software on his computer to use with his Belgian National ID card.
That would be a good start, but I also feel our immigration laws and citizenship rules need to be brought up to the 21st century.

Checkerboard Strangler · Aug 11, 2019

independentusa said:
I have written this solution on this board several times but here I go again. You need to do two things. First have a national or state ID card for everyone paid for by the governments involved. Then you have a national thumb print data base. Finger readers are easy to use and are cheap and if the data base knows what the name of the person whose print they are looking for, quite accurate. This data base will not be allowed by law to be used by law enforcement for identification. SO, if you want a job, a bank account, buy or rent a house, buy or rent a car or even vote you will need to prove you are who you are and that you are a citizen by producing an ID and then your thumb print must be the same as on the data base. if not, you can do none of the above. Illegals will not be able to use fake ID's to get a job or housing and that will force them to return home without having to round them up or punish them in any way. It seems simple and after the initial expense should be cheap to maintain. So now, all of you out there give me hell about my idea, but you come up with something better if you do.

All 50 states now have federally compliant RealID type state ID and driver licenses, ergo we already HAVE a "national ID card".
The only licenses and ID which are NOT RealID compliant are the few states that offer provisional driver licenses to illegals, which is actually a favor to the rest of us because it has drastically reduced uninsured motorist accidents where illegals would run away after crashing.

Therefore, if you're a legal resident or citizen and you need ID or a DL, you have a "national ID card" because it is federally compliant with RealID biometric requirements and documentation.

ttwtt78640 · Aug 12, 2019

Since even having a state strict voter ID requirement is taboo then I seriously doubt that a national ID requirement is going to fly.

HumblePi · Aug 12, 2019

The only real solution is to make those countries they're fleeing safe for them. Economical depression, gangs, murders, those things need to be resolved. But first, the US needs to set up a place inside each US embassy in those countries to accept applications for immigration right there in their own country. Then they don't have to travel to the US border to do that. Second, the US, Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras have to commence some serious discussions altogether. There needs to be encouragement by the US government for U.S. businesses to open new satellite locations in each of the three Central American countries. If people have jobs, they will have money, if they have money they can improve their lives. Lastly the 3 countries need to abide by US terms that they will receive funding from the US only if it's closely monitored and distributed by an appropriations committee comprised of representatives from the US and all 3 countries in question.

The only way to end illegal immigration is to improve the quality of life right where they are now.

Velvet Elvis · Aug 12, 2019

How to fix illegal immigration:

1) All children born in the United States take their mother's nationality.
2) Draconian penalties to those who employ illegal immigrants.
3) Denial of all social services except for life threatening emergency care.

Make it to where illegals do not want to come here, and the problem fixes itself. Those who enter the USA legally and by the law are exempt from these stipulations.

bullseyelqcs · Aug 12, 2019

Velvet Elvis said:
How to fix illegal immigration:

1) All children born in the United States take their mother's nationality.

I could almost get on board with that, save the situation of a US military member who marries a foreign national. Since they don't simply get citizenship through the marriage, that could cause more than a few problems. If there could be a provision for that, I would be completely on board.

2) Draconian penalties to those who employ illegal immigrants.

Absolutely agree with this one, up to and including forfeiture of their business.

3) Denial of all social services except for life threatening emergency care.

Again, totally on board with this sentiment.

Make it to where illegals do not want to come here, and the problem fixes itself. Those who enter the USA legally and by the law are exempt from these stipulations.

Well stated.

upsideguy · Aug 12, 2019

independentusa said:
I have written this solution on this board several times but here I go again. You need to do two things. First have a national or state ID card for everyone paid for by the governments involved. Then you have a national thumb print data base. Finger readers are easy to use and are cheap and if the data base knows what the name of the person whose print they are looking for, quite accurate. This data base will not be allowed by law to be used by law enforcement for identification. SO, if you want a job, a bank account, buy or rent a house, buy or rent a car or even vote you will need to prove you are who you are and that you are a citizen by producing an ID and then your thumb print must be the same as on the data base. if not, you can do none of the above. Illegals will not be able to use fake ID's to get a job or housing and that will force them to return home without having to round them up or punish them in any way. It seems simple and after the initial expense should be cheap to maintain. So now, all of you out there give me hell about my idea, but you come up with something better if you do.

Your papers please!

No, that isn't the way America works. We are better than that.

Just enforce the I-9 laws, streamline the immigration process and offer a path to citizenship for those already here. While you are at it, it would also be a good idea to re-establish aid to the Central American countries that the Trump administration pulled the aid from creating this current problem in the first place.

TheRepublican · Aug 12, 2019

independentusa said:
I have written this solution on this board several times but here I go again. You need to do two things. First have a national or state ID card for everyone paid for by the governments involved. Then you have a national thumb print data base. Finger readers are easy to use and are cheap and if the data base knows what the name of the person whose print they are looking for, quite accurate. This data base will not be allowed by law to be used by law enforcement for identification. SO, if you want a job, a bank account, buy or rent a house, buy or rent a car or even vote you will need to prove you are who you are and that you are a citizen by producing an ID and then your thumb print must be the same as on the data base. if not, you can do none of the above. Illegals will not be able to use fake ID's to get a job or housing and that will force them to return home without having to round them up or punish them in any way. It seems simple and after the initial expense should be cheap to maintain. So now, all of you out there give me hell about my idea, but you come up with something better if you do.

THIS IS A PREFECT IDEA TO DO BUT, We know that the democrats feel like they are not able to do it which is hogwash. The democrats are weak and the lost hope partly

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

independentusa · Aug 12, 2019

Checkerboard Strangler said:
All 50 states now have federally compliant RealID type state ID and driver licenses, ergo we already HAVE a "national ID card".
The only licenses and ID which are NOT RealID compliant are the few states that offer provisional driver licenses to illegals, which is actually a favor to the rest of us because it has drastically reduced uninsured motorist accidents where illegals would run away after crashing.

Therefore, if you're a legal resident or citizen and you need ID or a DL, you have a "national ID card" because it is federally compliant with RealID biometric requirements and documentation.

The problem is that no matter how well you make ID's, they can be fakes and are faked. In southern California there is a billion dollar industry that does just that. What they can not fake is the thumb print and that is what makes the plan more fool proof. The only problem is keeping the data base free from hackers.

HonestJoe · Aug 12, 2019

independentusa said:
I have written this solution on this board several times but here I go again. You need to do two things. First have a national or state ID card for everyone paid for by the governments involved. Then you have a national thumb print data base.

I think you’d find you’ll get lots of push back (of varying levels of rationality) from all directions on the idea of any kind of government-run national identity databases, especially one including biometric data. There is a reason it has never been proposed by anyone in high office.

independentusa said:
Finger readers are easy to use and are cheap and if the data base knows what the name of the person whose print they are looking for, quite accurate. This data base will not be allowed by law to be used by law enforcement for identification. SO, if you want a job, a bank account, buy or rent a house, buy or rent a car or even vote you will need to prove you are who you are and that you are a citizen by producing an ID and then your thumb print must be the same as on the data base. if not, you can do none of the above.

The hardware wouldn’t be that cheap, especially if it’s required for every individual business and private citizen responsible for any of the transactions you list. Anyway, the bigger cost would be the technical infrastructure required to manage the database and provide secure access to all the people who require it (but not to anyone who doesn’t). It’d also have to deal with a number of issues such as the growing number of on-line transactions, places/times with limited network connectivity, circumstances where a thumbprint will be unavailable (injury, disability, technical failure, legal non-citizens and visitors etc.). It’s technically viable but I think you underestimate the scale of the project.

independentusa said:
Illegals will not be able to use fake ID's to get a job or housing and that will force them to return home without having to round them up or punish them in any way.

I think such a system could be circumvented if people really wanted to. After all, employers are meant to confirm the status of all employees yet lots of illegal immigrants are able to find work one way or another. Illegal immigrants are already willing to take significant risks to avoid returning to their home country so this would just be another one for them to take. I don’t see it having a huge impact in practice, certainly not in balance with the costs and impacts on legal citizens, residents and visitors.

calamity · Aug 12, 2019

independentusa said:
I have written this solution on this board several times but here I go again. You need to do two things. First have a national or state ID card for everyone paid for by the governments involved. Then you have a national thumb print data base. Finger readers are easy to use and are cheap and if the data base knows what the name of the person whose print they are looking for, quite accurate. This data base will not be allowed by law to be used by law enforcement for identification. SO, if you want a job, a bank account, buy or rent a house, buy or rent a car or even vote you will need to prove you are who you are and that you are a citizen by producing an ID and then your thumb print must be the same as on the data base. if not, you can do none of the above. Illegals will not be able to use fake ID's to get a job or housing and that will force them to return home without having to round them up or punish them in any way. It seems simple and after the initial expense should be cheap to maintain. So now, all of you out there give me hell about my idea, but you come up with something better if you do.

I have a simpler solution: Jailtime for anyone hiring an illegal. Problem solved.

Checkerboard Strangler · Aug 12, 2019

independentusa said:
The problem is that no matter how well you make ID's, they can be fakes and are faked. In southern California there is a billion dollar industry that does just that. What they can not fake is the thumb print and that is what makes the plan more fool proof. The only problem is keeping the data base free from hackers.

They can't fake any of the biometrics in a RealID compliant ID card. That's why it was invented.
The days of going down to Alvarado Street and plunking down $150 for a fake driver's license are over.

I know, because I covered a story on that very thing back in the 1980's.
Back then I could have changed MY identity if I wanted to in a matter of hours.
Oh and, here's an interesting footnote.
Back in Minnesota in the 1970's there was a brief period when Ukrainian illegal immigrants were getting a lot of fake identities in Minneapolis.

The MPD Third Precinct busted a forgery ring doing exactly that.

ocean515 · Aug 12, 2019

Checkerboard Strangler said:
All 50 states now have federally compliant RealID type state ID and driver licenses, ergo we already HAVE a "national ID card".
The only licenses and ID which are NOT RealID compliant are the few states that offer provisional driver licenses to illegals, which is actually a favor to the rest of us because it has drastically reduced uninsured motorist accidents where illegals would run away after crashing.

Therefore, if you're a legal resident or citizen and you need ID or a DL, you have a "national ID card" because it is federally compliant with RealID biometric requirements and documentation.

So it would be best to never hire anyone who presents an ID that is not of the "RealID" type.

Doesn't clean up the stolen identity problem, but that would be a step in the right direction.

There is also the issue of legal citizens and residents who haven't gone through the additional effort of obtaining a "RealID".

In California, where they welcome illegal aliens with open arms, one has to go to the DMV and present a certified or original copy of specific documents to obtain one.

Given how such a requirement just to vote has been met with outrage by some, because it's apparently an impossible unreasonable task, this could be an issue.

independentusa · Aug 12, 2019

HonestJoe said:
I think you’d find you’ll get lots of push back (of varying levels of rationality) from all directions on the idea of any kind of government-run national identity databases, especially one including biometric data. There is a reason it has never been proposed by anyone in high office.

The hardware wouldn’t be that cheap, especially if it’s required for every individual business and private citizen responsible for any of the transactions you list. Anyway, the bigger cost would be the technical infrastructure required to manage the database and provide secure access to all the people who require it (but not to anyone who doesn’t). It’d also have to deal with a number of issues such as the growing number of on-line transactions, places/times with limited network connectivity, circumstances where a thumbprint will be unavailable (injury, disability, technical failure, legal non-citizens and visitors etc.). It’s technically viable but I think you underestimate the scale of the project.

I think such a system could be circumvented if people really wanted to. After all, employers are meant to confirm the status of all employees yet lots of illegal immigrants are able to find work one way or another. Illegal immigrants are already willing to take significant risks to avoid returning to their home country so this would just be another one for them to take. I don’t see it having a huge impact in practice, certainly not in balance with the costs and impacts on legal citizens, residents and visitors.

Actually the hardware is inexpensive. I worked in a hospital that had probably more than a dozen of the readers and that was over 15 years ago. And not everyone would need to have one. Someone would start a business doing the confirming identities for businesses and others.

independentusa · Aug 12, 2019

calamity said:
I have a simpler solution: Jailtime for anyone hiring an illegal. Problem solved.

I agree, but insure it is the boss and not some underling. CEO"S should be the first to go. Kind of rhymes.

Lovebug · Aug 12, 2019

Checkerboard Strangler said:
All 50 states now have federally compliant RealID type state ID and driver licenses, ergo we already HAVE a "national ID card".
The only licenses and ID which are NOT RealID compliant are the few states that offer provisional driver licenses to illegals, which is actually a favor to the rest of us because it has drastically reduced uninsured motorist accidents where illegals would run away after crashing.

Therefore, if you're a legal resident or citizen and you need ID or a DL, you have a "national ID card" because it is federally compliant with RealID biometric requirements and documentation.

Aside from the op turning this to an illegal issue, I have often thought that fingerprint ID is a great idea, helping to prevent id theft.

jonny5 · Aug 12, 2019

independentusa said:
I have written this solution on this board several times but here I go again. You need to do two things. First have a national or state ID card for everyone paid for by the governments involved. Then you have a national thumb print data base. Finger readers are easy to use and are cheap and if the data base knows what the name of the person whose print they are looking for, quite accurate. This data base will not be allowed by law to be used by law enforcement for identification. SO, if you want a job, a bank account, buy or rent a house, buy or rent a car or even vote you will need to prove you are who you are and that you are a citizen by producing an ID and then your thumb print must be the same as on the data base. if not, you can do none of the above. Illegals will not be able to use fake ID's to get a job or housing and that will force them to return home without having to round them up or punish them in any way. It seems simple and after the initial expense should be cheap to maintain. So now, all of you out there give me hell about my idea, but you come up with something better if you do.

That sounds like a police state which puts more regulation on US citizens, instead of just protecting the border and being more efficient with deportation. Keep people out in the first place and you dont have to police them.

HonestJoe · Aug 12, 2019

independentusa said:
Actually the hardware is inexpensive. I worked in a hospital that had probably more than a dozen of the readers and that was over 15 years ago.

As I said, the individual readers wouldn’t be the biggest cost, that would be the infrastructure and database management. Again, it’s technically viable but you’re underestimating the scale of the project you’re proposing.

independentusa said:
And not everyone would need to have one. Someone would start a business doing the confirming identities for businesses and others.

Only if the relevant law allowed for that and it was made profitable (therefore at someone else’s cost). You’d also have to account for the authorised, secured and effective communication of that validation from this business to the requestors. Again, theoretically doable one way or another but by no means simple and without complications.

If it were as easy and uncontroversial as you make out, why wouldn’t it have been done already? It’s always been in the interests of successive administrations to find a solution to this high profile problem.

mike2810 · Aug 12, 2019

calamity said:
I have a simpler solution: Jailtime for anyone hiring an illegal. Problem solved.

What if the employer did not know the person was an illegal? What if the person hired presented a SSN and ID that seemed to be ok?

Now if the employer knew the person was an illegal, I agree with you that they should be charged and punished if found guilty.

Checkerboard Strangler · Aug 12, 2019

Lovebug said:
Aside from the op turning this to an illegal issue, I have often thought that fingerprint ID is a great idea, helping to prevent id theft.

It's part of the biometrics in RealID.
Fingerprints ARE a form of biometrics.

Lovebug · Aug 12, 2019

Checkerboard Strangler said:
It's part of the biometrics in RealID.
Fingerprints ARE a form of biometrics.

Even our bank uses it.

gdgyva · Aug 12, 2019

HumblePi said:
The only real solution is to make those countries they're fleeing safe for them. Economical depression, gangs, murders, those things need to be resolved. But first, the US needs to set up a place inside each US embassy in those countries to accept applications for immigration right there in their own country. Then they don't have to travel to the US border to do that. Second, the US, Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras have to commence some serious discussions altogether. There needs to be encouragement by the US government for U.S. businesses to open new satellite locations in each of the three Central American countries. If people have jobs, they will have money, if they have money they can improve their lives. Lastly the 3 countries need to abide by US terms that they will receive funding from the US only if it's closely monitored and distributed by an appropriations committee comprised of representatives from the US and all 3 countries in question.

The only way to end illegal immigration is to improve the quality of life right where they are now.

so you want to fix the world

and after these places, where next?

how much are you willing to devote to this pet project of nation building?

ttwtt78640 · Aug 12, 2019

Lovebug said:
Aside from the op turning this to an illegal issue, I have often thought that fingerprint ID is a great idea, helping to prevent id theft.

Fingerprint and/or retinal scan is great provided that you have a scanner and access to the underlying database. It's much same idea as requiring entry of a PIN for a debit card transaction. An important difference, of course, being that you can't send someone else out to use your debit card by simply telling them your PIN.

gdgyva · Aug 12, 2019

Velvet Elvis said:
How to fix illegal immigration:

1) All children born in the United States take their mother's nationality.
2) Draconian penalties to those who employ illegal immigrants.
3) Denial of all social services except for life threatening emergency care.

Make it to where illegals do not want to come here, and the problem fixes itself. Those who enter the USA legally and by the law are exempt from these stipulations.

My wifes brother just had a small raid in his business in DC

They employ over 160 people

ICE took 3

All 3 had social security cards, and had proper ID's

so when you want to take away someone's business, lets make sure that someone actually did something wrong

His business was signed up for EVERIFY and they sent in all documentation...which is why i think the 3 were found out

the paperwork some of these people are getting is extremely good....and it can and does fool regular business people

so until we get a system that can identify a bad paper from a good one at time of hiring....lets make sure we not go draconian just yet

One again, my easy solution to the illegal problem!

independentusa

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Checkerboard Strangler

deepfreezefilms.bsky.social

ttwtt78640

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HumblePi

Velvet Elvis

bullseyelqcs

I'm a freaking unicorn!!

upsideguy

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TheRepublican

independentusa

HonestJoe

calamity

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ocean515

independentusa

independentusa

Lovebug

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jonny5

HonestJoe

mike2810

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Lovebug

Be humble and kind

gdgyva

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong

gdgyva

One again, my easy solution to the illegal problem!

deepfreezefilms.bsky.social

Sometimes wrong

I'm a freaking unicorn!!

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deepfreezefilms.bsky.social

Be humble and kind

deepfreezefilms.bsky.social

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