On the issue of raising the minimum wage

[James972]

you need to go find data to support your diagnosis.

What data do you need to demonstrate that West Germany did better than East Germany? Are you ignorant of data that shows Florida doing better than Cuba or that Formosa did better than Red China or that Obama was only president not to have one year of 3% growth?

 

[James972]

No sane person will believe they all have the same effect in spite of being potentially vastly different.

liberal programs were all made illegal by Constitution because our genius founders studied all of human history and learned that govt monopoly programs interfere with individual liberty! Welcome to your first lesson in American History!


Thomas Jefferson:I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.

 

[Nickyjo]

of course they are wrong which is why they have a much lower standard of living. They should copy us. 1+1=2

Scandinavia has a lower standard of living than the US? By what standards? They have worse income distribution and more crime than we do. Must have missed that. Thy don't have the great variety of food we do, but if they have it so bad, why are they not in the streets demanding "Take away our health care!", and "Give us the US system before Obamacare!" I have been to Europe. Haven't seen those signs.

I take it you would get rid of all their health care systems, plus Medicare, Medicaid, and the ACA here. How is that campaign going?

 

[James972]

Scandinavia has a lower standard of living than the US?

Scandinavia is part of Europe; they live at about 60% of our per capita GDP!! You seem incapable of learning. I have taught you this 23 times now.

The Poor in the US Are Richer than the Middle Class in Much of Europe
The Poor in the US Are Richer than the Middle Class in Much of Europe | Mises Wire
Oct 16, 2015 - In relation to the cost of living, the median income in the US is much ... Social benefits included, Americans have higher incomes at both the ...

 

[Nickyjo]

obviously the solution is capitalism!. Imagine if automobiles we provided to people the way health care is. You seem incapable of learning. I have taught you this 23 times now. Shall we go for 24?

Capitalism doesn't exist. Never has in any pure form. There has always been a mix of capitalism and (dare I say it?) socialism (eek!) in the US and elsewhere. Think of the Homestead Act and other land grants, plus the cavalry subsidizing settlers by killing the Indians or moving them out of the way. Or the gifts of land to the railroads. The right to incorporate. Government arresting and sometimes shooting strikers. We are all socialists and capitalists, except in different contexts.

If you want to see capitalism visit a flea market. That's about it these days.

 

[Nickyjo]

Scandinavia is part of Europe; they live at about 60% of our per capita GDP!! You seem incapable of learning. I have taught you this 23 times now.

The Poor in the US Are Richer than the Middle Class in Much of Europe
The Poor in the US Are Richer than the Middle Class in Much of Europe | Mises Wire
Oct 16, 2015 - In relation to the cost of living, the median income in the US is much ... Social benefits included, Americans have higher incomes at both the ...

One does not measure quality of life by income alone. It's income distribution, overall health indices, quality and availability of education, crime rates, et al. Plus if we are doing so much better, why are they not imitating us? Why are they not demanding the removal of worker protections they have, an end to government health care, no free tuition, etc.? And on the other hand, why have both parties in the US endorsed some sort of government health care system?

The arc of history, as Obama suggested in another context, bends towards more social justice, which is why we have women voting, no kids in factories, min. wage and other worker protections, and civil rights laws. We are far better off now than we were 120 years ago. Capitalist ingenuity, productivity, unions and government action/regulation have all made that possible. You are free to argue that things were better when my mom used to have to take garment work home with her from the factory, to sew at nights after putting in a full day's work, but it will be a tough sell. We like the doses of socialism present in our society, even though we don't dare call it that.

 

[TheEconomist]

What data do you need to demonstrate that West Germany did better than East Germany?

You need a definition of "better" than lends itself to measurement, then observations regarding the variables you picked to make the comparison.

I never made the argument East Germany performed better than West Germany. As a matter of fact, I never looked into that kind of issue. However, there is an enormous difference between a centrally planned economy and someone who argue about, say, transfers dedicated to pay health care.

Are you ignorant of data that shows Florida doing better than Cuba or that Formosa did better than Red China or that Obama was only president not to have one year of 3% growth?

I never looked at data regarding Florida, Cuba or Formosa. Which variable did you choose, for which period and how did you aggregate them into a sort of index that allows you to say X is better than Y?

Obama also served in the worst recession since the 1930s.

He got into office in january 2008, so he can't be blamed for financial institutions racking up on credit derivatives during the whole 2000s, nor for home buyers signing variable interest rate mortgages when the Federal Reserve decided against all common sense to lower its rate before making it soar back up. That's 2003-2006, by the way, under President Bush at the Whitehouse and Allan Greenspan's tenure at Federal Reserve. Credit delinquancy rates rose before Obama even won the election, let alone did anything.

But if you want to play like a moron with data (which you probably didn't check), if you look at Republican vs Democrat presidency, the average growth rate of real GDP was higher under Democrat presidents over the last 70 years. The reason is simple: Democrats mostly got the Whitehouse at the right time (which is, in the more distant past). Once you control for that trending effect, nothing is left and who controls the Whitehouse has no statistically significant impact on real GDP growth in the US.


If you're going to make comparisons, compare apples with apples and run the appropriate regressions on actual data or draw your conclusions from people who did. "Cuba grows slower than Florida, hence all welfare programs suck" is an absurdly stupid statement to make.

 

[TheEconomist]

When I see FDR prolonging Depression for 16 years and causing a world war I am observing a failure. Is that really over your head??

You do not observe a cause, you infer a cause. You cannot observe that FDR prolonged the depression or cause a world war. What you observe are policy choices and events. To make the statement "FDR prolonged the depression for 16 years and cased a world war," you need to impose ASSUMPTIONS about how policy choices and events are related.

How is this really over your head? What are you not following?

Besides, the US got into the war after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. The war was already in place in Europe since 3 years and it begun with Nazi Germany invading neighboring countries. How can you cogently tie FDR's foreign policy to this, exactly? He didn't force Hitler to attack anyone and the US didn't jump into the conflict until they were victims of an attack.

Some people want to talk, but I realize you're just a troll.

 

[James972]

Capitalism doesn't exist. Never has in any pure form.

nobody said capitalism or communism existed in its pure form. You have learned that 25 times!!!!!

 

[James972]

Plus if we are doing so much better, why are they not imitating us?

same reason HItler Stalin Mao Tojo Castro did not imitate us: they were stupid!!!!

 

[James972]

And on the other hand, why have both parties in the US endorsed some sort of government health care system?

look at all of human history. Humans were nearly always mistaken. Are you a sheeple or a free man??? Then learn to think for yourself rather than to be led around by the nose.

 

[James972]

We like the doses of socialism present in our society, even though we don't dare call it that.

maybe because we see how it depresses Europe and just killed 120 million in USSR and China. China just switched to Republican capitalism and thus prevented another 60 million from starving to death. Are you fascinated with dying people??

 

[James972]

However, there is an enormous difference between a centrally planned economy and someone who argue about, say, transfers dedicated to pay health care.
.

Not at all which is why our genius, freedom loving founders made both illegal in the Constitution. Welcome to your first lesson in American History!


Thomas Jefferson: "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

 

[James972]

I never looked at data regarding Florida, Cuba or Formosa. Which variable did you choose, for which period and how did you aggregate them into a sort of index that allows you to say X is better than Y?
.

See why we say liberalism is based in pure ignorance? An adult liberal will still need to learn that Florida is far richer than Cuba, that Cuba is a concentration camp for a good reason.

 

[James972]

Obama also served in the worst recession since the 1930s.
.

All the better for a sharp V shaped recovery with one year of 5-10% growth. China switched from libsocialism to Republican capitalism to get decades of 10% growth. Do you understand?

 

[James972]

He got into office in january 2008, so he can't be blamed for financial institutions.

dear, nobody said FDR and Obama started Depression or Great Recession, just that they prolonged them with idiotic libsocialist policies even after libsocialism had just starved 120 million to death and even after Krugman described modestly socialist European economics as having Eurosclerosis and chronic 10% unemployment. Now do you understand?

 

[James972]

But if you want to play like a moron with data (which you probably didn't check), if you look at Republican vs Democrat presidency, the average growth rate of real GDP was higher under Democrat presidents over the last 70 years..

A child knows that a president does not control the economy, that economy moves in long cycles, and FDR/Obama inherited Depression/Recession, Clinton inherited full recovery from Bush, etc etc . 1+1=2

 

[James972]

"Cuba grows slower than Florida, hence all welfare programs suck" is an absurdly stupid statement to make.

I mentioned many other countries too from full communist to modestly socialist Europe. Did you forget?? Why not re read for comprehension??

 

[Nickyjo]

same reason HItler Stalin Mao Tojo Castro did not imitate us: they were stupid!!!!

So you look Scandinavia, Holland, the UK, France, Germany, etc. with Hitler and Stalin. Yeah, you must be a troll.

 

[Nickyjo]

look at all of human history. Humans were nearly always mistaken. Are you a sheeple or a free man??? Then learn to think for yourself rather than to be led around by the nose.

I am a free man, I just agree with people different from those who you agree with. Who are they anyway?

 

[Nickyjo]

maybe because we see how it depresses Europe and just killed 120 million in USSR and China. China just switched to Republican capitalism and thus prevented another 60 million from starving to death. Are you fascinated with dying people??

The solution is out there for you: work to get rid of everything socialist from the Post Office to the interstate to Medicare to the armed forces to the fire department.

Hint: China is different than Sweden.

 

[James972]

The solution is out there for you: work to get rid of everything socialist from the Post Office to the interstate to Medicare to the armed forces to the fire department.

Obviously that is what conservatives since our founders have been working to do. And?????????

 

[James972]

Hint: China is different than Sweden.

If I said China was the same as China I'll pay you $10,000? Bet or run away with your liberal tail between your legs!!

 

[Nickyjo]

Obviously that is what conservatives since our founders have been working to do. And?????????

... they have failed miserably.

 

[James972]

... they have failed miserably.

yes freedom and liberty has been very rare in human history, but when Jefferson created it in 1776 human history was transformed. BUt now libcommies are killing it i the name of helping the poor!


Thomas Jefferson:
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.