Ohio House passes bill allowing student answers to be scientifically wrong due to religion

[ocean515]

I live in Ohio. It has been widely discussed. There seem to be only a few people who support it and many people, including Christians who are very opposed to it.

This is another attempt for the GOP to pander to the evangelicals ahead of the 2016 elections because the politicians are scared of the blowback of their support of Trump.

Thanks for sharing your personal thoughts. I'll stick to the facts.

I know Progs are triggered by every dog whistle, so I'll leave Progressives to their training.

 

[ocean515]

So you admit that a teacher can not "penalize" a students work based on religious content of a student's work. I did leave out "reward" because that is not in question. The question is that if a student's work,i.e. answers are based on his religion, the teacher can not penalize him. Meaning, a student can not be penalized if he answers incorrectly as long as his answers are based on his religion. Is there any other way to interpret the law?

You are wrong. The Legislation does not state anything similar to what you wrote.

Why are radicals so intent on lies and distortions?

Read the legislation, not the fake news manufactured for a target audience.

 

[Drawdown]

Religious beliefs based on emotions aren't equal to empirical facts. They never were.

What possible marginalization are you referring to? The religious and secular rights of others are not dependant on the approval of illogical evangelical Christians in the US. To allow Christian conservatives the ability to reject facts in public school and still get equal credit as those who study is asinine. Ohio high school diplomas won't be worth the paper that they are printed on if this happens, and graduates will be rejected from the better colleges because of it.

Then don't mandate science as a required course. Otherwise, the law is the law.

 

[snakestretcher]

Then don't mandate science as a required course. Otherwise, the law is the law.

Keep religious indoctrination out of schools and in churches, safely away from normal people. Allow kids to make up their own minds what they choose to believe when they are intellectually mature enough to make reasoned and rational decisions about what they choose to believe or otherwise.

 

[VanceMack]

House Bill 164 | The Ohio Legislature

You can actually read it for yourself. Its not hat big a deal. All the Bill does is allow for freedom of expression.

If a science teacher asks "what is the predominant scientific theory regarding the creation of the known universe and explain" the correct answer would still be "The Big Bang theory". If however ina classroom the science teacher asks "what do you think about the creation of the known universe and someone responds with "I believe the universe was created by design by a Creator" there would be allowed a discussion without penalty.

The bill allows for ALL different religious groups to have a prayer at school. It allows extracurricular groups to be formed wit a religious background.

Beyond that...relax.

 

[Lisa]

Then don't mandate science as a required course. Otherwise, the law is the law.

Science courses are mandated as part of a K-12 diploma. They need to keep their mythology out of public schools. They can believe what they want but their religious beliefs do not permit them to reject facts in public school, to define the rights of others via their beliefs or dumb down the curriculum of others because they refuse to enter the 21st century. Is it so hard for them to just go through the motions of learning if they disagree with the concepts being taught? If they have a problem with that then accept the F grades or go to a private religious school. They have the option to send their precious kidlets to a Christian madrassa is they have a problem with empirical facts. Do these people understand that they will not be able to get into higher education and the employer will be loathed to employ people who aren't educated to a minimum level to function in modern society? These same people have a hard time dealing with others who aren't members of their church on an equal basis, so they are drastically limiting their life by their evangelical religious ideas.


I'd say the very same to a person of any religious belief who sought to inject their religious beliefs into public school as facts, so don't bother replying with the persecuted Christian nonsense.

 

[Lisa]

House Bill 164 | The Ohio Legislature

You can actually read it for yourself. Its not hat big a deal. All the Bill does is allow for freedom of expression.

If a science teacher asks "what is the predominant scientific theory regarding the creation of the known universe and explain" the correct answer would still be "The Big Bang theory". If however in a classroom the science teacher asks "what do you think about the creation of the known universe and someone responds with "I believe the universe was created by design by a Creator" there would be allowed a discussion without penalty.

The bill allows for ALL different religious groups to have a prayer at school. It allows extracurricular groups to be formed wit a religious background.

Beyond that...relax.

That religious expression is already guaranteed by the religious and free speech clauses of the First Amendment. All religious groups already have the right to pray voluntarily among themselves. However, they cannot cajole others to take part in their religious expression.

Their statements in classroom are not subject to their ideas. If they would say that the earth was created by a religious creaor their argument would be subject to the same response as flat earthers and anti-vaxxers. Prove it! They would also be laughed at by their fellow classmates as well they should.

If this nonsense passes we'll see what a judge thinks when it is subject to judicial review.

 

[SoCal]

A Christian parent could make the same argument in reverse. They pay taxes as well. If most of the families which go to the school are Christian, then it seems to me it's just democracy in action.

The curriculum for a public school is based on politics. When decisions are made by politics, the politically powerful tend to get their way. In this case the religious people have more political pull than the atheists, so they win. Politics is always zero sum.

Note that under capitalism, schools cater to specific markets. They would get to send their kids to a Christian school, and you would get to send your kids to a secular school. You both get what you want.

Public funded schools have no business selling religion in the place of actual science...

 

[Lisa]

Public funded schools have no business selling religion in the place of actual science...

Public schools have no business injecting religious belief into the classroom as part of the curriculum. They are to teach empirical facts.

 

[Mashmont]

I cannot believe the partisan idiocy that is coming from Columbus in the past week. The state legislature wants to allow public school students to be permited to cite their religious beliefs in classes and not be graded as wrong. If this passes any public school diploma will be worthless because they are allowing religious students to reject facts and instead write "God did it" as an answer and not be marked wrong. This is claimed to be an act of religious freedom but we can see that the GOP in Ohio is desperate to pander to religious conservatives to get them to vote Republican next year.


I hated John Kasich but he is looking positively rational and pragmatic compared to this fundamentalist religious idiocy which includes the recent abortion bill would include the death penalty for doctors for performing abortions.

Ohio House passes bill allowing student answers to be scientifically wrong due to religion | WKRC

So? The public schools allow students to be scientifically wrong on the climate change hoax due to Marxism. I don't see the difference here.

 

[Mashmont]

Public schools have no business injecting religious belief into the classroom as part of the curriculum. They are to teach empirical facts.

Climate change is nowhere near an 'empirical fact'. You stepped in way over your head on this one, sister.

 

[Lisa]

So? The public schools allow students to be scientifically wrong on the climate change hoax due to Marxism. I don't see the difference here.

You have yet to prove that global climate change brought on t by the activity of man is wrong, despite the fact that you may read and agree with denialist blogs.

If you don't like my posts then maybe you could pray about that I stop.

 

[Lisa]

Climate change is nowhere near an 'empirical fact'. You stepped in way over your head on this one, sister.

Denial isn't a river in Egypt.

Climate Science | Union of Concerned Scientists

 

[Lisa]

I remember their extreme anti-abortion bill too.. i called my rep and he was a bit baffled about it. third world country status yeehaw?

The new anti-abortion law is so pro-life that they will kill Drs in response. How can they not see the absolute hypocrisy of their stance?

These people also oppose birth control and sex education. They aren't pro-life in the least because this is just the first step in their Mosaic theocratic plans. It is the Christian equivalent of Sharia law and ISIL, The supporters of these ideas should be treated in just the same way as we do ISIL and the Taliban.

 

[bomberfox]

So? The public schools allow students to be scientifically wrong on the climate change hoax due to Marxism. I don't see the difference here.

Marxism has nothing to do with climate science. You are making an absolute fool out of yourself. Tell me, what is marxism?

 

[VanceMack]

That religious expression is already guaranteed by the religious and free speech clauses of the First Amendment. All religious groups already have the right to pray voluntarily among themselves. However, they cannot cajole others to take part in their religious expression.

Their statements in classroom are not subject to their ideas. If they would say that the earth was created by a religious creaor their argument would be subject to the same response as flat earthers and anti-vaxxers. Prove it! They would also be laughed at by their fellow classmates as well they should.

If this nonsense passes we'll see what a judge thinks when it is subject to judicial review.

I actually read the text. it doenst allow people to give wrong answers to test questions. It allows for theoretical discussion without penalty. You are wetting yourself over nothing.

Look...20 years ago, I had a great discussion with one of my kids about the importance of participation in class and understanding how to take tests. Her science teacher at the time was teaching what we know to be outdated and incorrect evolution theory involving man evolving from monkeys. Now...aside from the fact that his theoretical approach was simply wrong, he also did not allow for the belief system of those that believe in a God and Creation and didnt do a very good job of what most reasonable people would do as instructors of 12 year olds...explain to them that theirs was a religious belief that they were free to hold and discuss with their parents, and the class discussion was on the theory of evolution and thats what they would be graded on. My counsel to her was simply to listen, learn, develop understanding, think for herself, get good grades on the test. ALL THAT THIS LEGISLATION WOULD DO would be to allow for DISCUSSION without penalty...AND for the teacher to still ask graded questions on the current scientific theory. If someone give an answer like "E- Its all wrong because God made them" then they would still get the question wrong.

 

[Lisa]

I actually read the text. it doenst allow people to give wrong answers to test questions. It allows for theoretical discussion without penalty. You are wetting yourself over nothing.

Look...20 years ago, I had a great discussion with one of my kids about the importance of participation in class and understanding how to take tests. Her science teacher at the time was teaching what we know to be outdated and incorrect evolution theory involving man evolving from monkeys. Now...aside from the fact that his theoretical approach was simply wrong, he also did not allow for the belief system of those that believe in a God and Creation and didnt do a very good job of what most reasonable people would do as instructors of 12 year olds...explain to them that theirs was a religious belief that they were free to hold and discuss with their parents, and the class discussion was on the theory of evolution and thats what they would be graded on. My counsel to her was simply to listen, learn, develop understanding, think for herself, get good grades on the test. ALL THAT THIS LEGISLATION WOULD DO would be to allow for DISCUSSION without penalty...AND for the teacher to still ask graded questions on the current scientific theory. If someone answer "E- Its all wrong because God made them" then they would still get the question wrong.

Man did evolve from lower primates. That is a proven fact

Creationism/Intelligent Design is a religious belief with nothing empirical to support it. It is purely a religious belief and it has no place in a science classroom.

 

[Mashmont]

You have yet to prove that global climate change brought on t by the activity of man is wrong, despite the fact that you may read and agree with denialist blogs.

If you don't like my posts then maybe you could pray about that I stop.

The part that is wrong is that they are predictions. Predictions cannot be fact. These are no more predictable than the next spin of the roulette wheel.

 

[Mashmont]

I cannot believe the partisan idiocy that is coming from Columbus in the past week. The state legislature wants to allow public school students to be permited to cite their religious beliefs in classes and not be graded as wrong. If this passes any public school diploma will be worthless because they are allowing religious students to reject facts and instead write "God did it" as an answer and not be marked wrong. This is claimed to be an act of religious freedom but we can see that the GOP in Ohio is desperate to pander to religious conservatives to get them to vote Republican next year.


I hated John Kasich but he is looking positively rational and pragmatic compared to this fundamentalist religious idiocy which includes the recent abortion bill would include the death penalty for doctors for performing abortions.

Ohio House passes bill allowing student answers to be scientifically wrong due to religion | WKRC

Are they teaching there are three genders in the atheist public schools? If so, they ought to be shut down for teaching lies.

 

[Lisa]

The part that is wrong is that they are predictions. Predictions cannot be fact. These are no more predictable than the next spin of the roulette wheel.

Statistics,.......................you don't understand it.

 

[JustHanging]

I actually read the text. it doenst allow people to give wrong answers to test questions. It allows for theoretical discussion without penalty. You are wetting yourself over nothing.

Look...20 years ago, I had a great discussion with one of my kids about the importance of participation in class and understanding how to take tests. Her science teacher at the time was teaching what we know to be outdated and incorrect evolution theory involving man evolving from monkeys. Now...aside from the fact that his theoretical approach was simply wrong, he also did not allow for the belief system of those that believe in a God and Creation and didnt do a very good job of what most reasonable people would do as instructors of 12 year olds...explain to them that theirs was a religious belief that they were free to hold and discuss with their parents, and the class discussion was on the theory of evolution and thats what they would be graded on. My counsel to her was simply to listen, learn, develop understanding, think for herself, get good grades on the test. ALL THAT THIS LEGISLATION WOULD DO would be to allow for DISCUSSION without penalty...AND for the teacher to still ask graded questions on the current scientific theory. If someone give an answer like "E- Its all wrong because God made them" then they would still get the question wrong.

So you think it's a good use of science class time to discuss things from the bible? So that means discussing creationism, and flat earth theory. And discussing how stars might just be tiny little lights that will fall to earth one day. And that the flat earth is covered by the firmament, a bubble of water. Yeah, that all sounds like a really smart way to spend valuable science class time.


No wonder the American public education system is such a failure, they're spending valuable science classroom time discussing ancient myths. Maybe if they spent more time studying science, they would be doing better? SMH, no wonder 1/3 of the country looks up intellectually to an idiot like Trump. (or moron, depending on which top Trump aide you talk to.)

Evolution Vs. Creationism: Study Reveals Public School Science Lagging | HuffPost
Research from two Penn State professors reveals American students may be lagging behind in their knowledge of evolution because teachers are unprepared or unwilling to teach it. Some teachers advocate creationism, while others are afraid to address the topic for fear of controversy.
...
At the opposite extreme, 13 percent of teachers explicitly endorse creationism or intelligent design, and spend at least on hour of class time presenting it in a positive light. An additional 5 percent reported that they support creationism in passing or when answering students’ questions.

The remaining fraction of teachers, who Berkman and Plutzer dub the “cautious 60 percent,” avoids choosing sides. Often these teachers have not taken courses in evolutionary biology and lack confidence in their ability to answer questions from skeptical or hostile students and parents.

 

[VanceMack]

Man did evolve from lower primates. That is a proven fact

Creationism/Intelligent Design is a religious belief with nothing empirical to support it. It is purely a religious belief and it has no place in a science classroom.

So ignoring all the facts, what you are really saying is you hate religion. At its core, thats all that is driving you.

 

[VanceMack]

So you think it's a good use of science class time to discuss things from the bible? So that means discussing creationism, and flat earth theory. And discussing how stars might just be tiny little lights that will fall to earth one day. And that the flat earth is covered by the firmament, a bubble of water. Yeah, that all sounds like a really smart way to spend valuable science class time.


No wonder the American public education system is such a failure, they're spending valuable science classroom time discussing ancient myths. Maybe if they spent more time studying science, they would be doing better? SMH, no wonder 1/3 of the country looks up intellectually to an idiot like Trump. (or moron, depending on which top Trump aide you talk to.)

Evolution Vs. Creationism: Study Reveals Public School Science Lagging | HuffPost
Research from two Penn State professors reveals American students may be lagging behind in their knowledge of evolution because teachers are unprepared or unwilling to teach it. Some teachers advocate creationism, while others are afraid to address the topic for fear of controversy.
...
At the opposite extreme, 13 percent of teachers explicitly endorse creationism or intelligent design, and spend at least on hour of class time presenting it in a positive light. An additional 5 percent reported that they support creationism in passing or when answering students’ questions.

The remaining fraction of teachers, who Berkman and Plutzer dub the “cautious 60 percent,” avoids choosing sides. Often these teachers have not taken courses in evolutionary biology and lack confidence in their ability to answer questions from skeptical or hostile students and parents.

Not sure why you folk struggle with reading comprehension so much.

Oh...wait...I am sure. You are driven by your irrational hatred of religion and that causes you to see things not written. Because...well...you hate religion.

 

[Lisa]

So ignoring all the facts, what you are really saying is you hate religion. At its core, that's all that is driving you.

I don't care about religion as long as it is kept out of any connection with the government or taxpayer dollars. The strict separation of church and state must be obeyed with no exceptions because I have equal religious rights, and my secular rights do not come with the approval of your god or any of the 2000+ other gods that someone has imagined. Public schools are for learning facts and not a breeding ground or a recruitment opportunity for any religion.

You can worship a rusty Edsel hubcap, and 3 broken Star wars Pez dispensers if you want to. All I demand is that just don't make me live by your myths, tell you its logical or pay for it and I could care less who or what you pray to.

 

[Harshaw]

I live in Ohio. It has been widely discussed. There seem to be only a few people who support it and many people, including Christians who are very opposed to it.

This is another attempt for the GOP to pander to the evangelicals ahead of the 2016 elections because the politicians are scared of the blowback of their support of Trump.

All of that may be true, but the bill still doesn't say what the article says it does.