Of 'paper' money and debt.

[nvflash]

I figured I may as well put this here, because while true, it will end up here anyways.

To my liberal friends, if I have any:

Your eduction means nothing if you do not understand history and that you can not understand if you do not understand history in the context of money. It is money that makes people do what they do, and the lack of it.

Paper money, and the ones and zeros in bank computers are nothing but proof of debt, it has value because we all need it to pay off the debt that created it. Even when at times money was backed by specie banks would still create more banknotes than they had coin on deposit to back it.

It is the great evolution over the centuries from specie as money to proof of debt backed by nothing more than the debt that created it that has allowed us to make great technical advancements, medical advancements, and just all manner of social and civil advancements at the pace we have over the last 200 years of mankind, but with it came a great many problems. Fore man is basically unchanged over the last 200 years of evolution, our base instincts are relatively unchanged.

Each advancement forever changed the world we live in, to the point we have become a threat to all life on the one and only known planet that can support biological life.

Specie one may think is something of barbarians, digging rocks out of the ground and using those as money, how absurd.

Specie had a natural metering effect on mankind, all our advances came slow, when we were ready to deal with the repercussions of them, until we started using debt as money. on a world wide bases.

Now our advancements have come at such a pace that our social and civil systems and even our biological ecosystem can not keep up with the pace of growth.

Some say this world is overpopulated, and if that is the case, that case was caused by money as proof of debt( paper money ).

Call me all the derogatory names you may like, but you will not be able to solve this world's problems as long as we continue to use debt and money and expand that debt exponentially on a finite world.

Those heavy metals born in stars are 'God's' money, we are linked to it for our servival and so is this world.

You can't solve anything until you solve this.

 

[Loulit01]

I figured I may as well put this here, because while true, it will end up here anyways.

To my liberal friends, if I have any:

Your eduction means nothing if you do not understand history and that you can not understand if you do not understand history in the context of money. It is money that makes people do what they do, and the lack of it.

Paper money, and the ones and zeros in bank computers are nothing but proof of debt, it has value because we all need it to pay off the debt that created it. Even when at times money was backed by specie banks would still create more banknotes than they had coin on deposit to back it.

It is the great evolution over the centuries from specie as money to proof of debt backed by nothing more than the debt that created it that has allowed us to make great technical advancements, medical advancements, and just all manner of social and civil advancements at the pace we have over the last 200 years of mankind, but with it came a great many problems. Fore man is basically unchanged over the last 200 years of evolution, our base instincts are relatively unchanged.

Each advancement forever changed the world we live in, to the point we have become a threat to all life on the one and only known planet that can support biological life.

Specie one may think is something of barbarians, digging rocks out of the ground and using those as money, how absurd.

Specie had a natural metering effect on mankind, all our advances came slow, when we were ready to deal with the repercussions of them, until we started using debt as money. on a world wide bases.

Now our advancements have come at such a pace that our social and civil systems and even our biological ecosystem can not keep up with the pace of growth.

Some say this world is overpopulated, and if that is the case, that case was caused by money as proof of debt( paper money ).

Call me all the derogatory names you may like, but you will not be able to solve this world's problems as long as we continue to use debt and money and expand that debt exponentially on a finite world.

Those heavy metals born in stars are 'God's' money, we are linked to it for our servival and so is this world.

You can't solve anything until you solve this.

You want to go back to the gold standard? It's impossible. How ill you convert our trillions in debt? There isn't enough gold on the planet. Get a grip.

 

[nvflash]

You want to go back to the gold standard? It's impossible. How ill you convert our trillions in debt? There isn't enough gold on the planet. Get a grip.

That is the issue isn't it, how to get back to specie without imploding the world's economic systems and starving 90% of the people on the planet?

I told you, you can't solve any problem until you solve this one, and I never said I could solve it.

It's a problem that is going to solve itself pretty soon, but the catch is 90% of the people are going to starve to death in the process, and it's really up to the elites to solve, not us, we just got to make sure we are not part of the 90% that starves to death when it happens.

That's the problem with 10% of the people owning 90% of everything of value.( LAND ).

Can't grow food without land, fresh water, and good soil.

Whenever it does come, the elites will just start the whole process over again anyway. Round and round the wheel goes as they profit from every turn of it and meter out our lives to us.

They have enslaved us in a debt so large it can never be paid, and we owe it to them anyways. We worked our lives to produce the very chains that enslaved us, and thank our masters while they whip us.

 

[mrjurrs]

I figured I may as well put this here, because while true, it will end up here anyways.

To my liberal friends, if I have any:

Your eduction means nothing if you do not understand history and that you can not understand if you do not understand history in the context of money. It is money that makes people do what they do, and the lack of it.

Paper money, and the ones and zeros in bank computers are nothing but proof of debt, it has value because we all need it to pay off the debt that created it. Even when at times money was backed by specie banks would still create more banknotes than they had coin on deposit to back it.

It is the great evolution over the centuries from specie as money to proof of debt backed by nothing more than the debt that created it that has allowed us to make great technical advancements, medical advancements, and just all manner of social and civil advancements at the pace we have over the last 200 years of mankind, but with it came a great many problems. Fore man is basically unchanged over the last 200 years of evolution, our base instincts are relatively unchanged.

Each advancement forever changed the world we live in, to the point we have become a threat to all life on the one and only known planet that can support biological life.

Specie one may think is something of barbarians, digging rocks out of the ground and using those as money, how absurd.

Specie had a natural metering effect on mankind, all our advances came slow, when we were ready to deal with the repercussions of them, until we started using debt as money. on a world wide bases.

Now our advancements have come at such a pace that our social and civil systems and even our biological ecosystem can not keep up with the pace of growth.

Some say this world is overpopulated, and if that is the case, that case was caused by money as proof of debt( paper money ).

Call me all the derogatory names you may like, but you will not be able to solve this world's problems as long as we continue to use debt and money and expand that debt exponentially on a finite world.

Those heavy metals born in stars are 'God's' money, we are linked to it for our servival and so is this world.

You can't solve anything until you solve this.

Source for those fat ones?

 

[mike2810]

/sarcasm
Bitcoin is the answer to the paper money and debt problem. Just ask Trump.

 

[Deuce]

Gold as a currency is just as arbitrary as paper.

 

[Visbek]

Your eduction means nothing if you do not understand history....

Here we go

Of course, if you understood history, you'd know that it's a total disaster for a modern economy to use precious metals as a store of value.

Paper money, and the ones and zeros in bank computers are nothing but proof of debt, it has value because we all need it to pay off the debt that created it. Even when at times money was backed by specie banks would still create more banknotes than they had coin on deposit to back it.

First, the proper term is fiat currency.

Second, if you knew history, you'd know that hard currency can also be debased. E.g. coins can be made smaller, or mixed with other metals.

Third, you'd know that relying on metals causes all sorts of issues, including runs on national banks, and an inability to respond to financial crises.

It is the great evolution over the centuries from specie as money... etc

Yeah, that's all nonsense.

The existence of debt long pre-dated the widespread implementation of fiat currency. How do you think the Medici family built its fortune? By trading pasta? C'mon.

Each advancement forever changed the world we live in, to the point we have become a threat to all life on the one and only known planet that can support biological life.

Are you seriously trying to say that humanity became a threat to itself because of debt?

Specie one may think is something of barbarians, digging rocks out of the ground and using those as money, how absurd.

It's not barbaric. It's just that the people promoting it in this day and age are profoundly or willingly ignorant of the problems caused by hard currency.

Specie had a natural metering effect on mankind, all our advances came slow, when we were ready to deal with the repercussions of them, until we started using debt as money. on a world wide bases.

And again, that's a gigantic crock of shit.

You're not going to slow down social or scientific change by switching to hard currency. As a reminder, the economic crashes you'd cause by doing that also qualify as "social change."

Again, debt existed centuries before the implementation of fiat currency. And paper currency only detached from its metal base about 100 years ago.

Some say this world is overpopulated, and if that is the case, that case was caused by money as proof of debt( paper money ).

LOL

One minute, people having too many babies is the crisis that will destroy the world. The next, it's that people aren't having enough babies. Which is it?

Call me all the derogatory names you may like, but you will not be able to solve this world's problems as long as we continue to use debt and money and expand that debt exponentially on a finite world.

lol

Well, posting guidelines prevent insults. But I can say that it is absurd to suggest that:

• You can somehow slow down the pace of socioeconomic, scientific or political change by switching to hard currency
• You can solve the world's problems by eliminating debt
• You can solve the world's problems by switching back to hard currency
• Any modern nation could switch back to hard currency without that currency getting immediately destroyed by arbitrageurs
• Switching to hard currency would cause constant swings between inflation and deflation, that no one can control

I mean, really. Let's look at something basic, like... How do you pay your bills? In your regime, you can't use credit cards, you can't use debit cards, you can't write checks. Are you going to deliver gold and silver coins to the power company every month? I guess Amazon will have to what, go out of business? Or demand gold coins when they deliver? Amazon $88 billion in cash on hand, where are they supposed to keep that? In a vault underneath Jeff Bezos' house?

Have you not noticed that the value of gold fluctuates like mad? Gold hit $2800/oz 20 days ago; today it's at $2,610. That's 6.7% inflation in less than 3 weeks!

Your incredibly vague proposal here is a total non-starter. It doesn't even pass a basic smell test.

You can't solve anything until you solve this.

Sure looks like you can't solve anything at all.

 

[Visbek]

That is the issue isn't it, how to get back to specie without imploding the world's economic systems and starving 90% of the people on the planet?

I told you, you can't solve any problem until you solve this one, and I never said I could solve it.

Anyway... Lots of problems are, in fact, solvable. You're just taking those solutions for granted.

E.g. the world gets hit by a deadly pandemic. Solution? Develop and distribute a vaccine and effective treatments. COVID becomes endemic and treatable, hundreds of millions of deaths prevented. Problem solved.

It's a problem that is going to solve itself pretty soon, but the catch is 90% of the people are going to starve to death in the process, and it's really up to the elites to solve, not us, we just got to make sure we are not part of the 90% that starves to death when it happens.

What the f***?

You think 90% of the world is going to starve?

You think that "the elites" can do anything in a world where 7.2 billion people die overnight?

That's the problem with 10% of the people owning 90% of everything of value.( LAND ).

lol

First of all, how do you not know that economic inequality was worse during earlier points in time?

Second, how do you not know that land stopped being the primary source of value hundreds of years ago?

Can't grow food without land, fresh water, and good soil.

Hey, do you remember when you complained about all that progress? Did you miss how that progress results in fewer people being able to grow more food, on less land, with less water, and less soil...?

Did you miss all the news about vertical farms?

They have enslaved us in a debt so large it can never be paid, and we owe it to them anyways. We worked our lives to produce the very chains that enslaved us, and thank our masters while they whip us.

Sounds like someone did a bad job with his financial planning.

 

[joluoto]

Should go back to the good old days when a gold coin was made of gold and a silver coin made of silver, before they started to cheat and debase the metal in the coinage.

 

[nvflash]

Should go back to the good old days when a gold coin was made of gold and a silver coin made of silver, before they started to cheat and debase the metal in the coinage.

Coin clipping was always a thing, it's even in the Bible.

Mixing Gold and Silver as an alloy was to make it good for coinage, so it did not wear as quick, it was not cheating anyone as long as everyone knew the purity.

The cheating was allowing banks to print more paper demand notes than they had coinage on demand to redeem them.

That has always been the con, it has always been the money changers cheating us. That's why Jesus got violent with them and chased them from the temple.

So called fractional reserve banking is really just the same old con, only they took our gold and silver from us long ago.

If you want to know the truth, fallow the money, everyone knows, fallow the money.

Just not every zero knows it, and if you don't understand the history of money, you're a zero.

 

[joluoto]

Coin clipping was always a thing, it's even in the Bible.

Mixing Gold and Silver as an alloy was to make it good for coinage, so it did not wear as quick, it was not cheating anyone as long as everyone knew the purity.

The cheating was allowing banks to print more paper demand notes than they had coinage on demand to redeem them.

That has always been the con, it has always been the money changers cheating us. That's why Jesus got violent with them and chased them from the temple.

So called fractional reserve banking is really just the same old con, only they took our gold and silver from us long ago.

If you want to know the truth, fallow the money, everyone knows, fallow the money.

Just not every zero knows it, and if you don't understand the history of money, you're a zero.

If a gold coin is not gold it's cheating.

 

[nvflash]

If a gold coin is not gold it's cheating.

90% gold is still gold, as long as everyone understands it's 90% it's not a con. Making alloy is a way to keep the gold from rubbing off in your pockets.

It's easy to melt them down and scrape off the impurities if that's what you would like. Otherwise you are losing a good amount of gold due to coins rubbing in your pockets.

 

[BirdinHand]

The only reason “gold” held any value was because we assigned it value.

Money is a social construct.

The system works fine as it is.

 

[nvflash]

The only reason “gold” held any value was because we assigned it value.

Money is a social construct.

The system works fine as it is.

But does it really, because we have $35 trillion in public debt, people who could spend a million a day for the next 400 years, and most people in this country can't even make enough money to have to pay income taxes.

That does not sound like a good system to me, it sounds like a system of fraud, because that is what it is, sadly people like you won't wake up to it until the nation can no longer borrow to pay it's bills.

 

[BirdinHand]

But does it really, because we have $35 trillion in public debt, people who could spend a million a day for the next 400 years, and most people in this country can't even make enough money to have to pay income taxes.

And?

That does not sound like a good system to me, it sounds like a system of fraud, because that is what it is, sadly people like you won't wake up to it until the nation can no longer borrow to pay it's bills.

No nation can make enough money to pay its bills. The value of money is directly tied to the strength of our country and economy.

It hasn’t been tied to anything else for decades - anywhere - globally.

What you propose would crash the entire global economy and send the world backwards decades.

It’s a stupid and reckless idea.

 

[watsup]

I figured I may as well put this here, because while true, it will end up here anyways.

To my liberal friends, if I have any:

Your eduction means nothing if you do not understand history and that you can not understand if you do not understand history in the context of money. It is money that makes people do what they do, and the lack of it.

Paper money, and the ones and zeros in bank computers are nothing but proof of debt, it has value because we all need it to pay off the debt that created it. Even when at times money was backed by specie banks would still create more banknotes than they had coin on deposit to back it.

It is the great evolution over the centuries from specie as money to proof of debt backed by nothing more than the debt that created it that has allowed us to make great technical advancements, medical advancements, and just all manner of social and civil advancements at the pace we have over the last 200 years of mankind, but with it came a great many problems. Fore man is basically unchanged over the last 200 years of evolution, our base instincts are relatively unchanged.

Each advancement forever changed the world we live in, to the point we have become a threat to all life on the one and only known planet that can support biological life.

Specie one may think is something of barbarians, digging rocks out of the ground and using those as money, how absurd.

Specie had a natural metering effect on mankind, all our advances came slow, when we were ready to deal with the repercussions of them, until we started using debt as money. on a world wide bases.

Now our advancements have come at such a pace that our social and civil systems and even our biological ecosystem can not keep up with the pace of growth.

Some say this world is overpopulated, and if that is the case, that case was caused by money as proof of debt( paper money ).

Call me all the derogatory names you may like, but you will not be able to solve this world's problems as long as we continue to use debt and money and expand that debt exponentially on a finite world.

Those heavy metals born in stars are 'God's' money, we are linked to it for our servival and so is this world.

You can't solve anything until you solve this.

Please lay out EXACTLY what you think should be done, and how. Simply saying “specie” does not outline the steps that would be needed. How does the economy expand if we just pass around the same amount of paper money without increasing the supply? Does the government go out and buy more “specie”? Where do they get the money to do so?

 

[nvflash]

Please lay out EXACTLY what you think should be done, and how. Simply saying “specie” does not outline the steps that would be needed. How does the economy expand if we just pass around the same amount of paper money without increasing the supply? Does the government go out and buy more “specie”? Where do they get the money to do so?

The government does not buy money, it mints money, and affixes a monetary value to it, 'The Congress shall have Power to coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures.'

Never does it say Congress has the power to print money, because no such power ever existed, and doesn't exist now.

Either we are a nation of laws and Congress has no powers not specially granted by the Constitution or we are all just free to do whatever we like, just like Congress has been doing since they stopped coining our money.

So a few billionaire get shot down in the streets, maybe people think twice about how we've been conned our whole lives into thinking powerful men were ever going to stand by words on a page.

 

[watsup]

The government does not buy money, it mints money, and affixes a monetary value to it, 'The Congress shall have Power to coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures.'

Never does it say Congress has the power to print money, because no such power ever existed, and doesn't exist now.

Either we are a nation of laws and Congress has no powers not specially granted by the Constitution or we are all just free to do whatever we like, just like Congress has been doing since they stopped coining our money.

So a few billionaire get shot down in the streets, maybe people think twice about how we've been conned our whole lives into thinking powerful men were ever going to stand by words on a page.

You didn’t answer my question. Maybe you are afraid to look at the details of your suggestion of a return to specie. Have you even thought about it in depth? How exactly would this work? How does the economy expand if we just pass around the same amount of money to one another?

 

[nvflash]

You didn’t answer my question. Maybe you are afraid to look at the details of your suggestion of a return to specie. Have you even thought about it in depth? How exactly would this work? How does the economy expand if we just pass around the same amount of money to one another?

Do you think there are limited amounts of heavy metals formed in stars in this universe?

It's not just gold and silver, you can coin money out of any metal, and it has the value it has in the marketplace because they are useful metals.

The US government can fix any value it wants to any coined metal, but if it's not worth that in the marketplace it has very little meaning.

The statutory value of an Oz. of gold is $42.2222, set by Congress in the 1970's, but that means very little because we can all lookup the spot price of an Oz. of gold. Nobody is handing over an Oz. of pure gold for $42 bucks.

 

[VanceMack]

There is nothing wrong with paper or even digital currency, provided that the entity responsible for the value and backing of that currency is...well...responsible. Our government is not.

 

[nvflash]

There is nothing wrong with paper or even digital currency, provided that the entity responsible for the value and backing of that currency is...well...responsible. Our government is not.

Spoken like someone who thinks they benefit from the fraud.

You'll wise up when everyone else does, and we'll all be equal again, equally broke, but we won't be equally fed.

Do you know who will eat?

Those who have something of value to trade for food, good luck with your paper and 10101001010101010.

 

[VanceMack]

Spoken like someone who thinks they benefit from the fraud.

You'll wise up when everyone else does, and we'll all be equal again, equally broke, but we won't be equally fed.

Do you know who will eat?

Those who have something of value to trade for food, good luck with your paper and 10101001010101010.

'Spoken' like someone that has committed to a meme and doesnt actually 'hear' what other people are saying. Like...at all.

I'll tell you this...if/when the country hits the point where we have completely gone to hell, the only precious metal that will be of any value is lead.

 

[Visbek]

Should go back to the good old days when a gold coin was made of gold and a silver coin made of silver, before they started to cheat and debase the metal in the coinage.

Those good old days were when, exactly? Probably a Tuesday afternoon in the year 320 CE, right?

 

[Visbek]

90% gold is still gold, as long as everyone understands it's 90% it's not a con.

lol... The point is that hard currency can also be debased.

Hard currency also results in economies swinging wildly between inflation and deflation -- which is a thousand times worse than, say, 33 years of average 2% inflation, with one brief bout of inflation that doesn't even hit double digits.

Hard currency also results in arbitrageurs bankrupting national banks during downturns. Which is, after all, why pretty much every nation abandoned hard currencies during the 20th century.

I.e. if you think switching back to a hard currency is going to result in less problems, then you are deeply mistaken.

 

[Revelation]

Spoken like someone who thinks they benefit from the fraud.

You'll wise up when everyone else does, and we'll all be equal again, equally broke, but we won't be equally fed.

Do you know who will eat?

Those who have something of value to trade for food, good luck with your paper and 10101001010101010.

nv you understand the issue fairly well.

i am not sure how the wealthy are going to spin this one because things WILL NOT continue as they are. however the Oligarchs have given us clues to their agenda.

the Crazy debt world wide was planned that way to service the coming Agenda of the fascist control of this planet.

everything they do is aimed at a tighter grip of the Oligarchs everywhere and the Enslavement of mankind. a fast way of getting their agenda across is war, famine, depopulation, bio warfare et al.

so expect nuuuuklear WW three to create the 'shock and awe' they want to bring about their world wide fascism and New Economic agenda know as: CBDC and block chain. (just look it up) christians call this the mark of the beast, again look it up.

so as you see, the debt issue just serves the Elite as a way to break us and force us into their new economy.

eventually this also will fail as we march to the war drums of Armageddon.


there you go people, a ruff outline of things to come. the only escape is what God has prescribed for us in his Book.


and a blessed day to you all.

.