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Obtaining an illegal abortion [W:306]

But I'm not troll baiting.

Quite the opposite.

I'm putting a burr under the saddles of women who know that abortions kill a child but are afraid to speak up for them.

The best way to handle trolls is to put them on ignore and starve them.

If they're afraid to speak up in the safety of an anonymous forum, I'm sure there is no burr in the world big enough for them to budge.
 
Are you suggesting some form of registration for women post positive prego test? Like, wow. From a libertarian.

How would anyone know she was pregnant? Most women use home pregnancy tests these days, so it's easy peasy to keep it a secret if one so desires.
 
1)God is very Pro-Life 2) God didn't have a vote on the Supreme Court in Roe Vs. Wade. Anyone whose prayers were answered by Roe Vs. Wade is a heretic who worships humans. 3) I have been quite vocal in my belief that women should have a choice whether to have an abortion. 4) If calling rape victims traumatised but sane is an insult, pleeeeeezze insult me anytime! 5) your pack of defaming lies will only destroy your own credibility. 6) "Rape-publican party", which is as infantile and "Rebublitard" "Democrap" "Conserviturd" and other such names, that simply show that you have the mentality of a second-grader. 6) I'm not a Republican. I know that you think I am one based on your thought that I oppose women having the right to choose an abortion, and with true circular logic you think I am opposed to a woman's right to have an abortion based on your belief that I'm a Republican, but I'm not. 7) "Rape-publican party" demonstrates my point about how people who think rape babies are not innocent, are insane people. Which isn't an insult to women who are rape victims, , I'm quite sure most such lunatics have a penis and that most of them have never been sexually assaulted. . 8)I was answering a quote about rape babies, not one about all embryos. " Quote Originally Posted by dolphinocean View Post
The unborns are substantively committing the violation exactly as a legally insane rapist is legally innocent but substantively raping his victim"? Are you alright? Seriously." So if you weren't talking about rape babies, I wasn't quoting you, and it's an additional symptom of insanity that you assumed I was. 9) I'll keep praying to God who clearly identifies himself again and again in the Bible as Pro-Life, to give women the liberty to have better choices than abortion always available to them. You just keep praying to the Supreme Court to appeal to your hatred of women by offering women such suckish choices that abortion is actually the best of the bad options. My God is bigger than your Supreme Court. 10) I'm jealous of all the women who suffered being pregnant before Roe Vs. Wade? Why would I be? You project bizarre thoughts of yours onto me. I love my two kids, and I was almost as upset about miscarrying my rape baby as I was about getting raped. I could have had an older half-brother or half-sister for my two kids. When I told my older son I was pregnant with my younger son, he asked me if he could have an older brother instead (he was 5) and I wished right then, not for the first time, that his older half-brother (or half-sister) hadn't miscarried. 11) Most women are just fine with being pregnant, it isn't a horrible burden in most cases, most women pray for their baby to be born healthy, and THAT IS GOD'S SPECIALTY.

It is highly doubtful that I am insane, since unlike large numbers of full-time housewives and mothers, I have supported myself over a very long adult life and still do, mostly by working and sometimes by earning and using merit grants for grad school and research. I do not exhibit any of the behavior associated with insanity (see, e.g., Symptoms of Insanity - RightDiagnosis.com. I have no history of mental illness or alcohol or drug abuse, no aggression, emotional lability, no especially increased energy, elevated mood, suspicious mood, thoughts of conspiracy, hallucination, or delusions. I am quite capable of using logic that is not circular, have not exhibited circular logic here despite pthers' false claims, am capable of referring to respected philosophical works that relate to my perspective, such as Thomson's A Defense of Abortion and McDonagh's Breaking the Abortion Deadlock. It is not a symptom of insanity to suspect that a person who writes in a way that seems rather hostile to pro-choice posters is actually against abortion and probably supports making abortion illegal.

I did not pray to the Supreme Court. I merely prayed in gratitude to the God that had answered my prayer not to be pregnant by rape. And with my gratitude, I also made a very long case on behalf of other American women, asking, even demanding that, if God and Christ could not or would not stop all rape of women and girls by men and boys in this nation, they would see to it that no woman or girl in the US would ever again have to go through what I did, and would see to it that they had the right to choose to get unpregnant in a variety of situations. I went into great detail. I made this prayer every night, without exception. Unbeknownst to me, within about five days after I first made that prayer, a lawyer who was a Methodist minister's daughter, turned to her best friend and said, "Let's challenge Texas abortion law." That was in Texas, thousands of miles from where I was, in a Chicago suburb. They began to plan the case that would be Roe v Wade. I knew nothing of that, and just kept saying my prayer for women and girls in the US every night. Remarkably, Roe v Wade met every condition I detailed while still managing to keep some limits.

I'm not Catholic and don't believe in church intermediaries. I'm a Protestant who believes that God hears the prayers of the righteous. But God also hears some other prayers, notably, those of persons who have been subject to a serious injustice, the blind, the captives, them that are bruised. That is compensatory justice, a common concept in Protestant Christianity. I pray to God, whom I identify with the Creator that endows all men, meaning mankind and including women, with certain inalienable rights in the Declaration of Independence that gave rise to the United States. God inspires another woman in a suitable Christian sect, who apparently also identified God with that Creator. She does her inspired thing and takes her case up the courts to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court is not a mere elected legislature. Supreme Court justices sit as the final arbiters of what laws are constitutional in the United States for as long as they want to, and they are all citizens, and apparently they, too, were responsive to the Creator noted in the DoI. Weddington, the Methodist minister's daughter, was supported by the whole pro-choice movement of her time, which was filled with evangelical Christians and Methodists, and had leaders from among the latter. She won her case fair and square before them, and was just as shocked as anyone else that their decision was as liberal as it was, given that most of the SC justices had been appointed by Republicans.

You can think it's insane to believe that God answered the prayer of that pitiful but brave and loving rape victim, who has long since been transformed into a survivor, but I do not. That's how God often works in my brand of Protestant Christianity, hearing and then inspiring and moving the right people in the right paths to offer the right answer. Of course, I'm not suggesting that my prayer was mine alone - there were millions of Christians in those days praying for the same thing.

Of course God is bigger than the Supreme Court. God is bigger than Christianity. God is infinite. God doesn't need a vote on the Supreme Court - the whole world, including the Supreme Court, is in God's hands.

But of all the gifts God gives, none is greater to me than those which are demonstrated when the Spirit of the Lord is upon someone, because "Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty," and that Spirit "preaches deliverance to the captives" and "sets at liberty them that are bruised."

And it doesn't matter that "most women are just fine with being pregnant" because some women are not. And therefore human beings do not have the right to use physical or chemical force or the force of human law to force women to continue pregnancies that those women consider horrible burdens, just because those human beings covet the contents of those women's sex organs and interpret them to be something that they are not in the sight of truth. And FYI, I think that anyone who would ignore the fact that some women are not fine with being pregnant, and would minimize and trivialize their experience as equal persons, is really bizarre and really evidence of hatred of women for wanting to have their personhood recognized. I have been grateful every day of my life that I was not pregnant by rape, and I know of women who were pregnant by rape and are still grateful every day that abortion was a legally available choice for them. We are all different.
 
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If they're afraid to speak up in the safety of an anonymous forum, I'm sure there is no burr in the world big enough for them to budge.

I don't agree with that (completely).

I was a lurker for a long time myself before I decided to jump in.
 
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How would anyone know she was pregnant? Most women use home pregnancy tests these days, so it's easy peasy to keep it a secret if one so desires.

shhhhhh dont use reality and common sense when discussing the nonsensical logistics of banning abortion and making it murder
 
I don't agree with that.

I was a lurker for a long time myself before I decided to jump in.


so you lurked for a long time and you are still this uneducated about this topic? wow i wouldnt go around telling people that.

You think you would understand the difference between your opinion and facts then and how laws actually work and what they actually mean. You haven proven many times that you lack in these areas on this topic.
 
Are you saying that there would there be no women standing up for those 'children's' rights if men carried children?

You just admitted that they are children being carried.

1) A few, but most woman will go along with whatever their man says (Oh, no, you mean women aren't saints ?)

2) Alot of people couldn't care less about "children", hence, the real world.......................
 
1) A few, but most woman will go along with whatever their man says (Oh, no, you mean women aren't saints ?)

2) Alot of people couldn't care less about "children", hence, the real world.......................

I can appreciate your honesty.
 
It is highly doubtful that I am insane, since unlike large numbers of full-time housewives and mothers, I have supported myself over a very long adult life and still do, mostly by working and sometimes by earning and using merit grants for grad school and research. I do not exhibit any of the behavior associated with insanity (see, e.g., Symptoms of Insanity - RightDiagnosis.com. I have no history of mental illness or alcohol or drug abuse, no aggression, emotional lability, no especially increased energy, elevated mood, suspicious mood, thoughts of conspiracy, hallucination, or delusions. I am quite capable of using logic that is not circular, have not exhibited here, am capable of referring to respected philosophical works that relate to my perspective, such as Thomson's A Defense of Abortion and McDonagh's Breaking the Abortion Deadlock. It is not a symptom of insanity to suspect that a person who writes in a way that seems rather hostile to pro-choice posters is actually against abortion and probably supports making abortion illegal.

I did not pray to the Supreme Court. I merely prayed in gratitude to the God that had answered my prayer not to be pregnant by rape. And with my gratitude, I also made a very long case on behalf of other American women, asking, even demanding that, if God and Christ could not or would not stop all rape of women and girls by men and boys in this nation, they would see to it that no woman or girl in the US would ever again have to go through what I did, and would see to it that they had the right to choose to get unpregnant in a variety of situations. I went into great detail. I made this prayer every night, without exception. Unbeknownst to me, within about five days after I first made that prayer, a lawyer who was a Methodist minister's daughter, turned to her best friend and said, "Let's challenge Texas abortion law." That was in Texas, thousands of miles from where I was, in a Chicago suburb. They began to plan the case that would be Roe v Wade. I knew nothing of that, and just kept saying my prayer for women and girls in the US every night. Remarkably, Roe v Wade met every condition I detailed while still managing to keep some limits.

I'm not Catholic and don't believe in church intermediaries. I'm a Protestant who believes that God hears the prayers of the righteous. But God also hears some other prayers, notably, those who have been subject to a serious injustice, the blind, the captives, them that are bruised. That is compensatory justice, a common concept in Protestant Christianity. I pray to God, whom I identify with the Creator that endows all men, meaning mankind and including women, with certain inalienable rights in the Declaration of Independence that gave rise to the United States. God inspires another woman in a suitable Christian sect, who apparently also identified God with that Creator. She does her inspired thing and takes her case up the courts to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court is not a mere elected legislature. Supreme Court justices sit as the final arbiters of what laws are constitutional in the United States for as long as they want to, and they are all citizens, and apparently they, too, were responsive to the Creator noted in the DoI. Weddington, the Methodist minister's daughter, was supported by the whole pro-choice movement of her time, which was filled with evangelical Christians and Methodists, and had leaders from among the latter. She won her case fair and square before them, and was just as shocked as anyone else that their decision was as liberal as it was, given that most of the SC justices had been appointed by Republicans.

You can think it's insane to believe that God answered the prayer of that pitiful but brave and loving rape victim, who has long since been transformed into a survivor, but I do not. That's how God often works in my brand of Protestant Christianity, hearing and then inspiring and moving the right people in the right paths to offer the right answer.

Of course God is bigger than the Supreme Court. God is bigger than Christianity. God is infinite. But of all the gifts God gives, none is greater to me than those which are demonstrated when the Spirit of the Lord is upon someone, because "Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty," and that Spirit "preaches deliverance to the captives" and "sets at liberty them that are bruised."

And it doesn't matter that "most women are just fine with being pregnant" because some women are not. And therefore human beings do not have the right to use physical or chemical force or the force of human law to force women to continue pregnancies that those women consider horrible burdens, just because those human beings covet the contents of those women's sex organs and interpret them to be something that they are not in the sight of truth. And FYI, I think that anyone who would ignore the fact that some women are not fine with being pregnant, and would minimize and trivialize their experience as equal persons, is really bizarre and really evidence of hatred of women for wanting to have their personhood recognized. I have been grateful every day of my life that I was not pregnant by rape, and I know of women who were pregnant by rape and are still grateful every day that abortion was a legally available choice for them. We are all different.

Gee, it's a good thing I never trivialized or minimized the women who want to have abortions, that would be bizarre, just as when you trivialized and minimized the women who don't want to have abortions, by saying that wanting to have one is "wanting to have their personhood recognized", was bizarre. A person's a person, no matter how small, and if you think that killing a small person is a qualifier for personhood, you are minimizing and insulting all the women who never killed anyone and never felt that their personhood was in dispute. You are not pro-choice. you just said that "it doesn't matter" that most women are fine with being pregnant. you are anti-choice for most women. Also, You are not a Christian,. Christians believe God's word IS the light of truth, but God's word says the unborn baby is alive and human and that killing it is murder, and you believe the opposite. Going to church every Sunday while believing God's inconvenient disagreement with your beliefs to be of no consequence, no more makes you a Christian than being in your garage every week would make you a car. .
 
How would anyone know she was pregnant? Most women use home pregnancy tests these days, so it's easy peasy to keep it a secret if one so desires.

The fact that they use some sort of device to say they are pregnant opens the door for information transfers. You can figure the rest out. Not that I approve of that, but its pretty easy to do.
 
The fact that they use some sort of device to say they are pregnant opens the door for information transfers. You can figure the rest out. Not that I approve of that, but its pretty easy to do.

If men bore children, I don't know a single man who would let some "theocracy" dictate his choices...............It's funny how men expect women to be into being walked on...........................
 
If men bore children, I don't know a single man who would let some "theocracy" dictate his choices...............It's funny how men expect women to be into being walked on...........................

The post in question was merely informative. I was not supporting any such thing.
 
So, because certain groups are willing to break the law, we should support abortion?

If your true intent is to save the fetuses, then your efforts would be better spent in helping women who would rather not abort than in trying to make it illegal, given that it doesn't really reduce the numbers.
 
If men bore children, I don't know a single man who would let some "theocracy" dictate his choices...............It's funny how men expect women to be into being walked on...........................

What part of the abortion debate is it that you consider to be theocratic?

I agree that there are a lot of people who bring religion into it but it's not about religion for all of us.

There are a lot of non religious and even atheist groups that oppose abortion too.
 
Gee, it's a good thing I never trivialized or minimized the women who want to have abortions, that would be bizarre, just as when you trivialized and minimized the women who don't want to have abortions, by saying that wanting to have one is "wanting to have their personhood recognized", was bizarre. A person's a person, no matter how small, and if you think that killing a small person is a qualifier for personhood, you are minimizing and insulting all the women who never killed anyone and never felt that their personhood was in dispute. You are not pro-choice. you just said that "it doesn't matter" that most women are fine with being pregnant. you are anti-choice for most women. Also, You are not a Christian,. Christians believe God's word IS the light of truth, but God's word says the unborn baby is alive and human and that killing it is murder, and you believe the opposite. Going to church every Sunday while believing God's inconvenient disagreement with your beliefs to be of no consequence, no more makes you a Christian than being in your garage every week would make you a car. .

I do not think that killing a small person is a qualifier for personhood. I do not think that a zygote/morula/blastocyst/embryo/fetus is a person. I think that being born is a qualifier for personhood. All women who want to get and stay pregnant and give birth should be allowed to, and all women who do not want to get or stay pregnant should not have to. Because when other people force women either way, they are violating the personhood of those women. I am pro-choice. I am saying that, though most women are fine with being pregnant, that does not give people the right to force women to continue pregnancies if they are not fine with it.

God never said the unborn were persons in the Bible, and could not have. In the Hebrew of the Old Testament, a person is nephesh, a word related to breath that indicates a breathing human and, therefore, a born one. In the Gospels, the use of breath as a key concept is all over the place, e.g., "The flesh is nothing. The words that I speak to you [because they arise from breath] are Life." God never said, nor did Jesus Christ, that abortion is murder or even that it is killing.

There are plenty of Christian sects that do not agree with you. See: RCRC - Religious Leaders Celebrate Contraception Coverage, Women's Health Safeguards in Affordable Care Act Christians are supposed to have direct relations with God and Christ and not worry about what other people think, because the Gospels are full of Jesus' warnings not to follow pretenders. You don't have to follow me, and I don't have to follow you. But one thing that makes us different is that, because you have children, you have a husband, and married women and single women are different. Married women are supposed to please their husbands. Single women only have to please God, not men. And those who are married and given in marriage are, by definition, not worthy of that world and the resurrection of the dead, though when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage. And I therefore do not worry about what any married woman thinks if she wants to preach to single women, because she is obligated in Christianity to please a man, and a single woman is not.
 
If your true intent is to save the fetuses, then your efforts would be better spent in helping women who would rather not abort than in trying to make it illegal, given that it doesn't really reduce the numbers.

That's true but just doing that does not establish or protect the human rights of the children who are being aborted.
 
The post in question was merely informative. I was not supporting any such thing.

I mean, when conservatives started that garbage about legit or illegit rape, I was like, the women in those states must be really great specimens of "women"----------------They let men decide when they're raped............................
 
That's true but just doing that does not establish or protect the human rights of the children who are being aborted.

and banning it doesn't protect the human rights of the woman

so no what?

why do you ignore this fact.
 
I do not think that killing a small person is a qualifier for personhood. I do not think that a zygote/morula/blastocyst/embryo/fetus is a person. I think that being born is a qualifier for personhood. All women who want to get and stay pregnant and give birth should be allowed to, and all women who do not want to get or stay pregnant should have to. Because when other people force women either way, they are violating the personhood of those women. I am pro-choice. I am saying that, though most women are fine with being pregnant, that does not give people the right to force women to continue pregnancies if they are not fine with it.

God never said the unborn were persons in the Bible, and could not have. In the Hebrew of the Old Testament, a person is nephesh, a word related to breath that indicates a breathing human and, therefore, a born one. In the Gospels, the use of breath as a key concept is all over the place, e.g., "The flesh is nothing. The words that I speak to you [because they arise from breath] are Life." God never said, nor did Jesus Christ, that abortion is murder or even that it is killing.

There are plenty of Christian sects that do not agree with you. See: RCRC - Religious Leaders Celebrate Contraception Coverage, Women's Health Safeguards in Affordable Care Act Christians are supposed to have direct relations with God and Christ and not worry about what other people think, because the Gospels are full of Jesus' warnings not to follow pretenders. You don't have to follow me, and I don't have to follow you. But one thing that makes us different is that, because you have children, you have a husband, and married women and single women are different. Married women are supposed to please their husbands. Single women only have to please God, not men. And those who are married and given in marriage are, by definition, not worthy of that world and the resurrection of the dead, though when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage. And I therefore do not worry about what any married woman thinks if she wants to preach to single women, because she is obligated in Christianity to please a man, and a single woman is not.
Pick up a Bible and read the Old Testament, O ignorant One, the translation of nephesh, really? you are grasping for straws and if you ever actually read the Old Testament you would have seen Where God said unborn babies are living person of equal value to the parents, and where God said it was murder with the death penalty, to kill one. If one "Christian" too lazy to read God's Word believes otherwise, it's still true. If every "Christian" in the world but one were too lazy to read God's word and believes otherwise, it's still true. The truth is not subjective and is not reached by consensus, and everyone who believes it to be so, is NOT A CHRISTIAN.
 
Pick up a Bible and read the Old Testament, O ignorant One, the translation of nephesh, really? you are grasping for statraws and if you ever actually read the Old Testament you would have seen Where God said unborn babies are living person of equal value to the parents, and where God said it was murder. If one "Christian" too lazy to read God's Word believes otherwise, it's still true. If every "Christian" in the world but one were too lazy to read God's word and believes otherwise, it's still true. The truth is not subjective and is not reached by consensus, and everyone who believes it to be so, is NOT A CHRISTIAN.

Book, chapter, verse or it doesn't exist on this thread.
 
"I do not think that killing a small person is a qualifier for personhood." you said after saying that some women need to have abortions to validate their personhood.
 
Pick up a Bible and read the Old Testament, O ignorant One, the translation of nephesh, really? you are grasping for straws and if you ever actually read the Old Testament you would have seen Where God said unborn babies are living person of equal value to the parents, and where God said it was murder with the death penalty, to kill one. If one "Christian" too lazy to read God's Word believes otherwise, it's still true. If every "Christian" in the world but one were too lazy to read God's word and believes otherwise, it's still true. The truth is not subjective and is not reached by consensus, and everyone who believes it to be so, is NOT A CHRISTIAN.

Correct. But since we have been "granted" free will, we can chose to live outside the will of God..............................
 
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