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Obtaining an illegal abortion [W:306]

Really? Scientists said that: "The unborns 'are substantively committing the violation exactly as a legally insane rapist is legally innocent but substantively raping his victim'"?

Go fly a kite.

No. They said and showed in their research that zygotes produce hCG and blastocysts later cause the placenta to produce it, and that hCG causes apoptosis in some of the attack T-cells of the females they are in. They said and showed that blastocysts implant by penetrating into the endometrial wall, that they use tissue from that wall in making the placenta, that the placenta produces indoleamine 2, 3-dioxygenase and that this is directed by embryo and catabolizes the local L-tryptophan in the female's body and causes her attack T-cells to be starved of that amino acid so that they go into a latent state in which they can neither reproduce nor protect the female from viruses and infections, etc., etc. In strings of X causes Y discoveries and the relations between them, scientists showed a basic conflict between the female and embryo and how this was partially resolved. They showed that this behavior is found in mammalian embryos in general, including human ones.

It is not hard to say, however, that the uterus is a sex organ and that, if the human embryo does what it does without the consent of the woman to whom it does them, and if we choose to interpret that human embryo as a separate human being or person, that embryo's behavior is readily perceived, with cause, to fit the legal descriptions of assault, sexual assault, and robbery.

Eileen McDonagh's Breaking the Abortion Deadlock: From Choice to Consent (1996) makes the basic case without using all the more recent scientific evidence that can support her case. For her, unwanted pregnancy is rape, pure and simple. She is considered one of the key pro-choice philosophers since the seminal essay by J J Thomson, "A Defense of Abortion," published in 1971, argued that no person, not even a fetus if it is a person, has the right to use or appropriate another person's body for life support.

However, Mcdonagh's and Thomson's arguments are significantly bolstered by the detailed scientific evidence related to the roles in pregnancy of production of hCG by the zygote and later the placenta, the placental production of indoleamine 2, 3-dioxygenase and the causation of this by the blastocyst, behavior of the immune cells and blood complement of the woman, etc.

Frankly, pro-choice people really don't want to have to make this case this way. They would prefer to see the implanted embryo/fetus as part of the woman's body. But if anti-abortion people push the issue by trying to make abortion illegal, this is the pro-choice card that comes out: the zygote/morula/blastocyst/embryo/fetus that was not given specific consent beforehand is a rapist, pure and simple, and the woman has the right to use deadly force if necessary to kick it out.
 
nope this is why you have failed for pages, my argument NEVER went beyond this, only in your head

thank you for again proving me right, there was no other argument thats way you ave been wrong this whole time and i kept repeating my original and only point LMAO

thanks again :D


Nope, here you are blatantly arguing that a contract and intent can change the consequences of the act




1.) your opinion of what the consequence is doesnt change ***thats not the goal or what was contracted***. AGain the gun shot example is meaningless to what is being discussed.

2.) again a meaningless example since it has nothing to do with abortion and that one cant live without a heart

A stupid argument? Indeed, so I understand your need to create distance from it
 
But my thing is...that YOU would want to do that. How about executing all women who have had abortions?

While we are speculating...

How about we only execute the ones who admitted that it's a child and then kill them anyway?
 
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1.) and your point fails because no body is saying that LMAO
who said only the law matters in general? nobody lol

It's called a hypothetical. The point is to show how your reasoning works out when applied to various situations, thus to test it's validity. But more to the point, similar laws have been in existence in the near past and even today. The Ahmadi in Pakistan are a good example. By simply professing their faith, they open themselves up to execution by the state. because the ahmadi religion is seen as a corruption of the islamic faith and blasphemy.

So in this instance, even if it's legal, one would hardly describe such an execution as anything but murder. And Kevin's point is that such acts shouldn't be sanitized because someone legislated the process
 
While we are speculating...

How about we only execute the ones who admitted that it's a child and then kill them anyway?

Why single out the honest ones for punishment? Honesty is a virtue. Besides, killing someone when a lesser punishment will do, is murder. If an actual case is found where a woman had an abortion for a spurious reason, knowing it was a baby, tubal ligation would be quite sufficient to keep her from re-offending.
 
You can't prosecute someone for doing something that should be illegal but isn't. There are things that can be done, but that is not one of them.

However, the act of hiring someone to kill another human being, in many jurisdictions, will result in capital murder charges for both client and contractor. I do not generally agree with the death penalty, but life in prison is an adequate and appropriate minimum sentence for such an action. Once this heinous act is rendered illegal, that should be the penalty going forward.
 
Why single out the honest ones for punishment? Honesty is a virtue. Besides, killing someone when a lesser punishment will do, is murder. If an actual case is found where a woman had an abortion for a spurious reason, knowing it was a baby, tubal ligation would be quite sufficient to keep her from re-offending.

I was just playing along with his silly escapade.

And I was trying to tug at some of the readers who never post - to get off their asses.

Especially, if they know that an abortion kills a child and they just don't want to get involved. .
 
You can't prosecute someone for doing something that should be illegal but isn't. There are things that can be done, but that is not one of them.

However, the act of hiring someone to kill another human being, in many jurisdictions, will result in capital murder charges for both client and contractor. I do not generally agree with the death penalty, but life sentences are adequate and appropriate minimum penalty.

That's a great point and I tried to make it earlier too.

I was trying to point out how hypocritical it is to say it's murder if some robber kills the unborn child but it's not murder if the mom 'pays' someone to kill it.
 
I was just playing along with his silly escapade.

And I was trying to tug at some of the readers who never post - to get off their asses.

Especially, if they know that an abortion kills a child and they just don't want to get involved. .

Troll-baiting may result in thread bans, because Trolls love to report people to mods, like whiny babies.
 
Nope, here you are blatantly arguing that a contract and intent can change the consequences of the act






A stupid argument? Indeed, so I understand your need to create distance from it

thank you for posting that because it proves that NOWHERE did i argue that contract and intent can change the consequences of the act LMAO

what was said is that consequences have no impact to the contract LMAO

you have it backwards, thanks again for proving me right and showing everyone you made up an argument in you head that nobody was having

no wipe the egg off your face stop lying and making stuff up LMAO
 
It's called a hypothetical. The point is to show how your reasoning works out when applied to various situations, thus to test it's validity. But more to the point, similar laws have been in existence in the near past and even today. The Ahmadi in Pakistan are a good example. By simply professing their faith, they open themselves up to execution by the state. because the ahmadi religion is seen as a corruption of the islamic faith and blasphemy.

So in this instance, even if it's legal, one would hardly describe such an execution as anything but murder. And Kevin's point is that such acts shouldn't be sanitized because someone legislated the process

and his point is a factual failure :shrug:
nothig changed lol
 
That's a great point and I tried to make it earlier too.

I was trying to point out how hypocritical it is to say it's murder if some robber kills the unborn child but it's not murder if the mom 'pays' someone to kill it.

Shouldn't "mom" rather than "pays" be in quotes? One of the evidences that God is Pro-life, is when two women argue over a child's custody, and God tells King Solomon to tell both the women that they can each have half the baby after he cuts it in half. The woman who agreed to it, didn't get the baby. The woman who said , "Please, no, she can have the whole child" got the baby. That's the difference between a real mom and a hostile uterus, right there. The Bible doesn't say which woman gave birth to the baby, only that the woman who won the whole child by giving up the whole child, was the real mom. .
 
Troll-baiting may result in thread bans, because Trolls love to report people to mods, like whiny babies.

But I'm not troll baiting.

Quite the opposite.

I'm putting a burr under the saddles of women who know that abortions kill a child but are afraid to speak up for them.

The best way to handle trolls is to put them on ignore and starve them.
 
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That's the old pro-life spirit..! Now you're talking.

will he get executed for killing woman or only people that kill ZEFs are evil doers?

hypocrisy and dishonesty at its finest
 
JW mentioned hired killers men and I was likening that to a woman who hires an abortionist to kill her child.

which has been proven 100% false LMAO

facts will always defect nonsensical posts
 
That's the old pro-life spirit..! Now you're talking.

Pro-lifers are no more pro-life in every sense of the word than pro-choicers are pro choice in every sense of the word.

Sometimes there are justifiable reasons for taking a life.

You'll never see me deny that.
 
I was just playing along with his silly escapade.

And I was trying to tug at some of the readers who never post - to get off their asses.

Especially, if they know that an abortion kills a child and they just don't want to get involved. .

A bonafide real, true to life child, but prenatal?

Try selling that to ....anybody other than Jay and Henrin...and maybe AmericanWoman76. You don't have to sell them on it. Way back when the earth was young, they co-invented the idea, but I'm afraid...it won't go much farther.
 
will he get executed for killing woman or only people that kill ZEFs are evil doers?

hypocrisy and dishonesty at its finest

Such is life out in the wild west...

I guess that's what makes the world go round, huh? Look at this way. It keeps you off the streets and out of trouble having good folks who...have different ideas...here in good ole DP!
 
If men carried children, the right to abort would be the 1st amendment.................It must be tough being a woman in a man's world...................
 
Such is life out in the wild west...

I guess that's what makes the world go round, huh? Look at this way. It keeps you off the streets and out of trouble having good folks who...have different ideas...here in good ole DP!

true but im not sure these people actually exist in real life, i talk about these topics in real life with many people and nobody ever denys facts and just lies all the time like some do here. I guess they are scared to do it in real life or simply dont have the guts to do so while not sitting behind a computer screen.

I know lots of pro-life people, non of them are uneducated enough about the topic to call abortion murder, or aggressive homicide, or contract killing or to not admit that banning abortion would infringe on woman's rights, or think that theres such thing as equality possible in this case, they all admit and understand these facts.

Only on line do i ever see people be so dishonest or post such inane posts that cant be supported LOL its so entertaining.
 
If men carried children, the right to abort would be the 1st amendment.................It must be tough being a women in a man's world...................

Are you saying that there would there be no women standing up for those 'children's' rights if men carried children?

You just admitted that they are children being carried.
 
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