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objects dont exist

Omniscient

Omniscient

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we have no evidence for objects

only shapes of colors, that our memory fills in

ignorance of consciousness (which binds everything together as one) then causes the mind to think these "objects" exist and are separate from the other "objects"

and this memory is nothing but memory of past shapes of color

"According to Humes bundle theory, an object consists of its properties and nothing more; thus, there cannot be an object without properties and one cannot conceive of such an object. For example, when we think of an apple, we think of its properties: redness, roundness, being a type of fruit, etc. There is nothing above and beyond these properties; the apple is nothing more than the collection of its properties. In particular, there is no substance in which the properties are inherent."

there is no matter which makes objects real.

there is only qualia

en.wikipedia.org

Qualia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Rogue Valley said:
Reality is an acceptance that corporeal objects exist, whether or not we perceive them.
Click to expand...

reality isnt

but yes that is a framework the mind uses to function and communicate and share etc...
 
images


Try walking through a utility pole.


Come back to us and report your findings.



.
 
Qualia cannot be recognized, defined or shown to be physical in any sense. No observation of it's existence can be provided, therefore it's as elusive and mysterious as dark matter. Maybe more so.
 
It's an interesting concept, but until and unless we can manipulate it in some useful way, it's only an interesting concept.

Get back to us when we can artificially produce qualia (great word) that is indistinguishable from the natural.
 
WillyPete said:
Get back to us when we can artificially produce qualia (great word) that is indistinguishable from the natural.
Click to expand...

poke your eyeball and you will "artificially produce qualia"
 
Omniscient said:
poke your eyeball and you will "artificially produce qualia"
Click to expand...

Well no that would be natural. Cavemen with no language could pull that off.

You'd need to make me experience the sensation without actually doing it, and then we'd really be onto something.
 
Omniscient said:
qualia is omnipresent
Click to expand...

The original word I was given for the concept was sensorium, being the sum total of the info our senses collect as interpreted by the brain.

Like various movies/books have proposed over the years, it would be really exciting if we could manipulate it directly, potentially creating a perfect VR experience that our brains can't differentiate from reality.
 
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WillyPete said:
The original word I was given for the concept was sensorium, being the sum total of the info our senses collect as interpreted by the brain.
Click to expand...

brain does nothing but processs electrical signals

has nothing to do with qualia
 
Omniscient said:
brain does nothing but processs electrical signals

has nothing to do with qualia
Click to expand...

Well that's certainly an interesting take. Are you saying we can experience qualia without a brain to process the related signals?
 
And presumably the mind is also separate from the brain, with no physical dependency ? I suppose it's possible. Depressing, as we would appear to be permanently blocked from getting a peek at actual reality.

I find a system that just rationalizes and cleans up the information we're receiving, and presenting it's best effort at a window into actual reality far more likely.

Why wouldn't our minds adapt to the actual circumstances they find themselves in, rather than producing false perceptions? What purpose is served?

Why are our apparently unrelated hallucinations so consistent? Why don't some folks get unicorns, or not have WWII, etc?
 
WillyPete said:
And presumably the mind is also separate from the brain, with no physical dependency ? I suppose it's possible. Depressing, as we would appear to be permanently blocked from getting a peek at actual reality.

I find a system that just rationalizes and cleans up the information we're receiving, and presenting it's best effort at a window into actual reality far more likely.

Why wouldn't our minds adapt to the actual circumstances they find themselves in, rather than producing false perceptions? What purpose is served?

Why are our apparently unrelated hallucinations so consistent? Why don't some folks get unicorns, or not have WWII, etc?
Click to expand...

our reality might be a cartoon rendition. compared to the real one beyond the real senses which are beyond the sensed senses
 
Omniscient said:
we have no evidence for objects

only shapes of colors, that our memory fills in

ignorance of consciousness (which binds everything together as one) then causes the mind to think these "objects" exist and are separate from the other "objects"

and this memory is nothing but memory of past shapes of color

"According to Humes bundle theory, an object consists of its properties and nothing more; thus, there cannot be an object without properties and one cannot conceive of such an object. For example, when we think of an apple, we think of its properties: redness, roundness, being a type of fruit, etc. There is nothing above and beyond these properties; the apple is nothing more than the collection of its properties. In particular, there is no substance in which the properties are inherent."

there is no matter which makes objects real.

there is only qualia

en.wikipedia.org

Qualia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...

Useless mental masturbation.
 
Omniscient said:
we have no evidence for objects

only shapes of colors, that our memory fills in

ignorance of consciousness (which binds everything together as one) then causes the mind to think these "objects" exist and are separate from the other "objects"

and this memory is nothing but memory of past shapes of color

"According to Humes bundle theory, an object consists of its properties and nothing more; thus, there cannot be an object without properties and one cannot conceive of such an object. For example, when we think of an apple, we think of its properties: redness, roundness, being a type of fruit, etc. There is nothing above and beyond these properties; the apple is nothing more than the collection of its properties. In particular, there is no substance in which the properties are inherent."

there is no matter which makes objects real.

there is only qualia

en.wikipedia.org

Qualia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...
At some point within the boundary of X and Y, there is a distinct change in molecular make-up, thereby separating one item from another. Take the seashore as the perfect example where an object we call water becomes chemically unique from the silicon base of the landmass we call rock and sand. Hence we see separate objects because they are, indeed, separated.

Every object has this unique boundary. It's usually independent of the surrounding air, which is mostly nitrogen.
 
calamity said:
At some point within the boundary of X and Y, there is a distinct change in molecular make-up, thereby separating one item from another. Take the seashore as the perfect example where an object we call water becomes chemically unique from the silicon base of the landmass we call rock and sand. Hence we see separate objects because they are, indeed, separated.

Every object has this unique boundary. It's usually independent of the surrounding air, which is mostly nitrogen.
Click to expand...

your point is completely valid, within the assumption i destroyed

because your basically saying big objects are separate because the little objects their made up of are separate

but if objects in general dont exist then either do the little ones the big ones are supposedly made up of

im saying the only thing that exists is patterns color

this is why reality can be so easily reproduced on a monitor screen. because its all just shapes of different colors

there is no objects bit or little. and therefore there is no question of whether they are separate or not
 
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