Obama's Sales Pitch Hits A Sour Note

[Geo Patric]

well, p'raps because the rabid right has done such a terrific job of frightening so many americans who FAVORED universal healthcare before the election. the program now has been significantly watered down and still the republican naysayers are predicting doom and dread.

here... try this. along with the HCR bill passed was a lil rider that separates the Student Loan Program from commercial banks. Less interest, no profit which translates as more money in, more money out. It is estimated (OBM) to save 68 Billion dollars over the next decade while increasing the number of loans as well as doubling grants (as a grant student, i appreciate this). socialism? if you insist.

fact is, the original HRC bill was structured much the same way. Take out the profit and increase the monies available to crucial services... and the right wingnuts insisted that this would INCREASE costs.

lessee... The health insurance industry made 48 BILLION dollars in profits the year before the bill was written... not business costs, profits. that 48b that spent to get health care that never went to providing health care. you know what they call that, doncha? profiteering is an ugly word.

and somehow... eliminating that profit was gonna cost us more? bizarre. but the american public bought it.

who do you think is happiest about the current bill? yep! you get a gold star. the health insurance industry whose profits are expected to increase hugely.

and still, there are folks out there warning us about Obamas socialism

feh, already.

geo.

 

[justabubba]

My questions are niether naive nor disingenuous. I am honestly asking why he is out "selling" it if it has already passed.

Why waste more time and political capital after the vote?

Honestly why?

i would not agree with your premise that the time and effort spent educating the population about the healthcare plan is "wasted"

the term Obamacare is not one typically used by those who are supporters of the expansion and reform of America's healthcare
its criticism is something that those of the reich wing will hear being described daily while watching faux news
in short, Obama needs to counter the republican propaganda by presenting the democrats' version of the positive aspects of the new law
perception is reality until the provisions of the healthcare reform kick in to a degree that the public will be able to make their own, first-hand observations

and for a while, until the wrinkles are ironed out, there will also be some unintended consequences, such as this:

Insurers find loophole in health bill, say they don’t have to cover sick kids

Insurers find loophole in health bill, say they don’t have to cover sick kids | Raw Story

it is incumbent on the government leaders to explain how such matters will be dealt with. otherwise, we will only hear the opposition's perspective

 

[LaMidRighter]

well, p'raps because the rabid right has done such a terrific job of frightening so many americans who FAVORED universal healthcare before the election. the program now has been significantly watered down and still the republican naysayers are predicting doom and dread.

here... try this. along with the HCR bill passed was a lil rider that separates the Student Loan Program from commercial banks. Less interest, no profit which translates as more money in, more money out. It is estimated (OBM) to save 68 Billion dollars over the next decade while increasing the number of loans as well as doubling grants (as a grant student, i appreciate this). socialism? if you insist.

fact is, the original HRC bill was structured much the same way. Take out the profit and increase the monies available to crucial services... and the right wingnuts insisted that this would INCREASE costs.

lessee... The health insurance industry made 48 BILLION dollars in profits the year before the bill was written... not business costs, profits. that 48b that spent to get health care that never went to providing health care. you know what they call that, doncha? profiteering is an ugly word.

and somehow... eliminating that profit was gonna cost us more? bizarre. but the american public bought it.

who do you think is happiest about the current bill? yep! you get a gold star. the health insurance industry whose profits are expected to increase hugely.

and still, there are folks out there warning us about Obamas socialism

feh, already.

geo.

Oh great, another one. Everything the right said was in the bill........is in the bill in one way or another. UHC opponents warn of the economic catastrophe that it is, and guess what.....Canada, the UK, etc are all constantly trying to dig up more money and have to restrict access to services, taxes constantly have to be adjusted. Perhaps study more than a Dem. talking point before spouting off about fears and smears. Later.

 

[Geo Patric]

yeah... managing costs and organizing services is a considerable issue.

some do it better than others. but...m. Obama mentioned that Japan had what he thought the best model for universal health care.... so let's take a look at japan's universal health care system. we will find a nice, politically neutral source (NYU* - took me all of 16 seconds to locate it).

Summary:

Health insurance expenditures in Japan are financed by payroll taxes paid by employers and employees and by income-based premiums paid by the self-employed. In contrast to the United States, where the federal, state and local governments finance roughly 42.9 percent of all health care expenditures and out-of-pocket payments contribute another 22 percent, in Japan, only 31.7 percent of national health care expenditures derive from national and local public funds and 12.2 percent from out-of-pocket payments. The largest share of health care financing in Japan is raised by means of compulsory premiums levied on individual subscribers (34.6 percent) and employers (21.7 percent).3 This employment-based share of health care financing in Japan (56.4 percent) raised by means of voluntary employer, employee and individual subscriber premiums in the United States

less gummint cost, as predicted.

life expectancy? greater from birth, greater from age 80 onwards, greater for both men and women..

infant mortality? lower, almost half in fact.

per capita spending? less than half.

total health care cost as % of GDP. less than half.

with fewer resources (so less cost)

avg visits per person/per capita? almost 3 times as many.

number of hospital admissions as % of pop? almost half.

more and better care for more people at less cost. 'nuff said?

geo.

*Japan's Universal and Affordable Health Care: Lessons for the United States?

 

[LaMidRighter]

yeah... managing costs and organizing services is a considerable issue.

some do it better than others. but...m. Obama mentioned that Japan had what he thought the best model for universal health care.... so let's take a look at japan's universal health care system. we will find a nice, politically neutral source (NYU* - took me all of 16 seconds to locate it).

Summary:


less gummint cost, as predicted.

life expectancy? greater from birth, greater from age 80 onwards, greater for both men and women..

infant mortality? lower, almost half in fact.

per capita spending? less than half.

total health care cost as % of GDP. less than half.

with fewer resources (so less cost)

avg visits per person/per capita? almost 3 times as many.

number of hospital admissions as % of pop? almost half.

more and better care for more people at less cost. 'nuff said?

geo.

*Japan's Universal and Affordable Health Care: Lessons for the United States?

Right, and the Yen is dropping steadily, as is their economy. Quality of care is down in UHC countries as well as access, it's against our government's scope of power, we owe a ****load of money and this will cost more, it creates yet another bull**** entitlement. But let's not let the facts get in the way of pro UHC emotionalized talking points and speculative conjecture, or the Democrat party's image.

 

[Geo Patric]

yeah, lets not let facts get in the way.... i mean health care is the single greatest factor in determining the worth of a nation's currency as well as its "overall economy"... which is why OURS is doing so well.

but, thanks for the refresher course in trite paleoconservative phraseology and empty rhetoric.

geo.

 

[LaMidRighter]

yeah, lets not let facts get in the way.... i mean health care is the single greatest factor in determining the worth of a nation's currency as well as its "overall economy"... which is why OURS is doing so well.

Patently false. It is a major contributor in that health services account for around 1/6 of GDP, but it is not the greatest factor in the least.

but, thanks for the refresher course in trite paleoconservative phraseology and empty rhetoric.

Versus pro-UHC talking points? I'll take my chances with people who participate in the economy instead of trying to take over health care thank you.

 

[Geo Patric]

It is a major contributor in that health services account for around 1/6 of GDP, but it is not the greatest factor in the least.

emm... my comment was was intended as sarcasm.

and you obviously pay little or no attention to the people in the financial sector if I had to inform you about the relative merits in terms of cost/benefit of UHC.

republican opposition has little to do with the reality of economics as it applies to the nation or the people in general. it has to do with the reality of economics for a small group of people. insurers.

geo.

 

[LaMidRighter]

emm... my comment was was intended as sarcasm.

Came across as an uninformed market judgement to me.

and you obviously pay little or no attention to the people in the financial sector if I had to inform you about the relative merits in terms of cost/benefit of UHC.

LOL! I am in the financial market and it's exactly the opposite among major contributors. In fact UHC is projected to put a major strain on currency value because of the increases on taxes and expenditures.

republican opposition has little to do with the reality of economics as it applies to the nation or the people in general. it has to do with the reality of economics for a small group of people. insurers.

Keep telling yourself that.:roll: Everyone has money in everyone else, you cannot take one sector out without causing a domino effect.

 

[Geo Patric]

well, i can't account for your comprehension skills. irony escapes a lotta folks.

in fact, in every industrialized, capitalist, democratic nation in the world except the U.S, UHC provides more care to more people at less cost. that is fact.

the HRB did not establish universal health care. it provides for universal health insurance. there is a difference. already, health insurers are saying they may deny inusrance to children. BUT... the parents of those children MAY NOT refuse to buy insurance FOR those children. Nice, eh?

you wanna qualify that "major strain on currency value"? I have seen nothing that suggests there is any relation. or how 'bout those tax increases"?

lets ask kiplinger:

most are negligible, such as the new 10% excise tax on indoor tanning services yep... that should be crippling to most folks. mostly, tax credits, such as that for small firms as incentives to provide coverage.

increases include a requirement that businesses include the value of the health care benefits they provide to employees on W-2s, beginning with W-2s for 2011.

employees now take a tax break for the monies that PAY for insurance, but pay no tax on the benefit provide when employers pay. that will change. just how, has not yet been deternmined, but there will likely be a graduated tax on benefits. makes damned good sense to me. currently "Employer-provided health benefits represent the nation's most expensive tax break, costing the Treasury more than deductions for home mortgage interest and charitable donations combined" (USA Today)

an excise tax (40%) on High Cost plans, an inducement to lower cost of these plans. The rich can still get a doctor to come to the house and deliver aspirin.

and that is about it.

The DOMINO THEORY rises again!

yes, of course, there would be an effect. But there were never provisions for doing away with health insurance companies, only for providing alternatives to health insurance companies.

yer a big financial fella... how come european nations didn't collapse when they went to UHC? Why, for instance, did a little country like Switzerland do so well? Switzerland has almost a 35% market share in the management of the world’s private wealth, exceeding $2 trillion dollars. Pretty impressive, eh? And not just banking. Switzerland has the largest, most profitable insurance industry in the world... providing most to other countries... including the good old U.S. And they like to double down on their good hands. They are also the worlds second largest re-insurer, insuring insurers. Guess who insures Well Point?

we were talking about japan, yes? everybody gets what they need, more of it for less cost. But, what about private insurance? is there none to be had? well... yes, of course there is. Private providers are still thriving, thanks.

private medical insurance [in Japan] is widely available, and quite popular. The AFLAC duck is more famous here that it is in its native USA. In fact, [some foreign insurance] companies make as much as 75 percent of their profits in Japan" (Japan Times)

wow... those dominoes go a long way, don't they.

irrational, ill informed fear mongering has been successful. keep it up.

geo.

 

[LaMidRighter]

well, i can't account for your comprehension skills. irony escapes a lotta folks.

in fact, in every industrialized, capitalist, democratic nation in the world except the U.S, UHC provides more care to more people at less cost. that is fact.

the HRB did not establish universal health care. it provides for universal health insurance. there is a difference. already, health insurers are saying they may deny inusrance to children. BUT... the parents of those children MAY NOT refuse to buy insurance FOR those children. Nice, eh?

you wanna qualify that "major strain on currency value"? I have seen nothing that suggests there is any relation. or how 'bout those tax increases"?

lets ask kiplinger:

most are negligible, such as the new 10% excise tax on indoor tanning services yep... that should be crippling to most folks. mostly, tax credits, such as that for small firms as incentives to provide coverage.

increases include a requirement that businesses include the value of the health care benefits they provide to employees on W-2s, beginning with W-2s for 2011.

employees now take a tax break for the monies that PAY for insurance, but pay no tax on the benefit provide when employers pay. that will change. just how, has not yet been deternmined, but there will likely be a graduated tax on benefits. makes damned good sense to me. currently "Employer-provided health benefits represent the nation's most expensive tax break, costing the Treasury more than deductions for home mortgage interest and charitable donations combined" (USA Today)

an excise tax (40%) on High Cost plans, an inducement to lower cost of these plans. The rich can still get a doctor to come to the house and deliver aspirin.

and that is about it.

The DOMINO THEORY rises again!

yes, of course, there would be an effect. But there were never provisions for doing away with health insurance companies, only for providing alternatives to health insurance companies.

yer a big financial fella... how come european nations didn't collapse when they went to UHC? Why, for instance, did a little country like Switzerland do so well? Switzerland has almost a 35% market share in the management of the world’s private wealth, exceeding $2 trillion dollars. Pretty impressive, eh? And not just banking. Switzerland has the largest, most profitable insurance industry in the world... providing most to other countries... including the good old U.S. And they like to double down on their good hands. They are also the worlds second largest re-insurer, insuring insurers. Guess who insures Well Point?

we were talking about japan, yes? everybody gets what they need, more of it for less cost. But, what about private insurance? is there none to be had? well... yes, of course there is. Private providers are still thriving, thanks.



wow... those dominoes go a long way, don't they.

irrational, ill informed fear mongering has been successful. keep it up.

geo.

75% of their profits? :rofl Profit is what is left after expenditures.

 

[Geo Patric]

and?

You do have reading comprehension problems, don't you.

a certain amount of money taken in by a business exceeds what it spent to generate that income and is called "profit". The article says that for some companies (eg AFLAC) doing business in japan, as much as 75% percent of their profit comes from sales IN Japan, as opposed to elsewhere. Put simply, AFLAC makes more money in Japan than in the U.S.

Private, for profit insurance is alive and well in japan despite its UHC. It is alive and well in democratic nations with UHC as a rule, because UHC provides a populace with what it needs, not necessarily with what it wants.


geo.