Obama's job creation policies are working [W:865]

[washunut]

Re: Obama's job creation policies are working

Romney opposed both the stimulus and the loan to the carmakers. The CBO has reported that without the stimulus the economy would be worse.

I agree that the stimulus, while not perfect helped. But I thought we were discussing what helped the U.S. avert a depression. That clearly was TARP, which to the best of my knowledge Romnet supported and the Fed actions during 2008-09 which he also supported.

 

[AdamT]

Re: Obama's job creation policies are working

And hasn't the CBO had to "adjust" their figures after the fact? I think so.

quite different from the seasonal adjustment that bls does, although they also do monthly adjustments. If you don't do seasonal adjustments you end up comparing a month with high employement, like January (when Obama was inaugurated) to a month with low employment, like June.

 

[Prof. Peabody]

Re: Obama's job creation policies are working

Like I said, you are welcome to use whatever numbers you prefer; just don't expect anyone to take you seriously.

So you have been elected spokesman for everyone now? Congratulations.

 

[Catawba]

Re: Obama's job creation policies are working

I agree that the stimulus, while not perfect helped. But I thought we were discussing what helped the U.S. avert a depression. That clearly was TARP, which to the best of my knowledge Romnet supported and the Fed actions during 2008-09 which he also supported.

The CBO reported that our economy is better than it would have been without the stimulus, that Romney opposed. I prefer a better economy to a worst economy.

 

[Prof. Peabody]

Re: Obama's job creation policies are working

Raw numbers don't correct for seasonal changes and can thus be extremely misleading. If you look at the seasonally adjusted numbers for overall government employment you'll see that it's down about 600,000 jobs.

I did look at them. June of 2009 there were 22,570,000 Government workers till May 2012 they lost 601,000 jobs that's 2.6% job loss over the whole crash, those are the seasonally spun numbers. In June 2009 there were 6,007,000 construction workers till May 2012 they lost 491,000 jobs that's 8.1% job loss. Construction was hit much harder, again the seasonally spun numbers.

 

[washunut]

Re: Obama's job creation policies are working

The CBO reported that our economy is better than it would have been without the stimulus, that Romney opposed. I prefer a better economy to a worst economy.

We could have an even better economy if the stimulus was crafted better. That is where we differ.

It would be good to be a bit less partisan and think of what works best, not just try and defend what "our" side did or does.

 

[Catawba]

Re: Obama's job creation policies are working

We could have an even better economy if the stimulus was crafted better. That is where we differ.

It would be good to be a bit less partisan and think of what works best, not just try and defend what "our" side did or does.

We only have two realistic choices, one that supports the policies (supply side economics and financial deregulations) that caused our financial problems, and one that is changing that destructive trend.


If you think we should continue the 30 year experiment with trickle down theory and financial deregulation, vote for Romney. That is what he is selling!

 

[washunut]

Re: Obama's job creation policies are working

We only have two realistic choices, one that supports the policies (supply side economics and financial deregulations) that caused our financial problems, and one that is changing that destructive trend.


If you think we should continue the 30 year experiment with trickle down theory and financial deregulation, vote for Romney. That is what he is selling!

I think you are wrong, but it doesn't matter. Your only concern is for Obama to win and seem to care less about what happens to millions who have suffered under this administration.

It seems like a waste of time "debating" economic issues with someone who clearly has little grasp of the issue and can only think in back and white terms. No wonder we have the government we have.

 

[Catawba]

Re: Obama's job creation policies are working

I think you are wrong, but it doesn't matter. Your only concern is for Obama to win and seem to care less about what happens to millions who have suffered under this administration.

You are welcome to think whatever you like, but more than that would have suffered from the Bush recession without the Presidents stimulus according to the CBO.

It seems like a waste of time "debating" economic issues with someone who clearly has little grasp of the issue and can only think in back and white terms. No wonder we have the government we have.

You have not demonstrated you have a better grasp of the issues by stating your preference for a continuation of the trickledown theory and financial deregulation of the last 30 years.

 

[gingern44]

Re: Obama's job creation policies are working

The CBO is the most unbiased authoritative body accepted by both sides to make an analysis.

You may want to go back and revisit some of CBO's past "predictions". You'd do better with a dart board.

 

[Catawba]

Re: Obama's job creation policies are working

You may want to go back and revisit some of CBO's past "predictions". You'd do better with a dart board.

The CBO is the most authoritative body on the issue accepted by both sides. I'll take their assessment over unsubstantiated opinions from anonymous internet dudes any day.

 

[DA60]

Re: Obama's job creation policies are working

You are welcome to think whatever you like, but more than that would have suffered from the Bush recession without the Presidents stimulus according to the CBO.

Where exactly did the CBO say that?

They posted estimates of potential job gains...but I have never seen them say that more Americans would have suffered had the Stimulus not been enacted.

 

[Catawba]

Re: Obama's job creation policies are working

Where exactly did the CBO say that?

They posted estimates of potential job gains...but I have never seen them say that more Americans would have suffered had the Stimulus not been enacted.

In Congressional testimony, "Congressional Budget Office Director Doug Elmendorf told Congress recently, "Our position is that the [2009] Recovery Act was not a failed program. Our position is that it created higher output and employment than would have occurred without it."

Why Obama's Economic Stimulus Worked - Economic Intelligence (usnews.com)

 

[DA60]

Re: Obama's job creation policies are working

In Congressional testimony, "Congressional Budget Office Director Doug Elmendorf told Congress recently, "Our position is that the [2009] Recovery Act was not a failed program. Our position is that it created higher output and employment than would have occurred without it."

Why Obama's Economic Stimulus Worked - Economic Intelligence (usnews.com)

I stand corrected - well done.


However - they said it was their 'position' - they did not provide evidence as to what the outcome would have been without Stimulus.
And nor could they.


To say what would have happened during a particular time frame had a certain incident/process not happened is monumentally unscientific.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to know what would have happened without the Stimulus...IMPOSSIBLE.

Sure - they are entitled to guess or assume.

But one can NEVER know - and for the CBO to assume is useless and smacks of partisanship for the big government process.


Well, I just lost a lot of respect for the economic impartiality of the CBO.

 

[Billy the Kid]

Re: Obama's job creation policies are working

If the Obama Administration has done such a wonderful job with the economy why are the media talking heads, this morning, starting to use the "R" word? Another recession and Obama is going the way of Jimmy Carter.

 

[Born Free]

Re: Obama's job creation policies are working

Romney opposed both the stimulus and the loan to the carmakers. The CBO has reported that without the stimulus the economy would be worse.

At a cost of a trillion dollar stimulus, you would expect to get at least a dimes worth.

 

[AdamT]

Re: Obama's job creation policies are working

I stand corrected - well done.


However - they said it was their 'position' - they did not provide evidence as to what the outcome would have been without Stimulus.
And nor could they.


To say what would have happened during a particular time frame had a certain incident/process not happened is monumentally unscientific.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to know what would have happened without the Stimulus...IMPOSSIBLE.

Sure - they are entitled to guess or assume.

But one can NEVER know - and for the CBO to assume is useless and smacks of partisanship for the big government process.


Well, I just lost a lot of respect for the economic impartiality of the CBO.

First you excoriate the president because things would be much much better but-for his policies. Then it is pointed out that the most authoritative sources say that is bunk. Then, the last, desperate argument of the right, you argue that it is impossible to know what would have happened if the president had not done what he did ... thus invalidating your original argument.

 

[Born Free]

Re: Obama's job creation policies are working

First you excoriate the president because things would be much much better but-for his policies. Then it is pointed out that the most authoritative sources say that is bunk. Then, the last, desperate argument of the right, you argue that it is impossible to know what would have happened if the president had not done what he did ... thus invalidating your original argument.

I think the biggest sign of Obama's economic failure, is himself. Notice he never brings it up, or brags about the economy as one of his successes. And if he does, he says he's needs more time.

 

[greatar4]

Re: Obama's job creation policies are working

I think that all that matters is what voters say in November.

I pretty much agree with that statement. The problem is that the President keeps claiming that his administration has added 4.0 million job, but the economy is still struggling as far as job creation is concerned. Last month the job number went to 69,000 and the the unemployment went up from 8.1 to 8.2%. I think there is still lot to be done.

 

[Catawba]

Re: Obama's job creation policies are working

If the Obama Administration has done such a wonderful job with the economy why are the media talking heads, this morning, starting to use the "R" word? Another recession and Obama is going the way of Jimmy Carter.

Oh, you base your opinions on media's talking heads, eh?

 

[Catawba]

Re: Obama's job creation policies are working

At a cost of a trillion dollar stimulus, you would expect to get at least a dimes worth.

I much prefer a better economy than we would have had without the stimulus. That's worth a hell of a lot more to the country than the GOP war in Iraq was.

 

[DA60]

Re: Obama's job creation policies are working

First you excoriate the president because things would be much much better but-for his policies. Then it is pointed out that the most authoritative sources say that is bunk. Then, the last, desperate argument of the right, you argue that it is impossible to know what would have happened if the president had not done what he did ... thus invalidating your original argument.

Where EXACTLY did I type that 'things would be much better but for his (Obama's) policies'?

Not, where did I 'assume' things 'might' have been better (which is a simple personal opinion). Where did I say that things 'would' (in a matter-of-fact manner - which the CBO did) have been better?

BTW - you will not find it because I do not recall EVER thinking that, let alone typing it.


I wish you would not put words in to my mouth. If you continue to do so, your posts will be ignored by me.
I have better things to do then correct your misinterpretations of my statements.

 

[DA60]

Re: Obama's job creation policies are working

I pretty much agree with that statement. The problem is that the President keeps claiming that his administration has added 4.0 million job, but the economy is still struggling as far as job creation is concerned. Last month the job number went to 69,000 and the the unemployment went up from 8.1 to 8.2%. I think there is still lot to be done.

If you added the number of discouraged potential workers (over the number that existed in Dec. '08) to the formula - the unemployment rate is over 10.7%.

Even if you excluded roughly half of those discouraged potential workers due to retirement (as some economists have) - the unemployment rate is still over 9.7%.

So all America got for all those deficits and spending programs and a raising of the national debt by about 40% is a much higher unemployment rate and more people on food stamps since Obama took over (and Bush was sucking as it was - in my opinion).

There is - in my opinion - a TON of work still to be done.

 

[Billy the Kid]

Re: Obama's job creation policies are working

Oh, you base your opinions on media's talking heads, eh?

:lamo

Just reporting what I heard on local news. You got something that says this is wrong? Please post it. Thanks

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Re: Obama's job creation policies are working

:lamo

Just reporting what I heard on local news. You got something that says this is wrong? Please post it. Thanks

That looks like a "yes".

LOL.