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I say toe-may-toe, you say toe-mah-toe
And its difficult to argue with anyone who doesn't understand demographics. In an aging population there are fewer people to pay for the programs expected by the older people. The USA is almost $18 trillion in debt and there are still people still expect to be paid when they reach old age. Who will pay them?
Besides housing, that's also what demographics are all about.
There should't have been a need. If all of the money that these people put into the system throughout their careers hadn't been stolen by the criminals in Washington, there would have been plenty of money available. Unfortunately, that's not how the government has worked, they've pilfered the money for decades, figuring they'd be out of office and likely dead before the poop hit the fan and we, as taxpayers and voters, have allowed them to do so instead of holding them responsible.
Many people seem to think that the IRS is involved somehow. Is it they who are setting health care standards?Relax, guy. If you'll recall, O-care is not 'government health care' - it is privatized health care that has to meet certain standards set by the government.
'Unfriendly' in what way? Do you think the USA will be a better country when it is run by Democrats?And anyone who claims to understand demographics should realize right away that the GOP is in danger of marginalizing itself over the next decade or so, thanks to its general unfriendliness to those who aren't as white as Reagan.
Many people seem to think that the IRS is involved somehow. Is it they who are setting health care standards?
'Unfriendly' in what way? Do you think the USA will be a better country when it is run by Democrats?
I've never heard BHO offer them any credit for this. Perhaps it should be called Heritage Care. Othrs have claimed it was based on Mitt Romneycare. What seems to be happening is that the left is trying to blame this shambles on others.1. You'll find that most of the standards were suggested by the Heritage foundation when they first proposed what we today call Obamacare.
And how does this relate to Obamacare?2. A growing percentage of those on the Right support the "right" of a business to serve someone because of their race, religion, ethnicity, or sexual gender/preference/identity...and this is personified in the growth of the libertarian sector of the GOP. In fact, legislation was just passed in Mississippi affirming just such a 'right' for business against those in the LGBT community.
. Learn your history. It was the Democrats who supported the Jim Crow laws.In other words, a growing percentage of the Right wants to legitimize - or regain - their "right" of prejudice, of discrimination against others. On the other hand, most who are not white have experienced discrimination first-hand, and there's a great many older blacks who remember Jim Crow..so to them, the Right is trying to bring back Jim Crow...and that in their eyes is certainly unfriendly to them.
. Learn your history. It was the Democrats who supported the Jim Crow laws.
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We've gone over this, before, Grant. You got shredded the last time you tried this approach. It wasn't Democrats who supported the Jim Crow laws. It was SOUTHERNERS. It happened to be that many southerners at the time were Democrats because of long-standing anger towards Lincoln... who supported the blacks. Of course, when the Civil Rights Act of 1964 got passed, we saw the shift. Now, Southerners tend to be Republicans. It's about regionalism. Must I keep reminding you of this?
It was Democrats, and no running away will change that. Bill Whittle - Racism - Democrats and Republicans switch sides? - YouTube
When did the White House come out and say every American (or simply uninsured American) would be signed up on Obamacare in the first six months?This 'take a while' certainly wasn't expected by the White House
The individual mandate extensions (which is what we're discussing) have been granted because the rollout was so terrible.which is why they kept giving extensions and changing the rules.
1. You'll find that most of the standards were suggested by the Heritage foundation when they first proposed what we today call Obamacare.
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I've never heard BHO offer them any credit for this. Perhaps it should be called Heritage Care. Othrs have claimed it was based on Mitt Romneycare. What seems to be happening is that the left is trying to blame this shambles on others.
And how does this relate to Obamacare?
. Learn your history. It was the Democrats who supported the Jim Crow laws.
.
It was a man named Stuart Butler from The Heritage Foundation, Glen, and he only suggested the individual mandate. Obamacare isn't just about the individual mandate, is it?
That's not entirely true
HF also proposed state based markets, selling insurance across state lines and a few other ideas that are incorporated in ACA.
I was talking about Stuart Butler's opinion piece, not the HF.
What opinion piece? This discussion is not limited to one opinion piece that he wrote
Once again, your attempt to define the limits of a discussion has failed
I wasn't having the discussion with you. I was having it with Glen.
This discussion is open to any member of DP
Another of your attempts to control the discussion has failed
It was a man named Stuart Butler from The Heritage Foundation, Glen, and he only suggested the individual mandate. Obamacare isn't just about the individual mandate, is it?
Exactly! The problem is that people genuinely expect that money to be waiting for them and that is doubtful. Reform was tried during the early years of the Bush Administration but failed.
Of course it is. But I wasn't having the discussion with you; it was with Glen. You're free to butt in every time. But that doesn't change the fact that I don't answer to you on what I post to other people. You aren't a moderator, are you, sangha?
Now, what would you like to talk about now that you've gotten my attention, which I assume is what you were looking for? I've only read bits and pieces of the piece that Butler published in 1989. Do you have a link that neatly summarizes the plan that The Heritage Foundation published (not the Butler piece)? The one Butler published in 1989 which was actually a lecture he gave as I recall was published with the statement that nothing written in it were to be construed as reflecting the views of The Heritage Foundation, or words to that effect.
Here you go sangha. Bottom of page 2.
http://healthcarereform.procon.org/sourcefiles/1989_assuring_affordable_health_care_for_all_americans.pdf
Perhaps you should research a little more. Here's from another member of the Heritage Foundation, in a 2006 article supporting the idea of health insurance exchanges:
Short of congressional action to reform the tax code, the burden to improve health coverage rests with state officials. The best way to enable individuals and families to buy, own, and keep health insurance from job to job-without losing the tax advantages of the employment-based coverage-is to transform the balkanized and dysfunctional state health insurance market into a single health insurance market. This new market would function well for all sorts of individuals and small businesses, not just workers employed by large companies.
And how about those "pre-existing conditions? Here's a link to a page that links to "The Bush Plan" (from George H. W. Bush):
Less than two decades later, in what remains an unexplored chapter of health care history, a surprising supporter of the individual mandate was George H.W. Bush. According to contemporaneous reporting, Bush used "the tax system to 'encourage and empower' individuals to buy health insurance and would enact insurance market reforms that make it possible for everyone -- even if they have pre-existing health problems -- to get insurance." In short: individuals would be mandated to buy catastrophic health insurance. The cost of that coverage would be tied to income, meaning that the poorer you were, the less expensive your policy would be.
Here's a link to the .pdf file itself - the pertinent quote is found at the bottom of page 25 of the document.
So...that's the individual mandate, the health insurance exchanges, the coverage of pre-existing conditions all supported by the cognoscenti of the GOP long before any of us ever heard of Obama. Got anything else?
There is nothing anywhere on page 2 that supports your claim
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