JCHSALEM
New member
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2013
- Messages
- 49
- Reaction score
- 7
- Location
- Branchburg, NJ
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Libertarian - Left
Okay, so I think I have a basic-ish understanding of Obamacare. What I still would like is a list of reasons Republicans are against it and explanation why. And none of the "OBAMA IS SATAN" crap. I want facts.
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Nonsense.where should I startng first it is a tax on the young and healthy middle class and their families they are forced to pay a higher premium to support yet again another hand out
its a tax but using the insurance companies as the middle man to levy that tax. its a redistribution of wealth but not from the rich but from the middle class
Most Will keep their health insurance Unchanged through their employer,trfj said:second it was sold on a lie "You can keep your doctor" "you can keep you health insurance" "it will save the public 2,500 a year on health care" you can try and say those are nothing but republicans talking point, but there is proof after proof showing all of them are blatant unadulterated lies, and like any product that is sold under a lie it is called false advertisement and companies get sued every day for doing just that. you can return the product and sue the company for damages caused by those lies
Ah yes, the Red threat!trfj said:third it is just one more step closer to socialism you know that oppressive political system that has put one country in bankruptcy and many more will follow.
That's The idea!trfj said:forth it will cause poorer health care. doctor reimburisment on treatment have been cut....
Once you get past 49 employees, you are way past mom and pop stores, unless you have 20 of them.trfj said:fifth it has hurt job growth small companies will not grow they will not hire to go above 49 employees so not to have their cost of doing business go up by 20% or more by being forced to provide insurance or pay a hefty fine it is also causing many business to either cut hours to part time only hire part time and through a temp service
Then he's not a very smart boss. I'm sure the employees would happily take a small monthly pay cut to pay for Obamacare/Any-Healthcare but keep their jobs.trfj said:I ran into my old boss last week. he owned a sheet metal shop that I did auto cad for. he told me he had to retire early and close up shop forcing over 200 on the unemployment line because the insurance plan he did offer that we only paid 25 cents a week because he covered the rest of the premium out of his pocket. but because of Obama care it didn't meet the requirements and he couldn't afford to pay anymore then he already was and couldn't afford to pay the fine so he bit the bullet and closed shop. I can tell he was devastated for doing so. stories like this is happening all over America caused by Obama care
where should I start
first it is a tax on the young and healthy middle class and their families they are forced to pay a higher premium to support yet again another hand out
its a tax but using the insurance companies as the middle man to levy that tax. its a redistribution of wealth but not from the rich but from the middle class
1: Becasue employers will no longer control peoples HC
2: the Mega rich will pay for the subsidies for the poor.
Okay, so I think I have a basic-ish understanding of Obamacare. What I still would like is a list of reasons Republicans are against it and explanation why. And none of the "OBAMA IS SATAN" crap. I want facts.
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Nonsense.
Mandates were a GOP idea to prevent Freeloading. Those guys who get free medical care in the emergency room, including the young.
Just as with mandatory auto insurance.
The "Transfer of wealth" was from those paying for insurance to those without it.
Mandates is about Everyone paying.
try again.
Most Will keep their health insurance Unchanged through their employer,
I am self-employed and pay 2000 a Month for coverage. (Aetna QPOS, NY)
I will almost certainly now get it Much cheaper through health exchanges.
Ah yes, the Red threat!
Just like our [socialist] Medicare recipients get services much cheaper. The Govt is a bigger/better bargainer.
EVERY other of the 29 OECD Nations has Universal Healthcare and at app HALF The cost of ours.
That's The idea!
The Big winners have been our Rich doctors and Med supply cos/the losers everyone else.
Once you get past 49 employees, you are way past mom and pop stores, unless you have 20 of them.
Then he's not a very smart boss. I'm sure the employees would happily take a small monthly pay cut to pay for Obamacare/Any-Healthcare but keep their jobs.
Okay, so I think I have a basic-ish understanding of Obamacare. What I still would like is a list of reasons Republicans are against it and explanation why. And none of the "OBAMA IS SATAN" crap. I want facts.
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I addressed His point completely. Whatever YOU think "the point" was is your opinion/extranea.Actually you failed to address his argument. Your one salient point is that the individual mandate was originally a GOP counter to HillaryCare's Employer Mandate. A tax it is and remains, and the community rating absolutely makes it a wealth transfer.
You can pervert it any way you like.cpwil said:I hope that you do - but many many many are not. For example, one of the laws problems is that the fee for employers not insuring employees does not extend to their families, and so employers are droping family coverage left and right. Your anecdote aside, his point (that Obamacare will cost many people their insurance and their doctors) remains correct.
The Govt, AS I SHOWED, already Is a much better bargainer.. as it is in every other OECD country.cpwill said:Yup. Once you start rationing supply, overall costs do remain lower. We pay more, and we get more. That doesn't mean that the Govt is a better bargainer - take a look at the growing number of providers who refuse to take any more Medicare/Mediaid patients. Good bargainers reach mutually beneficial positions - they don't bargain themselves out of the market.
Let's have a national referendum on Medicare.cpwill said:As for socialism, (shrug) the political left has been fairly blatant about the fact that they see this program as a step towards socialized medicine. That's not conspiracy theory mongering, it's accurate reporting of their intentions.
Let's have a national referendum on Medicare.cpwill said:Hooray! Now old and poor people can't get medical care! Yippee!
.....wait......
:thinking
Someone WILL Pay for healthcare, be it in reduced salary or increased personal premium. Baffled as to your point.cpwill said:Wait. You are agreeing that this program reduces the take-home pay of our blue collar workers, then, and are selling that as the silver lining for "well at least they shouldn't have to lose their jobs"? And that's the silver lining?
Okay, so I think I have a basic-ish understanding of Obamacare. What I still would like is a list of reasons Republicans are against it and explanation why. And none of the "OBAMA IS SATAN" crap. I want facts.
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When you poll people and call the hea/thcare law by its real name: Affordable Care Act, only about 30% of the people oppose it. When you name it Obamacare, about 47% do.Okay, so I think I have a basic-ish understanding of Obamacare. What I still would like is a list of reasons Republicans are against it and explanation why. And none of the "OBAMA IS SATAN" crap. I want facts.
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Higher Premiums
Paying for people who don't pay anything.
Not Government's business.
Healthcare isn't a right. They can work for it like the rest of us.
Why should employers be saddled with healthcare? I hate that, myself. Employer provided healthcare results in us being far less competitive compared to places like Germany and Japan, not to mention it costs me dollars I'd rather see put in my paycheck.
Difference of opinion. I want healthcare to be the "government's business". And paying for the healthcare of people who pay nothing is cheaper in the long run. And, instead of ever rising premiums, lets just do away with them and toss in a tax.What does that have anything to do with what I said?
Difference of opinion. I want healthcare to be the "government's business".
I disagreeWhy? It's not the role of the government.
I disagree
You don't know that.If the government was in charge of healthcare they would not be protecting the rights or liberties of the people. All they would be doing is providing people healthcare services at the expense of fellow citizens.
You don't know that.
Of course I know that. Healthcare is a service, not a human right, and if government provided it the taxpayers would be billed.
I addressed His point completely. Whatever YOU think "the point" was is your opinion/extranea.
You can pervert it any way you like.
Bottom Line? More money will flow TO Healthcare be it in penalty or premium and more will be insured. Already is.
The Govt, AS I SHOWED, already Is a much better bargainer.. as it is in every other OECD country.
Another Disingenuous remark that's part of a larger partisan, not reason-based, agenda.
Let's have a national referendum on Medicare.
90%?
The difference between us and indeed the difference between me and most others here, is my positions are fact/math based...
Someone WILL Pay for healthcare, be it in reduced salary or increased personal premium. Baffled as to your point.
More people will pay and less free ride. Again, Mandates was a [good] GOP idea.
I'd rather be taxed on it than pay these ungodly premiums that are split between me and my employer. It'll probably be cheaper--no profits for greedy insurance companies, and we can begin to see some cuts in medical fees and drug costs as well. We have the highest priced healthcare in the world, but the 40th as far as quality. Our system is broken.
Only the Fox News, Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh crowd still believe the lie that our broken healthcare system is worldclass. The rest of us know better..
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