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Obama on both sides of an issue

ReverendHellh0und

ReverendHellh0und

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Political Radar: Obama Says He Is Against Same-Sex Marriage But Also Against Ending Its Practice In Calif.

Obama Says He Is Against Same-Sex Marriage But Also Against Ending Its Practice In Calif.
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Share November 02, 2008 6:36 PM

ABC News' Teddy Davis, Sunlen Miller, Tahman Bradley, and Rigel Anderson report: Barack Obama's nuanced position on same-sex marriage is on full display in an MTV interview which is set to air on Monday.

Obama told MTV he believes marriage is "between a man and a woman" and that he is "not in favor of gay marriage."

At the same time, Obama reiterated his opposition to Proposition 8, the California ballot measure which would eliminate a right to same-sex marriage that the state's Supreme Court recently recognized.
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So the man of fairness is against gay marriage, but opposes a law that would prevent it.


which side of the issue is he on here? :lol:
 
before I click on that video, can you tell me it's relevance to the topic?
 
Thanks MDM for posting that video. My brain has grown lazy after listening to easily digestible political soundbites delivered over the last several years by lesser politicans. It's like being away from school for a long time, and then having the chance to have your intellect challenged again. It's a pleasure.

I believe the point of posting the video is to illustrate that you can hold true to a set of beliefs on personal level, while still supporting legislation that may be in conflict with those same beliefs.
 
Tr991 said:
Thanks MDM for posting that video. My brain has grown lazy after listening to easily digestible political soundbites delivered over the last several years by lesser politicans. It's like being away from school for a long time, and then having the chance to have your intellect challenged again. It's a pleasure.

I believe the point of posting the video is to illustrate that you can hold true to a set of beliefs on personal level, while still supporting legislation that may be in conflict with those same beliefs.
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Yes, we call that flip flops, or not standing on principles.
 
Obama was for timetables for withdrawing troops from Iraq before he opposed timetables.

Obama was for reducing the size of the US military before he was for increasing the size of the military by 100,000.

Obama was against NAFTA before he was for it.

Obama was against FISA before he voted for it.

Obama was against fighting in the Middle East before he was for increasing US troops in the Middle East.

Obama was against pre-emptive strikes ("the Bush doctrine") before he was for pre-emptive strikes into Pakistan.

The list is long...
 
In other news, Rednecks also seem to be on both sides of an issue....

evenwevehadenough-500x375.jpg


:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
before I click on that video, can you tell me it's relevance to the topic?
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Sure. It is a bit tenuous, but it points in the right direction. Tr991 pretty much covered it. Sen. Obama believes in certain things personally because of his faith, etc. but isn't going to let his religion get in the way of democratic politics.

It's not really flip-flopping. A change of opinion in light of new information is called being reasonable. Standing firm on principles when they don't fit in with reality is irrational and stubborn and leads to a lot of bad decisions.

As an example, I am personally against marriage. I'm not going to do it myself, but I'm not going to tell anyone else that they can't do it.
 
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MDM said:
Sure. It is a bit tenuous, but it points in the right direction. Tr991 pretty much covered it. Sen. Obama believes in certain things personally because of his faith, etc. but isn't going to let his religion get in the way of democratic politics.

It's not really flip-flopping. A change of opinion in light of new information is called being reasonable. Standing firm on principles when they don't fit in with reality is irrational and stubborn and leads to a lot of bad decisions.
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So democratic principles are against gay marriage now?
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
So democratic principles are against gay marriage now?
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Excuse me?

Not sure where you got that, and I can tell already that if I try to continue a discussion of this with you it will get rather silly. I'm not going to play your game.

I'll attempt to clear up whatever that was that you said and then I'm out.

I didn't say anything about democratic principles. I said that Sen. Obama's personal beliefs (against gay marriage because of his religion) are not going to make him enforce his beliefs on others, he would rather let democratic politics determine the laws in this country.

If that's not clear enough. I'm sorry.
 
MDM said:
Excuse me?

Not sure where you got that, and I can tell already that if I try to continue a discussion of this with you it will get rather silly. I'm not going to play your game.

I'll attempt to clear up whatever that was that you said and then I'm out.

I didn't say anything about democratic principles. I said that Sen. Obama's personal beliefs (against gay marriage because of his religion) are not going to make him enforce his beliefs on others, he would rather let democratic politics determine the laws in this country.

If that's not clear enough. I'm sorry.
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So Obama is against gay marriage because of his religion?


Can you back that up?
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
So Obama is against gay marriage because of his religion?


Can you back that up?
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No, I'm sorry. That is an assumption on my part. I don't know where else he would get such a personal value. It's almost my bed-time and fatigue is making me a bit sloppy. I should have been more careful in the wording to not make it appear as fact.

The point is that whether it is his religious beliefs, social upbringing, or arbitrarily chosen definition, ... blah blah blah, ..

sorry, I'm too tired to continue in a coherent fashion, so I'll come back later (if needed) when I've had more rest. I'm sure someone else can pick up where I left off.
 
MDM said:
No, I'm sorry. That is an assumption on my part. I don't know where else he would get such a personal value. It's almost my bed-time and fatigue is making me a bit sloppy. I should have been more careful in the wording to not make it appear as fact.

The point is that whether it is his religious beliefs, social upbringing, or arbitrarily chosen definition, ... blah blah blah, ..

sorry, I'm too tired to continue in a coherent fashion, so I'll come back later (if needed) when I've had more rest. I'm sure someone else can pick up where I left off.
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:lol: get some rest grumpy. ;)
 
Tr991 said:
I believe the point of posting the video is to illustrate that you can hold true to a set of beliefs on personal level, while still supporting legislation that may be in conflict with those same beliefs.
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Which is how things should be done, imo.

If I were to become pregnant the only situation in which I'd consider getting an abortion would be if my health were in jeopardy (even by rape I wouldn't consider it unless under the previously noted circumstance), and I'm politically pro-choice. It's not flip-flopping; it's taking into consideration other people in the country and what their rights are. Just because I never plan on exercising that right doesn't mean I should revoke it from everyone else.

From the sound of that video that is Obama's stance: he doesn't feel/believe people should get same sex marriage for whatever reason, but he knows it's their right to be married in the eyes of the government.

from the Political Radar: Obama Says He Is Against Same-Sex Marriage But Also Against Ending Its Practice In Calif.
"I've stated my opposition to this. I think it's unnecessary," Obama told MTV. "I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not in favor of gay marriage. But when you start playing around with constitutions, just to prohibit somebody who cares about another person, it just seems to me that's not what America's about."
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Tr991 said:
I believe the point of posting the video is to illustrate that you can hold true to a set of beliefs on personal level, while still supporting legislation that may be in conflict with those same beliefs.
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Ironic that such generosity ain't granted to Palin by many Obama supporters, Democrats, or the media.

Hell, such a courtesy was not extended to Bush in 00 or 04.

In both instances we were/have been assured by the Democrats and the media that Bush and/or Palin have and would continue to push their personal views on us to ban abortion, ban stem cell research, ban books, etc., etc.

I guess, though, when you're The One, you're entitled to that courtesy, huh?
 
JMak said:
Ironic that such generosity ain't granted to Palin by many Obama supporters, Democrats, or the media.

Hell, such a courtesy was not extended to Bush in 00 or 04.

In both instances we were/have been assured by the Democrats and the media that Bush and/or Palin have and would continue to push their personal views on us to ban abortion, ban stem cell research, ban books, etc., etc.

I guess, though, when you're The One, you're entitled to that courtesy, huh?
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Exactly the point.
 
Undisclosed said:
It's not flip-flopping; it's taking into consideration other people in the country and what their rights are.
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Even if such a "right" does not exist??

Just because I never plan on exercising that right doesn't mean I should revoke it from everyone else.
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This is a democracy is it not? I mean, public policy here works via a democratic process where individuals cast their votes (or vote for political candidates) to allow or prohibit things from occuring.
 
JMak said:
Even if such a "right" does not exist??



This is a democracy is it not? I mean, public policy here works via a democratic process where individuals cast their votes (or vote for political candidates) to allow or prohibit things from occuring.
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unless the courts decide against it...majority rules as long as what they want is not in violation of the constitution...
 
JMak said:
Ironic that such generosity ain't granted to Palin by many Obama supporters, Democrats, or the media.
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That's because she's stated she WANTS to see creationism taught in schools and abstinence only programs. These are things she wants to FORCE on people.
 
TheNextEra said:
That's because she's stated she WANTS to see creationism taught in schools and abstinence only programs. These are things she wants to FORCE on people.
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Source please?
 
TheNextEra said:
That's because she's stated she WANTS to see creationism taught in schools and abstinence only programs. These are things she wants to FORCE on people.
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I think she has said that she would prefer to see creationism and abstinence taught in public schools.

But, how do you get from mere statements to an actual effort to "force" that on people?

In fact, I think we have heard Palin explicitly say that despite these education preferences that she would not and has not pursued legislation mandating such instruction.

So, what have you got besides the DNC talking points that you got either from the DU or Kos?
 
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