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Obama DOJ Asks Court to Grant Immunity to George W. Bush For Iraq War

Should Immunity Be Granted For Aggressive War?

  • YES!

    Votes: 3 30.0%
  • NO!

    Votes: 6 60.0%
  • Other! (explain please)

    Votes: 1 10.0%

  • Total voters
    10
  • Poll closed .

DaveFagan

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Obama DOJ Asks Court to Grant Immunity to George W. Bush For Iraq War | War Is A Crime .org

"In court papers filed today (PDF), the United States Department of Justice requested that George W. Bush, Richard Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice and Paul Wolfowitz be granted procedural immunity in a case alleging that they planned and waged the Iraq War in violation of international law."

"Plaintiff Sundus Shaker Saleh, an Iraqi single mother and refugee now living in Jordan, filed a complaint in March 2013 in San Francisco federal court alleging that the planning and waging of the war constituted a “crime of aggression” against Iraq, a legal theory that was used by the Nuremberg Tribunal to convict Nazi war criminals after World War II." "Richard Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz began planning the Iraq War in 1998 through their involvement with the “Project for the New American Century,” a Washington DC non-profit that advocated for the military overthrow of Saddam Hussein.-- Once they came to power, Saleh alleges that Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz convinced other Bush officials to invade Iraq by using 9/11 as an excuse to mislead and scare the American public into supporting a war."


Obama DOJ Asks Court to Grant Immunity to George W. Bush For Iraq War | War Is A Crime .org

Is this a reasonable case?

Is the premise of the case logical and legal?

Was it an aggression because it was an invasion of a Country that presented no threat?

Does this suit being filed by a person directly damaged by the war add credibility?

Would you suspect lack of a fair trial because of politics in this matter?
 
Last edited:

Binary_Digit

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If they did nothing wrong then they shouldn't need immunity.

However:

Lie 1: Evidence of a link between Hussein and al'Qaeda was "overwhelming." - Dick Cheney
Lie 2: Reports of mobile chemical weapons facilities came from a "solid source." - Colin Powell
Lie 3: Aluminum tubes were "really only suited" for nuclear enrichment. - Condoleeza Rice.

The reasons for diverting from Afghanistan and going into Iraq were exaggerated at best, and fabricated at worst, and those who are responsible for this should absolutely be held accountable.
 

Ikari

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Ahhh just the establishment protecting itself is all. And some people can delude themselves into thinking that there is a difference between Republicans and Democrats.
 

Jetboogieman

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Ahhh just the establishment protecting itself is all. And some people can delude themselves into thinking that there is a difference between Republicans and Democrats.
That's when you know you've got a true partisan.

The idiots on this board that fully take the republican or democrat side and think their party is the harbingers of truth and justice and the other, evil scum who are ruining the country.

When you realize they're both the latter, you have reached enlightenment.
 

davidtaylorjr

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Obama DOJ Asks Court to Grant Immunity to George W. Bush For Iraq War | War Is A Crime .org

"In court papers filed today (PDF), the United States Department of Justice requested that George W. Bush, Richard Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice and Paul Wolfowitz be granted procedural immunity in a case alleging that they planned and waged the Iraq War in violation of international law."

"Plaintiff Sundus Shaker Saleh, an Iraqi single mother and refugee now living in Jordan, filed a complaint in March 2013 in San Francisco federal court alleging that the planning and waging of the war constituted a “crime of aggression” against Iraq, a legal theory that was used by the Nuremberg Tribunal to convict Nazi war criminals after World War II." "Richard Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz began planning the Iraq War in 1998 through their involvement with the “Project for the New American Century,” a Washington DC non-profit that advocated for the military overthrow of Saddam Hussein.-- Once they came to power, Saleh alleges that Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz convinced other Bush officials to invade Iraq by using 9/11 as an excuse to mislead and scare the American public into supporting a war."


Obama DOJ Asks Court to Grant Immunity to George W. Bush For Iraq War | War Is A Crime .org

Is this a reasonable case?

Is the premise of the case logical and legal?

Was it an aggression because it was an invasion of a Country that presented no threat?

Does this suit being filed by a person directly damaged by the war add credibility?

Would you suspect lack of a fair trial because of politics in this matter?
No, not a reasonable case.
 

tech30528

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Of course he did. He has to clear the previous administration if he expects to be cleared of his own indiscretions.
 

soot

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Is this a reasonable case?

I think the "evidence" that she'd need in order to prove it will be almost impossible to come by but it's certainly not the most friviolus thing I've ever heard.

Is the premise of the case logical and legal?

I think it's reasonable. I don't know enough about the law to say that her bringing the case is, strictly speakin, illegal.

Was it an aggression because it was an invasion of a Country that presented no threat?

Yes.

The argument that "the intelligence said otherwise" (that there was a threat) only holds so much water.

Clearly mistakes were made, numerous, sometimes nearly unforgivable mistakes. Does that mitigate the issue? I dunno. If so, how far?

If I have no intention to kill your kid by running over him/her in my car, but I "make the mistake" of driving 75 MPH in a school zone does my lack of murderous intent mitigate the situation to the point that no crime has occured?

Clearly not.

Does this suit being filed by a person directly damaged by the war add credibility?

I would hazard to guess that the overwelming majority of lawsuits are brought by folks who have a vested interest (have been wronged or damaged in some way) in seeing (what they consider to be) justice done.

I don't think it adds to or detracts from "credibility".

I think it's pretty much par for the course.

Besides, a lawsuit should be judged on the merit of the facts presented. The credibility of the plantif means little if the facts bear out the allegations.

Would you suspect lack of a fair trial because of politics in this matter?

I wouldn't suspect it.

I'd guarantee it.
 

Painter

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Yes to Immunity. (Or simply let the issue go, without a need for immunity)

I view Bush as a war criminal.
But even worse, I view Bush as a man who lied to and tricked an entire Nation of people. A traitor to America. A mass murderer.
So often we focus only on the lies and only on our own troops that we lost. But there is also the loss of over 100,000 to 1,000,000 Iraqi men, women, and children.

Before Bush I was a hard line Republican. I had my eyes wide shut and my mind closed. 911 opened my eyes, and Bush's actions to follow... opened my mind.

With this having been said, I am still very much against prosecuting Bush in any way.
Sure, it would be justice. It would be the honorable and right thing to do.
But sometimes the right thing is not the best thing.
To prosecute Bush would be to tear our Nation to shreds.
We are already barely keeping it together. The Right and the Left hate and despise each other like never before. Certainly far worse than the Civil War Era.
Honest debate is completely impossible. Neither side even accepts the truth. Neither side can seem to even communicate, as both sides view the world so differently.

To try and prosecute Bush would be to guarantee that we tear each other apart, and end this Nation.
Sometimes what is right just does not matter, and what is necessary is all that remains.
Time to move on and work towards a better future and not dwell on the past.
 

Grendel

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That's absolutely insane. If they're not guilty of anything, then they don't need immunity. If they are, then they belong in prison. There is no cause to grant them immunity.
 

DaveFagan

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Of course he did. He has to clear the previous administration if he expects to be cleared of his own indiscretions.

Libya is exactly the same story as Iraq. The Nobel Laureate needs to try to keep himself from being indicted by the next Administration. Hypocrisy at its' zenith.
 

rocket88

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Obama DOJ Asks Court to Grant Immunity to George W. Bush For Iraq War | War Is A Crime .org

"In court papers filed today (PDF), the United States Department of Justice requested that George W. Bush, Richard Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice and Paul Wolfowitz be granted procedural immunity in a case alleging that they planned and waged the Iraq War in violation of international law."

"Plaintiff Sundus Shaker Saleh, an Iraqi single mother and refugee now living in Jordan, filed a complaint in March 2013 in San Francisco federal court alleging that the planning and waging of the war constituted a “crime of aggression” against Iraq, a legal theory that was used by the Nuremberg Tribunal to convict Nazi war criminals after World War II." "Richard Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz began planning the Iraq War in 1998 through their involvement with the “Project for the New American Century,” a Washington DC non-profit that advocated for the military overthrow of Saddam Hussein.-- Once they came to power, Saleh alleges that Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz convinced other Bush officials to invade Iraq by using 9/11 as an excuse to mislead and scare the American public into supporting a war."


Obama DOJ Asks Court to Grant Immunity to George W. Bush For Iraq War | War Is A Crime .org

Is this a reasonable case?

Is the premise of the case logical and legal?

Was it an aggression because it was an invasion of a Country that presented no threat?

Does this suit being filed by a person directly damaged by the war add credibility?

Would you suspect lack of a fair trial because of politics in this matter?
I'd favor granting members of the Bush administration immunity if they really want to find out the truth about it. But there's no investigation, so something else is going on.
 

DaveFagan

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I'd favor granting members of the Bush administration immunity if they really want to find out the truth about it. But there's no investigation, so something else is going on.
I think it is clearly a case of CYA (cover your ass) going on. Killing Qaddafi and destabilizing Libya is/was a war crime. The US acts like these results are not the agenda, but I think they have exactly the results they want, including Egypt. Qaddafi was a strong, stabilizing influence for Africa, but he was teaching Africans how to not sell out to Western Corporations and that is what got him killed. Then there is the OIL. Big co inky dink that these wars are in OIL assets. Unthinkable that Big Energy corporations would be the powers behind the throne, eh? In a Nation all about business, we're not supposed to discuss the business of war. This Nation has thrived on War, or at least its' Military/Industrial/Corporate complex has. I suspect it's just about good marketing, promotion, etc. That'd be about promoting WARS, don't you think?
 

Samhain

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They are requesting this because the administration has made the statement, in regards to Syria, that the CIC is responsible for all actions of his military.
 
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