Morning!
Just to again point out, I don't think that we should stick our head in the sand. I think that we need to fight ISIS with every available weapon. And our greatest weapon is to drive a clear wedge between Islam and ISIS. By doing that, we provide the political cover to the Islamic powers in the region to also fight ISIS.
As to the point about Islam being a religion based on murder and conquest, sure it's been that. It's also been the center of culture, tolerance, and intellectualism. Islam is a Canaanite religion; hence the violence and xenophobia. This is where we get the parts of the Bible we generally ignore now; eg the genocide of the Ammonites (Deut 3:24), the murder of everyone in a city if worshippers of another god are found there (Deut 13:15) and many many more.
It's pretty easy to go back through Jewish, Islamic, and Christian history and find all sorts of terrible things done in the name of those religions. It's also possible to find all sorts of amazing things that have been done in the name of that religion. Take Christianity. On one hand we have the Crusades, the Inquisition, the witch hunts, hundreds of years of wars between Catholics and Protestants, etc.. On the other hand we have Trappist ales. So on the whole..Christianity is probably a net win.
The point is that declaring war on a religion doesn't work. It's like putting water on an oil fire. Force doesn't convince people that their way is wrong, it reinforces their resolve to fight. This isn't about ISIS, it's about the rest of the Islamic world. ISIS is going to fight to the death, and the Administration is working to oblige.
Only a fool fights more people than they have to. This is about the people who are sympathetic to ISIS, but don't approve of their methods. And there are a TON of them. If we drive them towards ISIS then we will create a permanent Islamic Extremist base in the region. If we accept them and encourage the voices of moderation then we will cut off ISIS's source of recruits. We can then purge their cancer from the region.
You could have given the names of many democracies but never have I seen anyone claim that Israel and Pakistan are similar. Or perhaps you meant to say Ireland and Pakistan?You asked for a democracy, I gave you one.
What Islam was is of little concern to what Islam is now.Morning!
Just to again point out, I don't think that we should stick our head in the sand. I think that we need to fight ISIS with every available weapon. And our greatest weapon is to drive a clear wedge between Islam and ISIS. By doing that, we provide the political cover to the Islamic powers in the region to also fight ISIS.
As to the point about Islam being a religion based on murder and conquest, sure it's been that. It's also been the center of culture, tolerance, and intellectualism. Islam is a Canaanite religion; hence the violence and xenophobia. This is where we get the parts of the Bible we generally ignore now; eg the genocide of the Ammonites (Deut 3:24), the murder of everyone in a city if worshippers of another god are found there (Deut 13:15) and many many more.
It's pretty easy to go back through Jewish, Islamic, and Christian history and find all sorts of terrible things done in the name of those religions. It's also possible to find all sorts of amazing things that have been done in the name of that religion. Take Christianity. On one hand we have the Crusades, the Inquisition, the witch hunts, hundreds of years of wars between Catholics and Protestants, etc.. On the other hand we have Trappist ales. So on the whole..Christianity is probably a net win.
The point is that declaring war on a religion doesn't work. It's like putting water on an oil fire. Force doesn't convince people that their way is wrong, it reinforces their resolve to fight. This isn't about ISIS, it's about the rest of the Islamic world. ISIS is going to fight to the death, and the Administration is working to oblige.
Only a fool fights more people than they have to. This is about the people who are sympathetic to ISIS, but don't approve of their methods. And there are a TON of them. If we drive them towards ISIS then we will create a permanent Islamic Extremist base in the region. If we accept them and encourage the voices of moderation then we will cut off ISIS's source of recruits. We can then purge their cancer from the region.
You could have given the names of many democracies but never have I seen anyone claim that Israel and Pakistan are similar. Or perhaps you meant to say Ireland and Pakistan?
Morning!
Just to again point out, I don't think that we should stick our head in the sand. I think that we need to fight ISIS with every available weapon. And our greatest weapon is to drive a clear wedge between Islam and ISIS. By doing that, we provide the political cover to the Islamic powers in the region to also fight ISIS.
As to the point about Islam being a religion based on murder and conquest, sure it's been that. It's also been the center of culture, tolerance, and intellectualism. Islam is a Canaanite religion; hence the violence and xenophobia. This is where we get the parts of the Bible we generally ignore now; eg the genocide of the Ammonites (Deut 3:24), the murder of everyone in a city if worshippers of another god are found there (Deut 13:15) and many many more.
It's pretty easy to go back through Jewish, Islamic, and Christian history and find all sorts of terrible things done in the name of those religions. It's also possible to find all sorts of amazing things that have been done in the name of that religion. Take Christianity. On one hand we have the Crusades, the Inquisition, the witch hunts, hundreds of years of wars between Catholics and Protestants, etc.. On the other hand we have Trappist ales. So on the whole..Christianity is probably a net win.
The point is that declaring war on a religion doesn't work. It's like putting water on an oil fire. Force doesn't convince people that their way is wrong, it reinforces their resolve to fight. This isn't about ISIS, it's about the rest of the Islamic world. ISIS is going to fight to the death, and the Administration is working to oblige.
Only a fool fights more people than they have to. This is about the people who are sympathetic to ISIS, but don't approve of their methods. And there are a TON of them. If we drive them towards ISIS then we will create a permanent Islamic Extremist base in the region. If we accept them and encourage the voices of moderation then we will cut off ISIS's source of recruits. We can then purge their cancer from the region.
Comparing stories from centuries before Christ, to today, is false equivalency at its best.
How so? Obviously Christianity is different now, but the religious texts aren't any different. What is different is the aspect of the texts that people focus on. Religions change. That's why I said that Islam is like a knife, you can use it to be productive or you can use it to kill. Like conservatives say, guns don't kill people, people kill people.
That's the lesson we need to take from this. Our actions help direct the focus of Islam. If we attack Islam, Islam will focus on violence and fight back. If we defend Islam from those who'd pervert it, then Islam will moderate. As far as actions go, we're still doing the same thing; ie fighting ISIS. But this is one case where our global rhetoric can help or hurt our cause.
How so? Obviously Christianity is different now, but the religious texts aren't any different. What is different is the aspect of the texts that people focus on. Religions change. That's why I said that Islam is like a knife, you can use it to be productive or you can use it to kill. Like conservatives say, guns don't kill people, people kill people.
That's the lesson we need to take from this. Our actions help direct the focus of Islam. If we attack Islam, Islam will focus on violence and fight back. If we defend Islam from those who'd pervert it, then Islam will moderate. As far as actions go, we're still doing the same thing; ie fighting ISIS. But this is one case where our global rhetoric can help or hurt our cause.
Islam has been focused on violence since its founding...Our actions are irrelevant in their quest.
Grant, see what I mean. 1.6 billion get lumped in with a small minority.
Tough ****....So when the Islamist rail against the "great Satan" in speaking about us, I suppose you think that is our fault too.
Hardly, but that doesn't mean ****. They are here making a false argument that we can respond to.
Oh, so when they lump us all in together then to you "that doesn't mean ****"....And you don't respond to a false argument by trying to kiss their asses.
There's no one here to respond to. Show me one person making that silly argument and I'll talk to them as well. Silly is silly no matter who does it. And it's silly to think we should just throw out random arguments to people not here to respond. It doesn't change the falsehood of your argument.
:roll: Oh please, buy a ticket to Tehran then....One way preferably
Once again, you make no sense at all. Either present evidence of your false claim or admit the error.
I made no error. Your kneejerk reaction is to more often than not blame the US first....That was my point, is it stands. The evidence is all over these boards whenever you type.
That's nonsense. No where did I blame anyone. You made a false statement concerning Islam, making the minority look like the majority. You are factually wrong.
When the majority stands up for reformation, and denunciation of the radical elements within the religion without using lies to mask their support then I'll reconsider...Til then....if you don't like it, too damned bad.
You pay far too little attention then. Most denounce terrorism, live moderate lives, don't commit the horrors the media throws at us, and publicly denounce them. Nut they can't do it enough to satisfy the rabid haters, as truth is not something they are interested in.
Thing is, that you think that Conservatives are terrorists...So, I question your ability to identify them in the first place.
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