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Obama Admin brands criminals 'justice-involved individuals'...

MickeyW

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Obama doesn’t think rapists, armed robbers, drug dealers are criminals.

It’s only May, but I think I’ve found the euphemism of the year: According to Team Obama, criminals should now be declared “justice-involved individuals.”

The neo-Orwellianism comes to us from the bizarre flurry of last-minute diktats, regulations and bone-chilling threats collectively known to fanboys as Obama’s Gorgeous Goodbye.

Obama doesn’t think rapists, armed robbers, drug dealers are criminals | New York Post
 

Beaudreaux

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Obama doesn’t think rapists, armed robbers, drug dealers are criminals.

It’s only May, but I think I’ve found the euphemism of the year: According to Team Obama, criminals should now be declared “justice-involved individuals.”

The neo-Orwellianism comes to us from the bizarre flurry of last-minute diktats, regulations and bone-chilling threats collectively known to fanboys as Obama’s Gorgeous Goodbye.

Obama doesn’t think rapists, armed robbers, drug dealers are criminals | New York Post

Holy crap. I have to admit, I thought this was just some "I hate Obama" thing... again... but WOW, it's true.

Justice-involved individuals???? Holy crap on a cracker.
 

Citizen.Seven

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LMAO. I guess it could have been worse, they could be labeled "law challenged", maybe putting them in the ADA protection sphere. Then a federal case could be made if you refused to hire a convicted rapist.
 

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320px-Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg


The report is specifically talking about educational issues facing people who are involved in the criminal justice system -- a phrase we've used for well over a decade. It is not reclassifying anyone, or introducing a new phrase.

The term "criminal" does not apply, because not everyone who is a criminal is currently involved in the criminal justice system. There are criminals who have not been arrested, who are not in jail, who are not on parole etc. The report is not talking about how to convince organized crime bosses to attend community colleges.

Please, spare us the pointless poutrage.
 

Mr Person

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320px-Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg


The report is specifically talking about educational issues facing people who are involved in the criminal justice system -- a phrase we've used for well over a decade. It is not reclassifying anyone, or introducing a new phrase.

The term "criminal" does not apply, because not everyone who is a criminal is currently involved in the criminal justice system. There are criminals who have not been arrested, who are not in jail, who are not on parole etc. The report is not talking about how to convince organized crime bosses to attend community colleges.

Please, spare us the pointless poutrage.


I fully agree. (And similarly, there are plenty of people who once committed a crime, which could be as insignificant as getting caught with a joint or public intoxication. They are not under any sane definition of the term "criminals" for the rest of their lives.)

I also found myself using that exact picture as my avatar on another site specifically because of having to debunk so many junk attack threads like this, over there. (Since I left, the site died the death it deserved...)
 
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Mr Person

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JANFU

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Obama doesn’t think rapists, armed robbers, drug dealers are criminals.

It’s only May, but I think I’ve found the euphemism of the year: According to Team Obama, criminals should now be declared “justice-involved individuals.”

The neo-Orwellianism comes to us from the bizarre flurry of last-minute diktats, regulations and bone-chilling threats collectively known to fanboys as Obama’s Gorgeous Goodbye.

Obama doesn’t think rapists, armed robbers, drug dealers are criminals | New York Post

Be nice it this was factual- Posts 4,5 and 6 send this to the rubbish bin.
Perhaps you should peruse the report vice the hoopla from the NY Post.
But that would take more time than you wish to invest.
 

Fearandloathing

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Obama doesn’t think rapists, armed robbers, drug dealers are criminals.

It’s only May, but I think I’ve found the euphemism of the year: According to Team Obama, criminals should now be declared “justice-involved individuals.”

The neo-Orwellianism comes to us from the bizarre flurry of last-minute diktats, regulations and bone-chilling threats collectively known to fanboys as Obama’s Gorgeous Goodbye.

Obama doesn’t think rapists, armed robbers, drug dealers are criminals | New York Post



You're ****ting me, right?

Man, this is a way over-reaction to the subject, and disingenuous to say the least.

The man appears to be talking about a specific type of individual.

Further, your use of the word criminal is criminal. A person is only a "criminal" when they have been arrested and CONVICTED. Until that time, under US law, the person is a "suspect". I am always amused when the hard right, so instilled in their "founding fathers" conveniently forget that little tidbit about innocent until proven guilty.

There is a lot of **** Obama will have to carry, and while we watch in some hopelessness a circus act called a presidential election I would say his reference is not among that ****, and people like you need to start paying a little more attention to the real "criminals" in the insurance and banking inmdustries...you know, the guys paying for the election campaign....
 

Caine

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You're ****ting me, right?

Man, this is a way over-reaction to the subject, and disingenuous to say the least.

The man appears to be talking about a specific type of individual.

Further, your use of the word criminal is criminal. A person is only a "criminal" when they have been arrested and CONVICTED. Until that time, under US law, the person is a "suspect". I am always amused when the hard right, so instilled in their "founding fathers" conveniently forget that little tidbit about innocent until proven guilty.

There is a lot of **** Obama will have to carry, and while we watch in some hopelessness a circus act called a presidential election I would say his reference is not among that ****, and people like you need to start paying a little more attention to the real "criminals" in the insurance and banking inmdustries...you know, the guys paying for the election campaign....

I thought you said criminals were people who have actually been arrested and convicted.

Then one paragraph later you accuse anyone and everyone in the insurance and banking industries of being criminals.

What an excellent example of contradicting yourself.
 

Kal'Stang

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Obama doesn’t think rapists, armed robbers, drug dealers are criminals.

It’s only May, but I think I’ve found the euphemism of the year: According to Team Obama, criminals should now be declared “justice-involved individuals.”

The neo-Orwellianism comes to us from the bizarre flurry of last-minute diktats, regulations and bone-chilling threats collectively known to fanboys as Obama’s Gorgeous Goodbye.

Obama doesn’t think rapists, armed robbers, drug dealers are criminals | New York Post

From the actual guide that is linked to in the article:

A number of federal programs address the persistent barriers to successful reentry that justice-involved individuals experience. Efforts have ranged from providing guidance and coordinating federal funding streams to help those who have served their time obtain housing and higher education to enacting measures to ensure that more applicants, including those with prior criminal histories, receive a fair opportunity to compete for employment. Together, these actions are aimed at improving the overall outcomes for individuals who may have come in contact with the justice system by helping them get the education, support, and other opportunities they need to succeed in life, and to build strong and safe communities.

Essentially the guide is about ex-cons. And frankly I support it and the word choice. Once a person has served their time and are released back into society they should no longer be additionally punished by society. That is the main reason that recidivism is so high. Indeed I wonder just how much crime we would actually have if our recidivism wasn't so high due to societies continuing punishment once an ex-con is released from jail/prison.
 

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There will always be the stigma of "felon" regardless of what other pretty words end up being associated with ex-cons. I know a few felons I would trust with my life, grand kids, and my property. I know a few others that I wouldn't spit on if they were on fire.


Are we going to allow arsonists to make fireworks?
Are we going to let pedophiles work in daycare for kids?
Are we going to let murderers become police?
Are we going to let the Bernie Madoff's become financiers?

It will always be case by case, regardless of what pretty labels Obama and his cronies decide to place on ex-cons. The stigma will remain anyways due to the nature of people.
 

Kal'Stang

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There will always be the stigma of "felon" regardless of what other pretty words end up being associated with ex-cons. I know a few felons I would trust with my life, grand kids, and my property. I know a few others that I wouldn't spit on if they were on fire.


Are we going to allow arsonists to make fireworks?
Are we going to let pedophiles work in daycare for kids?
Are we going to let murderers become police?
Are we going to let the Bernie Madoff's become financiers?

It will always be case by case, regardless of what pretty labels Obama and his cronies decide to place on ex-cons. The stigma will remain anyways due to the nature of people.

Not if society changes its thinking. There used to be a stigma of people of different races marrying. That is no longer the case. (used purely as an example of a stigma not remaining due to society changing its thinking)
 

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Not if society changes its thinking. There used to be a stigma of people of different races marrying. That is no longer the case. (used purely as an example of a stigma not remaining due to society changing its thinking)

OK... not to argue, but would you expect me to allow a ex convict pedophile to watch over my 5 year old grand child? Would I be considered a "excon-ophob" for not allowing the pedophile to watch my grand child?
 

Kal'Stang

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OK... not to argue, but would you expect me to allow a ex convict pedophile to watch over my 5 year old grand child? Would I be considered a "excon-ophob" for not allowing the pedophile to watch my grand child?

Nope, I wouldn't. :shrug: However I would also note that pedophilia is a disease of the mind that cannot be cured by any known technology today. (hopefully in the future there will be though) But then I'm also of the mind that due to that they should never be let out into society either. I'm not in favor of letting anyone out into society unless they are completely reformed/cured of whatever problem that they have. This also answers your other examples by the way. I have no problem with a completely reformed/cured arsonist working in a fireworks factory. (some believe that being an arson is a mental disease also). Just have to prove that they are reformed/cured before letting them out of prison. I have no problem with letting a murderer be a cop so long as they are completely reformed. Some murderers are only murderers due to rage issues which can be completely fixed.

So on and so forth. Our system of "justice" needs to be reformed into one of rehabilitation and away from strictly punishment.

Now what about you? Would you care if someone that was in prison due to some small and non-violent reason watched your grandchild if they were completely reformed?
 

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Obama doesn’t think rapists, armed robbers, drug dealers are criminals.

It’s only May, but I think I’ve found the euphemism of the year: According to Team Obama, criminals should now be declared “justice-involved individuals.”

The neo-Orwellianism comes to us from the bizarre flurry of last-minute diktats, regulations and bone-chilling threats collectively known to fanboys as Obama’s Gorgeous Goodbye.

Obama doesn’t think rapists, armed robbers, drug dealers are criminals | New York Post

His daughters probably won't live in a dorm. God forbid a guy, strung out high on drugs would break into their room ( Obama would probably call it entering unannounced), trying to rob the place at gunpoint for enough dollars to get his next fix ( IOW partaking in the riches to be found), but deciding to raping them first (IOW having an ill advised encounter).
 

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Nope, I wouldn't. :shrug: However I would also note that pedophilia is a disease of the mind that cannot be cured by any known technology today. (hopefully in the future there will be though) But then I'm also of the mind that due to that they should never be let out into society either. I'm not in favor of letting anyone out into society unless they are completely reformed/cured of whatever problem that they have. This also answers your other examples by the way. I have no problem with a completely reformed/cured arsonist working in a fireworks factory. (some believe that being an arson is a mental disease also). Just have to prove that they are reformed/cured before letting them out of prison. I have no problem with letting a murderer be a cop so long as they are completely reformed. Some murderers are only murderers due to rage issues which can be completely fixed.

So on and so forth. Our system of "justice" needs to be reformed into one of rehabilitation and away from strictly punishment.

Now what about you? Would you care if someone that was in prison due to some small and non-violent reason watched your grandchild if they were completely reformed?

As I stated in my prior post, I have a few friends that did time. I have one friend that I allow a set of keys to my garage with full of tools and emergency cash stashed in one of the drawers of my tool chests. He dips into the cash every now and then to buy materials for side jobs that he does. He always leaves a note, and I never give it a seconds thought. He was actually convicted of a violent crime and I would trust him with anyone of my grand kids.

I know a few other felons that did time for lesser asinine, non-violent crimes that I wouldn't allow any wheres near my property or family.

Case by case in my opinion.
 

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Not if society changes its thinking. There used to be a stigma of people of different races marrying. That is no longer the case. (used purely as an example of a stigma not remaining due to society changing its thinking)

I am assuming this is an ill worded post, and you aren't comparing rape to interracial marriage.
 

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Case by case in my opinion.

Great point. It seems that we are, too often, trying to paint everything with a very broad brush. Any given administration is making comments that are to serve all and do justice to all. It is just not that simple. What works for some doesn't work for others.
 

Captain Adverse

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OK... not to argue, but would you expect me to allow a ex convict pedophile to watch over my 5 year old grand child? Would I be considered a "excon-ophob" for not allowing the pedophile to watch my grand child?

As long as you recognize that "pedophile" is a subset of "sex offender," and don't automatically brand everyone with a sex offender conviction as unworthy of rehabilitation and re-integration into society without further stigma.

Case by case in my opinion.

THIS is the best answer.
 

Kal'Stang

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As I stated in my prior post, I have a few friends that did time. I have one friend that I allow a set of keys to my garage with full of tools and emergency cash stashed in one of the drawers of my tool chests. He dips into the cash every now and then to buy materials for side jobs that he does. He always leaves a note, and I never give it a seconds thought. He was actually convicted of a violent crime and I would trust him with anyone of my grand kids.

I know a few other felons that did time for lesser asinine, non-violent crimes that I wouldn't allow any wheres near my property or family.

Case by case in my opinion.

Which is exactly what I believe should happen when in regards to letting people out of prison. If on a case by case basis a person has proven that they are reformed then they should be let our of prison, and society at large should not be allowed to continue to punish them.
 

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As long as you recognize that "pedophile" is a subset of "sex offender," and don't automatically brand everyone with a sex offender conviction as unworthy of rehabilitation and re-integration into society without further stigma.

I think a latter post is saying just that. Sex offenders, that includes 20 year olds having sex with an almost legal girlfriend. Another reason why some laws need to be revisited.
 

Kal'Stang

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Bad example Kal, that's all.

No, its was just an example of a stigma that is no longer a stigma. It was not comparing racial marriage to rape or racial marriage to anything. It was simply about "stigma".
 

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I am assuming this is an ill worded post, and you aren't comparing rape to interracial marriage.

Well..."rape" seems to be a matter of interpretation these days. What with all the no means no, and yes means yes, and yes if and only if there was a signed contract until it's made null by any hint of discomfort and then check section C, roman numeral 2....
 
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