NYT: We Were Badly Misled About the Event That Changed Our Lives

[Metric Mouse]

<smh>

That's not even true. Trump wasn't even president for a year with covid claiming victims. And in the first month, it had just started spreading.

I mean, Covid-19 began spreading and claiming victims in... which year? (The answer is in the name.)

And Trump left office in.... which year?

Silly.

That's why we only compare Biden's first year. It's not really fair to Trump, but I don't give a shit, he should have done better.

But so should have Biden. If Biden had only be as bad as Trump, tens of thousands of people would still be alive.

"Anyone who's responsible for that many deaths should not remain as president of the United States of America."

 

[Jagged]

I mean, Covid-19 began spreading and claiming victims in... which year? (The answer is in the name.)

And Trump left office in.... which year?

Silly.

That's why we only compare Biden's first year. It's not really fair to Trump, but I don't give a shit, he should have done better.

But so should have Biden. If Biden had only be as bad as Trump, tens of thousands of people would still be alive.

"Anyone who's responsible for that many deaths should not remain as president of the United States of America."

You must be trolling. You're literally comparing 11 months under Trump with 12 months under Biden.

 

[Metric Mouse]

You must be trolling. You're literally comparing 11 months under Trump with 12 months under Biden.

No, I'm comparing 14 months under Trump to 12 months under Biden.

If you really want to go jan 2020-jan 2021, and jan 2021 to jan 2022, you can.

But it doesn't help you argument.

Why anyone would defend such a deadly response to Covid, I don't know. Are you trolling? Hundreds of thousands of people died from a preventable disease in 2021... why is that a good thing?

 

[j brown's body]

I mean, Covid-19 began spreading and claiming victims in... which year? (The answer is in the name.)

And Trump left office in.... which year?

Silly.

That's why we only compare Biden's first year. It's not really fair to Trump, but I don't give a shit, he should have done better.

But so should have Biden. If Biden had only be as bad as Trump, tens of thousands of people would still be alive.

"Anyone who's responsible for that many deaths should not remain as president of the United States of America."

Hard to believe you're still clinging to this absurd argument.

As I pointed out before, there isn't much variation in the pattern of deaths from one administration to the next. Its not like they were simply low under Trump and went up under Biden. They began and climbed with Trump and continued to climb with Biden.

 

[j brown's body]

Look who was "gaslite."

Trump's 'Chinese Virus' tweet helped lead to rise in racist anti-Asian Twitter content: Study

"Don't attach locations or ethnicity to the disease," the WHO said.

abcnews.go.com

 

[Metric Mouse]

Hard to believe you're still clinging to this absurd argument.

Nah. It's an objective reality. The numbers are what they are.

If someone wanted to argue that Biden was more effective at handling covid because of _____, they could do so. That would be a different discussion.

But to argue he killed fewer people is absurd and not backed by data. And to argue that the number of people who died under his leadership is good or acceptable is an absurd, but obvious, cover for other failed leaders who also were awful.

 

[j brown's body]

Nah. It's an objective reality. The numbers are what they are.

If someone wanted to argue that Biden was more effective at handling covid because of _____, they could do so. That would be a different discussion.

But to argue he killed fewer people is absurd and not backed by data. And to argue that the number of people who died under his leadership is good or acceptable is an absurd, but obvious, cover for other failed leaders who also were awful.

But you aren't just arguing that Trump killed fewer people. You are claiming that Trump acted in a way that resulted in the dying being low and Biden acting in a way that resulted in deaths going up.

The chart disproves this, as it shows that the dying started with and climbed under Trump and continued under Biden. Once the federal government declined to act to stop the virus, it spread. It didn't matter who was president. It would have climbed the same way if Trump had been re-elected - maybe even more since he became anti-vax.

Your argument is also undermined by your inability to point to anything either leader did that caused more deaths, in the case of Biden, or caused less deaths, in the case of Trump.

 

[Metric Mouse]

But you aren't just arguing that Trump killed fewer people. You are claiming that Trump acted in a way that resulted in the dying being low and Biden acting in a way that resulted in deaths going up.

Not at all. Trump didn't do a damn thing right.

Biden just did worse, objectively speaking.

The chart disproves this, as it shows that the dying started with and climbed under Trump and continued under Biden.

Yes. It seems Biden couldn't do better than Trump. It seems unbelievable, considering how poorly Trump did, but your chart shows this to be true.

Once the federal government declined to act to stop the virus, it spread. It didn't matter who was president. It would have climbed the same way if Trump had been re-elected - maybe even more since he became anti-vax.

Maybe.

But Biden could have chose to act. He could have chosen to slow the spread; instead he declined. Maybe Trump 2.0 would have been worse than Trump 1.0 - we will never know.

But we do know Biden was worse than Trump 1.0. This is objectively true.

Your argument is also undermined by your inability to point to anything either leader did that caused more deaths, in the case of Biden, or caused less deaths, in the case of Trump.

So is your argument that neither leader could have slowed the spread of Covid and saved lives?

Really? No matter who was President in 2020, you think covid would have spread the same?

Just trying to understand your argument... because it's wild. it's so weird to find Trump defenders in these threads.

 

[Jagged]

No, I'm comparing 14 months under Trump to 12 months under Biden.

If you really want to go jan 2020-jan 2021, and jan 2021 to jan 2022, you can.

But it doesn't help you argument.

Why anyone would defend such a deadly response to Covid, I don't know. Are you trolling? Hundreds of thousands of people died from a preventable disease in 2021... why is that a good thing?

<laughing>

You're comparing covid death under Trump for 3 months before there was even a single covid death in the U.S..

You're wearing that shovel down to a nub.

 

[j brown's body]

Not at all. Trump didn't do a damn thing right.

Biden just did worse, objectively speaking.


Yes. It seems Biden couldn't do better than Trump. It seems unbelievable, considering how poorly Trump did, but your chart shows this to be true.


Maybe.

But Biden could have chose to act. He could have chosen to slow the spread; instead he declined. Maybe Trump 2.0 would have been worse than Trump 1.0 - we will never know.

But we do know Biden was worse than Trump 1.0. This is objectively true.


So is your argument that neither leader could have slowed the spread of Covid and saved lives?

Really? No matter who was President in 2020, you think covid would have spread the same?

Just trying to understand your argument... because it's wild. it's so weird to find Trump defenders in these threads.

You don't understand the argument that the virus started causing deaths under Trump and simply continued apace with Biden, an argument supported by the chart?

 

[jaeger19]

Biden should have sent hospital ships to states that requested them, and pushed for lock downs and travel restrictions for highly infected areas. At a minimum.

But he didn't, and hundreds of thousands of people died. How does anyone mess up and kill more people than Trump did?

Citations needed
How would he “push for travel restrictions “
Exactly? And enforce them?
Details details.

What states requested military ships? Idaho? lol .

 

[vesper]

Another lunatic fringe thread.

I agree there's lunatic fringe present, but it isn't the thread.

 

[Metric Mouse]

Citations needed
How would he “push for travel restrictions “

Many countries implemented quarantine on areas that had high transmission rates and even in the USA the CDC had travel advisories in 2020...

But probably better to let covid spread and kill more people. After all, a president can't do anything to slow or increase the spread of covid. They are pretty feckless, aren't they?

Exactly? And enforce them?
Details details.

Is your argument that a president can do nothing to stop the spread of Covid?

Is that what you are suggesting? Because over a million Americans died... are you suggesting that the President of the United States is incapable of doing anything during a pandemic?

Or can they take actions to save lives, and these actions can be compared to others?

What states requested military ships? Idaho? lol .

Mississippi and New York.

Guess which state got them? Guess which state was denied?

 

[ataraxia]

Is that what you are suggesting? Because over a million Americans died... are you suggesting that the President of the United States is incapable of doing anything during a pandemic?

Or can they take actions to save lives, and these actions can be compared to others?

Trump voting areas died at 3 times the rate of everyone else during Covid.

People in counties that voted Trump more likely to die from Covid – study

Areas that voted for Trump by at least 60% in November 2020 had 2.7 times the death rate than counties that voted heavily for Biden

www.theguardian.com

In fact, the more Trumpy the voting patterns in a county, the more they died. Quite the price to pay for owning the libs, seems to me.

They looked into the reasons why. Initially, the hypothesis was that it was because these areas were generally older, and so more vulnerable to severe complications from Covid. But when they looked, that did not turn out to be a statistically significant variable. Here is what they found: it was because they live in such a cesspool of misinformation, ignorance, paranoia, and lies.

"We discuss several mechanisms explaining why, to some extent universally, conservatives (the right-wing oriented public) were less likely to follow public health recommendations, were more COVID-19 vaccine-hesitant, and had increased infection rates, poorer health outcomes, and increased mortality compared to left-wing oriented public. The mechanisms explaining the links include the media, trust, cognitions, and values. We conclude the chapter with lessons learned during the COVID-19 pandemic and future research directions on the pandemics' politicization."

http://[URL]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39102194/

__________________________

That's not Biden's fault.

 

[NOLA Dude]

Prosecute Fauci

 

[jaeger19]

Many countries implemented quarantine on areas that had high transmission rates and even in the USA the CDC had travel advisories in 2020...

But probably better to let covid spread and kill more people. After all, a president can't do anything to slow or increase the spread of covid. They are pretty feckless, aren't they?

Is your argument that a president can do nothing to stop the spread of Covid?

Is that what you are suggesting? Because over a million Americans died... are you suggesting that the President of the United States is incapable of doing anything during a pandemic?

Or can they take actions to save lives, and these actions can be compared to others?


Mississippi and New York.

Guess which state got them? Guess which state was denied?

1. Well let’s hear your details . When and where would you have quarantined?. How would Biden have enforced it ? Citations would be nice.

2. Oh no. I want to hear your plans. Especially about quarantines during the Biden administration.

See, trump had a great opportunity to slow the spread of COVID. If he had taken Covid seriously, he would have immediately ramped up production of masks and other ppe. And testing materials.
Then had a coordinated plan with the cdc , tsa, homeland security, port authority etc. to stop and quarantine and test every passenger form overseas , citizen and foreigner.
Instead trump downplayed Covid, and then tweets about travel bans. It was completely uncoordinated and haphazard and resulted in millions of Americans rushing home with Covid then spreading out into the country.

By the time Biden took office we were well past travel bans and quarantines . They would be ineffective and a waste of resources.
The single best way to slow Covid when Biden took office was to speed up the rollout of the vaccine.
“Even before taking office, Biden set an initial target of getting 100 million doses of vaccine administered in his first 100 days. While there was initial uncertainty about this target, it turned out to be an easily achievable goal that took only 58 days.”
That push “was extraordinary,” said Dr. Georges Benjamin, executive director of the American Public Health Association. “The Biden administration increased the number of people to get shots, they increased the number of places to get shots, they reduced the number of disparities for those getting shots,” he said.

Indeed, getting almost half of the U.S. population fully vaccinated in the first six months of 2021 resulted in a huge drop in covid cases, hospitalizations and deaths by early summer.”

The Vaccine Rollout Was a Success. But Events Within and Beyond Biden’s Control Stymied Progress. - KFF Health News

There were variants, vaccine hesitancy and messaging mix-ups. And, despite campaign promises, Biden and his administration sometimes took actions or made statements without waiting for full scientific evidence to back them up.

kffhealthnews.org

And though very unpopular and risky politically. Biden instituted vaccine mandates for healthcare workers, federal employees and large employers “. (Large employer mandate was shot down by the Supreme Court)
And these mandates helped successfully slow COVID spread and reduce death.

3. And with good reason Biden didn’t send the USS Comfort.
When trump sent the comfort to New York it was a huge failure . Logistical issues etc plagued the use of the comfort.
It ended up only seeing 182 patients .

Hospital Ship Comfort Ends NYC COVID-19 Mission After Treating 182 Patients​

Hospital Ship Comfort Ends NYC COVID-19 Mission After Treating 182 Patients - USNI News

After a nearly-month-long mission helping New York in the COVID-19 pandemic fight, hospital ship USNS Comfort (T-AH-20) will leave its temporary berth – likely for its Virginia homeport – and prepare for a possible assignment elsewhere. Medical teams aboard Comfort, which last month quickly...

news.usni.org

Instead of sending the comfort which would be ineffective. Biden sent military personnel to hospitals were they were needed.

DOD sends military personnel to COVID-19 crushed hospitals in Louisiana, Mississippi​

DOD sends military personnel to COVID-19 crushed hospitals in Louisiana, Mississippi

U.S. military medical officers have been deployed to hospitals in Mississippi and Louisiana as both states face devastating surges in COVID-19 hospitalizations and deaths amid low vaccination rates.

www.fox29.com

You are of course welcome to offer your expertise .

 

[Metric Mouse]

Trump voting areas died at 3 times the rate of everyone else during Covid.

Especially after Biden was elected and he denied aid to those areas, which is the dates your study covers...

Pretty predictable.

Would the data change if run from.may 2020 to may 2021?

Might be something you could look at.

Or does a president have no effect upon covid death rates?

 

[Metric Mouse]

1. Well let’s hear your details . When and where would you have quarantined?. How would Biden have enforced it ? Citations would be nice.

He didn't do any of that.

And hundreds of thousands of people died.

He killed more people his first year than Trump.

Unless you are really arguing that Trump and Biden did the best they could, and no deaths are their fault?

Is that your argument?

2. Oh no. I want to hear your plans. Especially about quarantines during the Biden administration.

See, trump had a great opportunity to slow the spread of COVID. If he had taken Covid seriously, he would have immediately ramped up production of masks and other ppe. And testing materials.
Then had a coordinated plan with the cdc , tsa, homeland security, port authority etc. to stop and quarantine and test every passenger form overseas , citizen and foreigner.
Instead trump downplayed Covid, and then tweets about travel bans. It was completely uncoordinated and haphazard and resulted in millions of Americans rushing home with Covid then spreading out into the country.

For sure.

And Biden had all the supplies, vaccines and data he needed.

And still he did **** all and more people died. That's the point.

By the time Biden took office we were well past travel bans and quarantines . They would be ineffective and a waste of resources.

Bending the curve is never a waste of resources. Lock downs and closing schools and mask mandates and vaccine mandates would have been immeasurably effective.

Which is why Biden didn't do any of those until, like... December?

The single best way to slow Covid when Biden took office was to speed up the rollout of the vaccine.
“Even before taking office, Biden set an initial target of getting 100 million doses of vaccine administered in his first 100 days. While there was initial uncertainty about this target, it turned out to be an easily achievable goal that took only 58 days.”

Yes, Biden inherited a vaccine roll out program that far surpassed his goals.

And he then thought he didn't have to do anything else while hundreds of thousands of people died from preventable disease.

(Large employer mandate was shot down by the Supreme Court)
And these mandates helped successfully slow COVID spread and reduce death.

3. And with good reason Biden didn’t send the USS Comfort.
When trump sent the comfort to New York it was a huge failure . Logistical issues etc plagued the use of the comfort.
It ended up only seeing 182 patients .

So it could have saved hundreds of people, at a minimum?

And Biden just said "**** you, die."?

What a complete asshole.

"Anyone who's responsible for that many deaths should not remain as president of the United States of America," - of course he forgot he said this...

 

[jaeger19]

Prosecute Fauci

Gotta love how you whackadoos misrepresent Fauci.

 

[NOLA Dude]

Gotta love how you whackadoos misrepresent Fauci.

We misrepresent him by quoting him?

 

[ataraxia]

Especially after Biden was elected and he denied aid to those areas, which is the dates your study covers...

Pretty predictable.

Would the data change if run from.may 2020 to may 2021?

Might be something you could look at.

Or does a president have no effect upon covid death rates?

They looked very carefully at the reasons why Trump voters died so much more than everyone else during Covid. Was it because, like you say, Biden was elected and he denied aid to those areas? Or was it, as other people suggested, because Trump voting areas tend to be older and so more prone to death and other serious complications from Covid?

All these are interesting hypotheses. So they decided to look. It turned out it was none of those things. They found out it was because people in those areas like to swim in cesspools of bull$hit.

"We discuss several mechanisms explaining why, to some extent universally, conservatives (the right-wing oriented public) were less likely to follow public health recommendations, were more COVID-19 vaccine-hesitant, and had increased infection rates, poorer health outcomes, and increased mortality compared to left-wing oriented public. The mechanisms explaining the links include the media, trust, cognitions, and values. We conclude the chapter with lessons learned during the COVID-19 pandemic and future research directions on the pandemics' politicization."

Politicization of COVID-19 health-protective behaviors in the United States: Longitudinal and cross-national evidence - PMC

During the initial phase of the COVID-19 pandemic, U.S. conservative politicians and the media downplayed the risk of both contracting COVID-19 and the effectiveness of recommended health behaviors. Health behavior theories suggest perceived ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

And you didn't look at my graph: the more percentage people in an area voted for Trump, the more they died. It's like a direct linear correlation. Are you saying that Biden was helping or hurting people based on their percentage Trump vote? Or is it just that the more people played stupid games, the more they died?

 

[Taylor]

Once Biden came into office, the die was cast. Unless you can point to a policy of his that made it worse.

He put all his policy eggs in one basket - illegal mandates that never came to fruition and had the opposite effect as they promoted more vaccine hesitancy.

The only original thing Biden did with any value was free testing kits, but that came way too late to have any significant impact.

 

[ataraxia]

that never came to fruition and had the opposite effect as they promoted more vaccine hesitancy.

If Biden had told MAGA to not forget to wipe their a$$, the stench of those folks would have been detectable from two counties away.

 

[Metric Mouse]

They looked very carefully at the reasons why Trump voters died so much more than everyone else during Covid.

Umm... your study only says May of 2021 and forwards...

Do you think covid only started in the middle of 2021?

Please, the fallacy has already been pointed out.

Was it because, like you say, Biden was elected and he denied aid to those areas? Or was it, as other people suggested, because Trump voting areas tend to be older and so more prone to death and other serious complications from Covid?

Could it be a mix, along with some other factors?

But more people died under Biden's first year... if he specifically failed to help poor, racially diverse, elderly communities to prevent infection or lower death rates, who were experiencing the highest death rates, that is probably not something he should be bragging about...

I'm sure denying aid to these states didn't help...

 

[Jagged]

Especially after Biden was elected and he denied aid to those areas, which is the dates your study covers...

Pretty predictable.

Would the data change if run from.may 2020 to may 2021?

Might be something you could look at.

Or does a president have no effect upon covid death rates?

What aid did he deny those areas?