Numbers for future reference [W:430]

[Black Dog]

I am always open to civil debate. If you are not then you are not

No you don't. If that were the case you would actually have an argument, you don't.

So this makes your posts pretty much worthless for debate or anything else.

 

[vegas giants]

Pure drivel, it's already been shown that imposing an obstacle to suicide drastically reduces the number of suicides. On more than one occasion. Say whatever else you want, but it's pure NRA propaganda to assert that people will still find a way to kill themselves without a gun. A gun is an easy button, available at the exact time you shouldn't have an easy button. It gives you no time to second guess, or consider the consequences. It's not about reducing the ways of killing oneself, its about curbing the impulsive nature of the decision.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/struck-living/201012/can-obstacle-prevent-suicide

This has always been my point, the NRA and its lackeys are all about propaganda. You all will say or do anything, and in the long run people will eventually get tired of your bull****. The NRA endangers gun rights more than any leftwing liberal ever could. People can only listen to the numbers are justifiable so many times, while watching 1 child a week die from a gun because the NRA prevents laws that punish irresponsible people when they don't store their gun properly.

1 child is killed every day from an accidental shooting in the U.S. - National | Globalnews.ca

The numbers are not justifiable, not in the slightest. Because this is human life we're talking about. And if you and the other tiny dicks over at the NRA don't stop preventing people from finding ways to make guns safer, you will find you need another way to compensate when people get tired of your bs and do serious damage to gun rights just to spite you and your whackjob organization.

Excellent post

 

[vegas giants]

No you don't. If that were the case you would actually have an argument, you don't.

So this makes your posts pretty much worthless for debate or anything else.

Thank you for your opinion

 

[Phys251]

Are you implying that guns cause depression, that they are somehow more than just the tool used to successfully end ones life?

Of course I am. That's totally what I said. :roll:

 

[Black Dog]

Excellent post

To bad suicide is not illegal. So it means very little. You can still hang yourself, jump etc.

As for child fatalities from accidents.

Every day, 7 children and teens die from gun violence:

4 are murdered
2 die from suicide

So looks like again gangs in the inner cities are the problem. Are we going to address that or continue to blame a tool and disarm law abiding citizens?

 

[vegas giants]

To bad suicide is not illegal. So it means very little. You can still hang yourself, jump etc.

As for child fatalities from accidents.

Every day, 7 children and teens die from gun violence:

4 are murdered
2 die from suicide

So looks like again gangs in the inner cities are the problem. Are we going to address that or continue to blame a tool and disarm law abiding citizens?

Gun control is one of the ways we try to reduce gum homicides. And we also try to reduce suicide and even detain people against their will that are suicidal

 

[Black Dog]

Gun control is one of the ways we try to reduce gum homicides.

Oh god, not "gum" homicide! Violet Beauregarde, might have something to say about that! j/k lol.

Yes and we have plenty of laws in place. Some are good like background checks. Some were and still are just feel good nonsense that disarms law abiding citizens. Like the disastrous assault weapons ban. Had no effect on crime at all, zero. Instead of making more useless laws, let's enforce the ones we have and make the punishment fit the crime.

And we also try to reduce suicide and even detain people against their will that are suicidal

We only detain for a limited amount of time for observation. Unless they commit themselves we can't hold them without due process. So it's again not a crime.

 

[Rucker61]

1 child is killed every day from an accidental shooting in the U.S. - National | Globalnews.ca

The numbers are not justifiable, not in the slightest. Because this is human life we're talking about. And if you and the other tiny dicks over at the NRA don't stop preventing people from finding ways to make guns safer, you will find you need another way to compensate when people get tired of your bs and do serious damage to gun rights just to spite you and your whackjob organization.

Correct, you can't justify your numbers. CDC reports that 77 children died by unintentional firearm deaths in 2015, compared to over 2200 in motor vehicle accidents.

 

[vegas giants]

Oh god, not "gum" homicide! Violet Beauregarde, might have something to say about that! j/k lol.

Yes and we have plenty of laws in place. Some are good like background checks. Some were and still are just feel good nonsense that disarms law abiding citizens. Like the disastrous assault weapons ban. Had no effect on crime at all, zero. Instead of making more useless laws, let's enforce the ones we have and make the punishment fit the crime.



We only detain for a limited amount of time for observation. Unless they commit themselves we can't hold them without due process. So it's again not a crime.

I never said suicide is a crime. Simply that you can be detained until you are not suicidal.

I am in favor of more enforcement. Also more effective gun control.

 

[BretJ]

Every state has reasonable restrictions and guidance on cars and pools and hammers and hoes and tractors and airplanes, etc. Why not guns?

They do.

 

[BretJ]

You don't get to decide for everyone what is reasonable, engorceable, constitutional, effective or necessary

Did he suggest he did?

 

[BretJ]

I agree completely. You are entitled to your own opinions....but not your own facts

May I suggest you evaluate your own assertions using the same standards you hold others to?

 

[vegas giants]

May I suggest you evaluate your own assertions using the same standards you hold others to?

I always do

 

[JamesBY]

They do.

Thank you, BretJ.

 

[JamesBY]

You obviously have no clue what a straw man is. I did not misrepresent what you posted. It is clear that you feel state's need more gun control laws, is it not? If that is the case, then the ones in place are not enough, correct? You said states have reasonable laws for cars etc, so you feel they are reasonable and did not suggest in any way they need more, unlike guns.

Now this is a yes or no question. Do you feel state's need MORE gun control laws, yes or no.

The strawman fallacy of "t is clear that you feel state's need more gun control laws, is it not?" based on nothing logical from what I wrote is an obvious ploy by Black Dog. I did not suggest that states needed to have more restrictions. I said that states should have reasonable restrictions, and most of them, imo, do.

No more strawman fallacies from you, black dog.

By the way, as an aside, I have not seen you in a long time. So good to read you again!

 

[Rucker61]

I always do

As in when you claimed I used the term banneroid?

 

[JamesBY]

Since I asked you first, and it's your position, perhaps you can address why they are reasonable.

Nope, that is not how it works.

You make an affirmation, you defend it, then I can answer.

 

[BretJ]

I always do

Of course you do....

 

[Rucker61]

Thank you, BretJ.

Note that none of those are Constitutionally protected rights. Note also that there are no limits on purchase or ownership of hammers or hoes.

 

[vegas giants]

As in when you claimed I used the term banneroid?

I apologize for that error

 

[vegas giants]

Of course you do....

Thank you

 

[Rucker61]

Nope, that is not how it works.

You make an affirmation, you defend it, then I can answer.

That's not the case here. Black Dog posted a list of restrictions. You stated that they were reasonable. I asked why you thought they were reasonable. The only affirmation in our exchange was yours.

We can certain debate my contention that a reasonable restriction must be Constitutional, effective, enforceable and would be enforced.

 

[ThoughtEx.]

Correct, you can't justify your numbers. CDC reports that 77 children died by unintentional firearm deaths in 2015, compared to over 2200 in motor vehicle accidents.

I said one a week, and there are 72 weeks in a year. But it's already been established that the CDC has been hobbled concerning data collection on gun deaths. Here's something recent, and clean of the NRA's taint.

Kids and Guns: Shootings Now Third Leading Cause of Death for U.S. Children

Now let's look at your comparison to deaths in auto accidents. Did you know there are laws stating how a child is situated in a car. Laws concerning speed. Laws concerning insurance. Laws concerning sobriety. Laws that punish people who are negligent in an accident. In other words laws intended to make automobiles safer for every party involved directly and indirectly in their operation.

Yet we can't even talk about how to make guns safer for every party directly and indirectly involved in their operation. And where as an accidental death from a car accident is seen as a tragedy, an accidental death from a gun is waived away as a small price to pay for the ability to kill someone whenever you want, under any circumstances you want. Because it's not about home defense, it's been shown time and time again that using a gun in a residential area during a break in harms the neighbors or your own family more often than the burglar.

I actually like guns, I'm just not an NRA sycophant that chooses to believe nothing can be done to make them safer. In other words, I'm extremely anti NRA, because the only way to explain their behavior is if you look at the gun sales every time they scare people into thinking liberals are after their guns. And the more they promote division, the more people have to die needlessly, and the more people who escape punishment for extreme negligence. You can go to jail if you leave your household cleaners out and a child dies from it. But yet you leave your gun out, and a child dies from it, its all peachy keen. It's bull****.

 

[JamesBY]

Note that none of those are Constitutionally protected rights. Note also that there are no limits on purchase or ownership of hammers or hoes.

A Constitutionally protected right is not, once again, absolute.

 

[JamesBY]

That's not the case here. Black Dog posted a list of restrictions. You stated that they were reasonable. I asked why you thought they were reasonable. The only affirmation in our exchange was yours.

We can certain debate my contention that a reasonable restriction must be Constitutional, effective, enforceable and would be enforced.

No we certainly don't have to. I agree that should show us why you disagree with the restrictions.